Question for Christians...

[CurtSibling]

Firstly there are no Christian "Sects" there are christians and then there are not, this has been a misleadance that has only made things worse since the first days of christianity.

As for the request, well, good lord....*sigh* if you accept jesus christ as your lord and savior, you go to heaven, the first man, didnt, so he does not meet requirement one, the second man did, so he meets requirement B. Clairfied?

If I may say so, I find this system you describe to be more like the unfair
concept of a human mind, rather than the law of a benevolent father god.

Wouldn't you agree?

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[CurtSibling]

My grandma is a devout christian and her heaven would be flawed if she knew I was in hell while she was in heaven. (After we're both dead of course)

Could my soul be saved by my grandmother's faith?

According to Poltergeist II, the answer would be yes...!
But it is an interesting question nonetheless.

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[CurtSibling]

In Gods eyes there no worse than eachother, there both sinners, my my, this shouldnt have to be explained a million times, listen, none of these petty talks matter. Youv all heard the word a million times, you chose not to accept it so its time to just move on to someone else, its not like you guys are any deader than you already were. Perf, Curt,peri, Im outi.

So, you are saying that the good deeds and bad deeds have no bearing on the afterlife?

Jew-killers like Hitler or Stalin are OK for heaven, as long as they quickly convert before death?

Sounds a bit like 'join our club or die' to me.

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[peyrt]

there are not greater sins, murder is no worse than lying, and lying a thousand times is no more worse than lying once.

That's a ridiculous thing to say. Of course murder is worse than lying. There are many instances in the Bible of some sins being seen as worse than others, eg in Luke 12:47 of servants being beaten with many blows vs few blows. I think the point you're trying to make is that even something as seemingly small as lying is enough to shut you out of a relationship with God, but that's different to saying that all sins are equal.

In all honestly, do you really think your good "deeds" matter to God, I mean sure they matter, but its not like your gonna impress the man upstairs or anything.

There's a whole lot you could write about this, but suffice to say your "deeds" certainly do matter. See Matthew 25:14-30 for example. Good deeds certainly aren't enough to get you into heaven, but they matter.

In terms of the OP's question of who goes to heaven, I think it's too hard to say. We know that God is merciful and just, and that he's a loving God. I don't think I'd be presumptuous enough to speak on God's behalf about anyone's ultimate fate.

 

[classical_hero]

Ther is a flaw wih your question.because there never has been anyone who has confessed on their deathbed their sins. The whole point of being a Christian is not about what you do, by whom you trust in.
Mathew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It is not works that get us into heaven, but simple trust in Jesus. Even the most vile person has a chance with God, there is noone that is unsaveable to God. It is often those that think they are good enough, or deserving of God's salvation who miss the whole point, that noone deserves salvation, but by God's grace he sent his son to die on the Cross and make the path to God possible.

 

[CurtSibling]

But who ultimately decides, humans or gods?

And how did the humans who wrote the bible get informed about the rules?

Does it ever worry you that no-one has ever came back to tell us if the religions are right or wrong about what they decree about heaven/hell?

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[Dong2Long]

Your question rests upon a faulty delimna. None of it reflect Christian theology -- since you are obviously a literate, intelligent human being, then one must conclude that most likely, you just babble, attempt to troll. If not, I will give some help for you with good spirits.

To be saved, one need only accept Jesus Christ as the One who died for your sins. There is no works righteousness in Christianity... which is what infuriates many in the world, incuding yourself, judging from your post. And that's OK, we just need to understand it.

You cannot "do" something to "get" salvation (like your examples do), you cannot "buy" your way to salvation. That is works righteousness.

Salvation (and even faith) is not your status, age, wealth, occupation. All are equal before the Lord, and you are Christian or not by what you accept in your heart, not by offerings, "good works", nice deeds, etc. No person is in a postion to make that judgement ofone's Christian faith, nor would a Christian do so. But people, of course, and not perfect, and so even a Christian can act of emotion, err, sin, etc. That changes not the faith of Christianity, however... as you now doubtless understand.

Putting in a different way, I found this during another active OT thread:

taken from this post in another thead:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and not that of yourselves; it is the gift of God.
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

(ref. Eph 2:8, Rom 10:17, Rom 10:9)

One need not be a Christian to understand language as plain as that, and if a person comprehends it, then it follows that deliberate logic errors (distortions designed to bait/mislead) that began this thread are intentional. If not, then you are now informed and will doubtless not do it again, regardless of faith preference.

is the Reason.

 

[Evil Tyrant]

Hullo!

Today, I have a moral question for posters of the christian variery:
Imagine two people, and decide which one of them gets to enter
'heaven', and which one does not. Here are our two candidates.

(1)
A brilliant surgeon, who spends his life saving the lives of disabled children.
His stance is anti-abortion, but he is an atheist. He dies of old age, without
ever seeking any form of religious guidance or joining christianity.

Does he go to heaven? Or hell?

(2)
A tyrannical dictator, who spends his live conducting a reign of terror. He
has churches pulled down, he persecutes and exterminates all religious people,
including chidren and the disabled. He converts to christianity before he dies.

Does he go to heaven? Or hell?

Tell me what you think. Consider carefully before shooting from the hip.

Other non-religious posters are more than welcome to give opinions too.
But I am interested to see what christians put forth as their judgement.

PS
Let's keep it real.
No crusades or jihads, please.

Don't assume that one is going to heaven and the other is going to hell. Maybe both will go to heaven, or both to hell. This is ultimately up to God, and will be decided by things that only He can see in these two men.

I think both have a fair shot at getting into heaven, but it depends on the sincerity of the dictator's conversion, and on the firmness of the doctor's convictions. If the dictator is truly sorry, and truly wishes to convert, I would say he does have a fair shot at heaven. If he is just trying to cover all his bases and doesn't really give a damn, he probably has a fair shot at going to hell.

Now we come to the doctor. This will likely depend on why the doctor is an Atheist. If he is Atheist because he doesn't like rules or morals, and just wants to do his own thing without interference, he probably has a fair shot at hell. On the other hand, if he is Atheist because he believes it to be the truth, and lives an upright and moral life regardless, I would say he has a fair shot at heaven.

As I understand these things, God can and does forgive people who lead good lives yet follow false teachings, provided they follow these teachings because they think them to be true. The person will have lived his life doing what he believes is the truth, and I doubt God will fault him for doing the best he can with what he knows. But this is all speculation based on what I know about this subject. I am not God, and only He will know for certain where these two are going.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

I will take the liberty of rephrasing the OP:

"One man does what humans consider good, while another accepts God and demonstrates that anyone can be saved in this way. Which one will God favor?"

My grandma is a devout christian and her heaven would be flawed if she knew I was in hell while she was in heaven. (After we're both dead of course)

Could my soul be saved by my grandmother's faith?

No; as far as I know, the saved will not worry about the damned.

Does it ever worry you that no-one has ever came back to tell us if the religions are right or wrong about what they decree about heaven/hell?

About as much as it worries you that God came down from Heaven to personally tell you to repent and you ignored him because you didn't like his tone.

What, you don't think that's the case?

Jesus came back from the dead and continued to preach the same message as before.

 

[Atlas14]

The Bible says #2 goes to heaven, however supposing the Bible as a direct link from God is ridiculous, and thus if God exists, an active God that is, I doubt #2 would have the slightest chance of going to heaven.

 

[puglover]

And why do you think I'll answer your question, Curt? For someone who claims to "put religionists in their place", instead of including anything worthwhile in your posts, you ask questions like a Pharisee, looking only to insult the answer and trap the ones you ask.

 

[CurtSibling]

I will take the liberty of rephrasing the OP:

I never granted you the liberty to change the topic.

I'll let you off with it this time.

"One man does what humans consider good, while another accepts God and demonstrates that anyone can be saved in this way. Which one will God favor?"

So exterminating god's followers is not a thing that your god would take into account?

Sounds to me like the christian church just wants converts, no matter who they are.

No; as far as I know, the saved will not worry about the damned.

What true way is there to know you are saved...It is all human beings telling eah other they are saved.

About as much as it worries you that God came down from Heaven to personally tell you to repent and you ignored him because you didn't like his tone.

That would be zero, since this fantastical event never took place.

Jesus came back from the dead and continued to preach the same message as before.

I am very sceptical about the whole fable of JC, hence my topic is not about that.

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[CurtSibling]

And why do you think I'll answer your question, Curt? For someone who claims to "put religionists in their place", instead of including anything worthwhile in your posts, you ask questions like a Pharisee, looking only to insult the answer and trap the ones you ask.

Someone is in a downer today! I never made it a rule that you had to participate.
So please take your misery elsewhere and don't moan in my thread, Pug.

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[Cheezy the Wiz]

What makes you think beliefs matter either? Why would God care about beliefs and not deeds?

That, my friend, is the main difference between Protestant and Catholic Christianity.

So, you are saying that the good deeds and bad deeds have no bearing on the afterlife?

Jew-killers like Hitler or Stalin are OK for heaven, as long as they quickly convert before death?

Sounds a bit like 'join our club or die' to me.

.

It doesn't matter who you are, or what you did in your life. Jesus Christ died for our sins, he suffered, so that we would not have to. If you accept Him into your heart, and you are truly sorry and repent for what you have done in your life that was against the teachings of the Lord, He will forgive you, and you will be accepted into Heaven.

One last thing to keep in mind: these are not our guidelines and rules, they are His.

 

[Perfection]

Becuase you cant do anything except accept(ha ha!I knew I would do it eventually) Jesus Christ as you lord and savior to get to heaven.Its not like you can find the secret pipe over the brick wall to HEAVEN.

That doesn't answer why God would care about beliefs and not deeds. It merely states that he does. I want to know why.

Ther is a flaw wih your question.because there never has been anyone who has confessed on their deathbed their sins.

How do you know that?

That, my friend, is the main difference between Protestant and Catholic Christianity.

Please elaborate!

 

[Bungholio]

The first guy will go to purgatory, and the second guy depends on what kind of Christian. If hes catholic, he can go to confession and go to heaven. If no he goes to hell.

 

[Gladi]

Jew-killers like Hitler or Stalin are OK for heaven, as long as they quickly convert before death?

Sounds a bit like 'join our club or die' to me.

Bright day
If you accept presumption of christian God, you have to accept his abilities. So he will know if the deathbed confession is a true remorse or a circus of fear.

Plus, why would the surgeon want to go to heaven? He lived well enough without him, surely he can get around without him in death.

EDIT: Bungholio, that quote is not Dante's. It may be Kennedy's (you know the Potus) though.

 

[Bungholio]

EDIT: Bungholio, that quote is not Dante's. It may be Kennedy's (you know the Potus) though.

Thanks! 2134234

 

[bhsup]

With the understand that no man can answer with 100% accuracy, as God alone truly knows the hearts of man, here are my answers:

1 - Hell
2 - Heaven, if his conversion was real

 

[Perfection]

I'm just at a loss to see how anyone could possibly view man #1 to be worthy of Hell. It just seems evil and vindictive.