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Question: Do "hidden nation" units cause tensions?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by Waldtroll, Jul 24, 2008.

  1. Waldtroll

    Waldtroll Chieftain

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    Did anyone playtested if a hidden nation unit causes diplomatic tensions?

    My idea was to use pre placed hidden nation units in a scenario to trigger tensions between different civs.

    I know that I can use the favored/hated government, but I would like to have another option.

    If the answer is yes I would like to know
    1. If it matters how many hn-units there are?
    2. If the hn-units have to destroy other units to cause tension?
    3. how long do the tension last?
    4. Does the ai "know" who to blame for?
    5. Does the hn-unit need to be in the others civ's cultural borders or can it be anythere?
    6. Can the hn-unit be an artillery and if yes does it need to do serious damage to cause tensions?

    How does the ai handle these units?
    Would this work:
    A civ has a special recource in one of it's cities. This recource let them build a building only in this city when they reach a special tech. The building produces a special unit that is unmoveable, has a (weak) bombardment, is destroyed after one use (like cruise missiles are), and has hidden nationality.
    Via the citieplacement and the units range I could set up a scenario in that one civ would start a "cold war" against another civ withe a certain tech level, and possible end it with another (by making the building obsolete).

    Another Idea I head was for a Europe1850-19xx Scenario to trigger wars for Alsace-Lorraine between Germany and France.
    A preplaced "Wonder" in let's say Strasbourg gives the French a unmoveable hidden nation Artillery every soandso turn. By the time they get a nice stock of this unit and the Germans get pissed of more and more, till they start a war.
    If the Germans are able to take Strasbourg an make peace the Wonder will start producing the unit for the Germans and France will be pissed of by the time and start a new War. This would only end if the Wonder goes obsolete and the remaining Units are updated to something else or if one of the civs conquers enought terrain that the "hate unit" can't reache any target.

    Well, if anyone tested this already it would be really nice if you share your knowledge.
     
  2. BadKharma

    BadKharma Deity

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    No hidden nationality is just that hidden, which means they do not effect tensions at all because their is no way of knowing what Civilization is responsible.
     
  3. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Super Moderator

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    I'm quite sure that hidden nationality units do cause tension, because the AI knows perfectly well which civ they belong to even when it shouldn't really. Send a bunch of hidden nationality units into the AI's territory and start killing its troops and watch your reputation plummet. I don't know the answers to most of the other questions though, except that the AI really likes hidden nationality units and will use them extensively. Also, the AI can capture cities with hidden nationality units, even though the player can't.
     
  4. BadKharma

    BadKharma Deity

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    I did not notice any change in diplomacy (how other civ's felt towards me when I added HN units. You are correct the AI does love them and can capture cities with them. It really surprised me when I first saw it happen.
     
  5. Derf

    Derf Modular Mushroom

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    They can. I tried giving a few land units hidden nat, and captured cities without a problem.
    The AI didn't like it, but I've never really cared about it all that much.
     
  6. utahjazz7

    utahjazz7 Deity

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    I'm not a big modder or tester, but I have noticed that the AI becomes hostile when you attack with hidden nationality units.

    Or, at least it always seems like they do . . .
     
  7. Tank_Guy#3

    Tank_Guy#3 Lion of Lehistan

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    Yes, I've noticed this as well. The AI truly does love them.
     
  8. DJ Bonebraker

    DJ Bonebraker a.k.a Laura

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    Yes, use of ANY HN unit, ESPECIALLY if you kill any of that nations units (or vice versa if they send HN units into your territory and you kill them all off), their attitude toward you will go bad REALLY fast!
     
  9. T-mun

    T-mun King Numa

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    I've noticed it too. Look at the other nation's feelings before you attack one of its units with a HN unit, and look at the leader afterwards: happy before, angry after. I'm not sure how long this lasts, not too long for 1 unit killed I think. I've tried it with corsair ships, not with land units. Did you notice the AI often protects them with non-HN ships with better defence? You immediately know where they came from!
     
  10. timerover51

    timerover51 Deity

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    I use privateers a lot to check on AI seacoast towns, and they do get real unhappy with me really fast, even though in theory they should not. Nationality is only hidden from the human player.
     
  11. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    Bribe them! Generosity with luxury resources, or older tech strategics for weaker countries, allows a lot of flexibility with "invisible" incursions.
     
  12. timerover51

    timerover51 Deity

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    I have tried bribing them, with gifts of technology and periodically cash. Does not seem to go a whole lot of good.
     
  13. Waldtroll

    Waldtroll Chieftain

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    Does anyone know if the ai uses hn-units against other ai civs, and if the answer is yes if the ai starts fighting with each other because of that?
     
  14. BadKharma

    BadKharma Deity

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    The AI uses hidden nationality inits against other AI Civ's, which is easily evidenced by looking at cities they have captured and yet no war is declared.
     
  15. Spacer One

    Spacer One Avatar subject to change

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    if you mod a HN unit into your game...dont give it capture!...I have mercs if my game from the ancient era on, the AI loves em, but doesnt JUST build em...the cant capture, the AI doesnt love em so much...

    but it definately effects how they treat you...angry as soon as you start the HN attacks...
     
  16. jatibi

    jatibi Warlord

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    If you don't assign 'capture' you can't assign either 'offense' nor 'defense' which makes the unit worthless for the AI. (?!)
     
  17. Spacer One

    Spacer One Avatar subject to change

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    not true at all...in MWNN there are mercenaries...I forget the exact stats, but make up for Capture by giving slightly higher stats, and the AI will build them like crazy...

    They will attack everything but cities, until war is declared, then they can capture...

    Play MWNN if you wanna see...the Merc is available with currency...it was one of the first units I added to MWNN and I have tested it...it does work...
     

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