question of fascist gov't

[Borderline]

playing monarch, pangea as the ottomans, its 1762 AD. i looked at my military advisor screen, and when through each of the AIs, and all but one was running fascism.

https://i.imgur.com/atCYvVs.jpg

i'm looking at the description for fascism, it and looks quite impressive. 200% worker effiency compared to 150% for democracy, corruption is only a nuisance, no war weariness, and unit support 4/7/10, which by close to endgame you will have a lot of metropolis.

but:

'your cities lose pop points upon a change to a fascist gov't. just how drastic is this?

also, newly conquered cities lost population and don't generate culture until a popular majority have been assimilated. for a metropolis or even a city size, this would take forever. and im assuming since it doesn't generate culture it will more easily be culture flipped?

is the general consensus to just raze the building and prop up your own settler? would kinda suck if it had any wonders in it though.

 

[justanick]

'your cities lose pop points upon a change to a fascist gov't. just how drastic is this?

Drastic enough to prefer communism over fascism. Without that penalty fascism would have a decent chance to be superior over communism in the short run. Communism is superior in the long run due to lower corruption.

In terms of corruption despotism is a lot worse than monarchy and feudalism which a bit worse than republic and facism which are a bit worse than democracy which still is a lot worse than communism, at least once you have a decent sized empire and couthouses everywhere.

also, newly conquered cities lost population and don't generate culture until a popular majority have been assimilated. for a metropolis or even a city size, this would take forever. and im assuming since it doesn't generate culture it will more easily be culture flipped?

The later would not be changed much if it were producing culture. For flipping global culture counts. Local culture only counts in so far as local culture being inferior increases chances for flipping by a factor of 2, but as that cannot be changed in the short run it does not really matter. That is except for the amount of tiles in the 20 tiles around the city tile that the town could use. So there is a real disadvantage for fascism.

The underlying assumption of 200% worker efficiency is that you raze every city because the risk of flipping is too high. The gained slaves will be as effective as regular workers in republic, but free of any unit support.

is the general consensus to just raze the building and prop up your own settler? would kinda suck if it had any wonders in it though.

In that case you can keep the city but whip away the population, till the amount of foreign citizens is down to say 5 which will be less than your own citizens once it grows back to size 11+. Be aware that the discount from whipping only reduces by 1 every 20 turns, so keep whipping to a reasonable minimum.

Republic and fascism convert foreign cizizens with a chance of 2% per turn, democracy and communism do it at 4% per turn. Feadalism is in between with 3% per turn.

 

[Borderline]

thanks for the very detailed reply!!

In terms of corruption despotism is a lot worse than monarchy and feudalism which a bit worse than republic and facism which are a bit worse than democracy which still is a lot worse than communism

corruption - : high, problematic, nuisance, low, communal

i think thats how the ordering is correct me if im wrong though.

so from highest to lowest corruption is this the order? and the magnitude between them:
despotism ---------------- monarchy/feudalism ----- repub/facism ----- democracy ------------- communism

so going from/to communal and low is a big difference, as well as going from/to problematic and high? and anything between low, nuisance, and problematic the magnitude is small?

For flipping global culture counts. Local culture only counts in so far as local culture being inferior increases chances for flipping by a factor of 2

ok, i get it. how much global culture compared to the AI civ. when you say local culture though, do you mean the proximity of the newly conquered city to other AI civ cities? i am aware that each city has its own culture point which gets tallied up to equal your global culture.

Be aware that the discount from whipping only reduces by 1 every 20 turns, so keep whipping to a reasonable minimum.

i've don't have much whipping experience but i think i read that it makes 1 happy citizen content for 20 turns. also, what is the limit to how many times you can whip your cities? in my experience, it doesn't seem to matter how big my population of my city is.

Republic and fascism convert foreign cizizens with a chance of 2% per turn, democracy and communism do it at 4% per turn. Feadalism is in between with 3% per turn.

wow, thats some concise gameplay mechanics i've never read before anywhere even on this site. where did you get this info? not doubting, just curious.

 

[justanick]

so going from/to communal and low is a big difference, as well as going from/to problematic and high? and anything between low, nuisance, and problematic the magnitude is small?

Depotism has 150% distance corruption, democracy 75% and the remaining ones 100%. Between monarchy and republic there is very small difference in rank corruption.

In the early game distance corruption is more important than rank corruption. But both courthouse and police station cut distance corruption in half, also the amount of cities gets much greater, thus in the long run rank corruption far outweights distance corruption.

Communal corruption works quite differrent. There distance corruption does formally exist, but it does not depend on distance. It is 25% and can be reduced to 12.5% and 6.25%. With communal corruption rank corruption is quite low. This allows great empires to have much less corruption than say a democracy or more relevant a republic. Still those 2 governments with the commerce bonus will likely have more commerce after corruption, which makes them ideal for achieving an advantage in research and it would not be too much of an exaggeration that this is what counts most.

ok, i get it. how much global culture compared to the AI civ. when you say local culture though, do you mean the proximity of the newly conquered city to other AI civ cities? i am aware that each city has its own culture point which gets tallied up to equal your global culture.

A conquered cities keeps record of the culture it had before being conquered. This is likely more than 100 or and often enough more than 1000. So this cannot be exceeded any time soon. By the time it is most citizens will have been assimilated anyway.

Regarding distance only the distance to a capital counts. Also any tile that could be used by your city(the fat cross of 20 tiles) that is in foreign culture counts just like a foreign citizen regarding flipping.

i've don't have much whipping experience but i think i read that it makes 1 happy citizen content for 20 turns. also, what is the limit to how many times you can whip your cities? in my experience, it doesn't seem to matter how big my population of my city is.

There is a limit on how many citizens you can whip away in one whip, but it can be repeated without an upper limit short of running out of population. The real limit is happyness. If you whip away 20 citizens, than you get 20 unhappyness and it is reduced only by 1 every 20 turns. It is best not to be used.

wow, thats some concise gameplay mechanics i've never read before anywhere even on this site. where did you get this info? not doubting, just curious.

The figures are derived from the editor. Evidence from actual gameplay supports them.

 

[Lanzelot]

Another way to reduce the foreign population without getting happiness problems is: build workers (slaves). By chopping a forest or disbanding an outdated unit (e.g. a Longbow or Medieval Inf) you can build a slave every turn. When the town is down to size 1, let it grow back and it will get filled with population of your own nationality, while the slaves will perform useful work all over your empire.

 

[Borderline]

Another way to reduce the foreign population without getting happiness problems is: build workers (slaves). By chopping a forest or disbanding an outdated unit (e.g. a Longbow or Medieval Inf) you can build a slave every turn. When the town is down to size 1, let it grow back and it will get filled with population of your own nationality, while the slaves will perform useful work all over your empire.

sounds like a good strategy i could have used in my last game. i couldn't kill the celts fast enough to reach domination without having my cities revolt or flip. so i'd make peace with them and the newly conquered cities were happy but once i start up the war again with the celts, the celt population cities were pissed again lulz.

 

[justanick]

Settlers are also good for removing population from cities. They will take on 2 citizens and do cost no unit support. Once the enemy civ is eliminated they can savely be used to increase population of existing cities or to found new ones. The later may even be reasonable before that as enemy culture being greater in that new city will not be an issue and revolts are unlikely due to a small amount of foreign citizens.

 

[Theov]

Build workers/slaves to reduce pop and add them by adding your own nationality workers.
Foreign settlers can be made but the city they build will have a foreign population so you also have to add your own population there.
My sig has some info on govs.