Question for Christians...

[bhsup]

I'm just at a loss to see how anyone could possibly view man #1 to be worthy of Hell. It just seems evil and vindictive.

Did anyone here say THEY view the man as being worthy of Hell? Take it up with God if you have a problem with it. We play by his rules, not man's.

 

[Gladi]

I'm just at a loss to see how anyone could possibly view man #1 to be worthy of Hell. It just seems evil and vindictive.

Heaven= eternal communion with God. Certainly you would not want him to be subjected to that. It seems evil and vindicative.

 

[Atlas14]

Did anyone here say THEY view the man as being worthy of Hell? Take it up with God if you have a problem with it. We play by his rules, not man's.

Doesn't that reveal anything bad about God's nature to you though?

 

[Gladi]

Doesn't that reveal anything bad about God's nature to you though?

You mean the evilness in giving you a choice?

 

[GenMarshall]

It is not the place for mortal humans to judge who ends up in heaven or hell. The ultamate choice is left to God to decide the two canidate's fate. Christian lay people, Bishops, Deacons, Priests, and Popes do not know the fate of the soul in question. Its not our place to judge who is going to heaven or hell.

(1)
A brilliant surgeon, who spends his life saving the lives of disabled children.
His stance is anti-abortion, but he is an atheist. He dies of old age, without
ever seeking any form of religious guidance or joining christianity.

Does he go to heaven? Or hell?

As the Catechism states within Catholic Theology, thoes by no fault of their own dont recive the Gospel does have a chance for salvation.

Spoiler Catechsim Refarance: CCC 846-848 :

"How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.

'Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.'" - Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848

He does have a chance for salvation, but it not the place for mortal persons to decide who goes to heaven or hell. That is left up to God himself of the fate of this person.

(2)
A tyrannical dictator, who spends his live conducting a reign of terror. He
has churches pulled down, he persecutes and exterminates all religious people,
including chidren and the disabled. He converts to christianity before he dies.

Hmm, History repeating itself? St. Paul at one time persecuted Christians during the Roman times (Phil 3:6). "Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do." The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything" (Acts 9:1–9; c.f. Paul's explanation to King Agrippa, Acts 26, and Galatians 1:13–16).

After St. Paul converted to Christianity, many Christians forgave his past actions of persecuting their bretherans. However St. Paul converted to Christianity normaly (IE. Not done by deathbed conversion). However many people and Christians would view deathbed conversion as hypocrisy. Once again, it is not the place for mortal people to decide on who goes to heaven or hell. It is left up to God to decide the fate of the person in question. Its not our place to judge on these matters.

 

[bhsup]

I personally do not have the audacity to claim any right to judge God's actions as right or wrong. He is our creator, our God, the top dog, however you want to view it.

Even if it's a case of "Do as God says, not as God does", that's perfectly okay because it's God.

 

[Homie]

I think it is funny that posters here put their own morals and "wisdom" above an omniscient and omnipotent being, , seriously, who are likely to be right, YOU guys or God?

 

[JonnyB]

Why should I register?
In order to fully utilize the abilities of this religion, the administrator will probably require that you register as a member. Registration is free, and allows you to do the following:
Go to heaven
Seek Salvation
Edit your posts
Send private messages to God

Set up a 'buddy-list' to quickly see which of your friends are currently saved.
To register, you will need to specify a church and bible, and a valid email address.

If you are under the age of 13, the administrator may require that a parent or guardian provides consent before allowing you to complete the baptism process. More information about this is available during the registration process.

 

[Homie]

BTW, I recommend reading St. Thomas Aquinas, a great Christian philosopher. He brings up how God's wisdow is above ours, and that the human intellect is not great enough to understand God and His plans/judgements. Of course the scriptures also say the same thing, so Thomas isn't just making this up, he backes it up with reason and scripture.

 

[Perfection]

I personally do not have the audacity to claim any right to judge God's actions as right or wrong. He is our creator, our God, the top dog, however you want to view it.

How can you trust God if you cannot judge him?

 

[Atlas14]

I personally do not have the audacity to claim any right to judge God's actions as right or wrong. He is our creator, our God, the top dog, however you want to view it.

Even if it's a case of "Do as God says, not as God does", that's perfectly okay because it's God.

Surely God's standards can come into conflict with our humanly standards though. If God said to kill all the Jews, would you do it because God certainly knows what is right and wrong? Where do we draw the line between human standards and God's standards? If God doesn't allow person#1 into heaven yet allows person#2, that is just plain ridiculousness. Who is God to treat earthly life like a piece of crap when he himself supposedly created it?

 

[Homie]

Seems like CivGeneral and Agent beat me to it, good job guys.

 

[bhsup]

How can you trust God if you cannot judge him?

You got me stumped here. I don't even know where to begin to try to answer this one.

 

[Atlas14]

You mean the evilness in giving you a choice?

The choice to be a good person like #1 and then find out it was all for nothing just because God did not advertise himself well enough to make his existance a certainty?

 

[Homie]

If God doesn't allow person#1 into heaven yet allows person#2, that is just plain ridiculousness.

In our limited understand it is, but in God's infinte wisdom it is not. I can tell you that some math stuff seems to be ridiculous to me, but to Perfection it probably makes perfect sense.

 

[Red Door]

1 goes to heaven and 2 goes to hell.

 

[Homie]

How can you trust God if you cannot judge him?

Why do I need to be able to judge Him to trust Him? I don't think that follows.

 

[Atlas14]

In our limited understand it is, but in God's infinte wisdom it is not. I can tell you that some math stuff seems to be ridiculous to me, but to Perfection it probably makes perfect sense.

Limited understanding? I think God would be making it quite clear which type of life he favors when admitting #2 and not #1.

 

[Perfection]

Why do I need to be able to judge Him to trust Him? I don't think that follows.

Because if you cannot tell if He's good or evil then there's no legitimate reason to trust Him.

 

[El_Machinae]

Why do I need to be able to judge Him to trust Him? I don't think that follows.

In order to 'trust' someone, you need to have criteria that would betray and fulfill that trust. You need to be able to say 'I trust God until 'X''.

That said, most Christians are willing to say that they'll trust God until the afterlife. If they die and find themselves being trussed up as target dummies in Valhalla, they'd feel betrayed.