Perfection
The Great Head.
If you know something, it's knowledge. Knowledge also has to be true, but just thinking you know something doesn't mean it's true.
Questions About Adam and Eve
- Thread starter Berzerker
- Start date
Let me be a smart arse as well:
With your eyes you can observe movement of the sun on the sky but you cant observe the movement of the earth. Judging from this perspective (of senses) sun moves around the earth.
Later (in evolution of man) with scientifical reason you can calculate distances and positions of cosmic objects and deduce that there is movement of earth around sun. So this is the truth for the developed reason even though the appearance for the senses remains still the same. And of course since reason is superior to senses it becomes accepted truth for all reasoning man.
So you see. Its really simple.
Now about the third part. We have observed matter produce life/senses and mind/reason on this planet. We conclude that through process which we call evolution consciousness come into being from matter. Some may argue that consciousness is present in matter in seed form and is slowly manifested through aeons of time. If this is proven true and also in case evolution has not altogether stopped by some miracle then new pov on cosmic existence may be taken in the future and it could also mean that reasoning intelect is not the highest manifestation/formula of consciousness just like the senses and sensual mind in animals isnt. Then naturaly we will have to revise our understanding of the universe.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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- Jan 31, 2012
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Actually tea, in this working class context, means the meal I eat at tea-time, which is about 6:30 pm.
I did indeed drink - practically nothing but - tea, until about 2 years ago. Now it's just tap water.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
I asked a simple question. If you need all that text to avoid it, that's all the answers I need.
The answer is there...
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
And it seems to agree with me.
So now I'm confused.
Your senses tell you the sun is moving through the sky. The conclusion that it therefore must revolve around the Earth is reasoning. You agree with that, since you realise you had to put the word: "judging" into your statement.
I'm glad we settled that.
So that brings us back to:
Do we also now agree that this is not a correct representation of the senses?
The point is that senses cant give you any other information(truth) then that of suns movement around the earth. It is the reason which contradicts them whith its wider knowledge which is also acquired with the help of senses but analysed by reason - truth of reason.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
If you flew out to above the solar system and observed the sun and the earth and the other planets, your senses would tell you that the earth orbits the sun.
It appears to our senses to not be so from certain points of view, such as by observing this from the surface of the orbiting body itself, Earth.
That's just how context works.
It appears to our senses to not be so from certain points of view, such as by observing this from the surface of the orbiting body itself, Earth.
That's just how context works.
Well if I actually did that I would be pretty famous(or dead) and I probably would have no time to discuss this with you on internetz.... thats also context btw
You are right Warpus.
I rest my case....but for about 7 billion people its still true.
timtofly
One Day
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- 9,445
Not to be too contrarian, but I don't think that you can sense that the planets orbit the sun even from an outside the system view. That is still a mathematical "projection" based on gravitational relationships that it is happening. It would also seem to have to agree with the notion that the solar system is fixed in space, which I don't think modern science holds either.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
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- 26,698
True.
http://solar-center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qsolsysspeed.html
And it's also moving out of the plane of the galaxy. Though its speed in this direction is slowing and it's due to return to the plane any time soon. In the next gazillion years.
http://solar-center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qsolsysspeed.html
And it's also moving out of the plane of the galaxy. Though its speed in this direction is slowing and it's due to return to the plane any time soon. In the next gazillion years.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
You would be able to easily deduce the gravitational centre of the solar system I think, just by looking at it. You're right that you actually wouldn't see the planets move, unless you sat there for weeks and took photos and compared them.
Technically nothing can be fixed in space. But yeah, it wouldn't be easy to stay "fixed" right above the solar system, directly "above" it. The gravitational pull of the sun would start pulling you in. You'd have to be constantly burning up fuel, just to see that the Earth orbits the sun, and sit there wondering why you've found yourself in such an involved hypothetical situation.
Berzerker
Deity
does anyone know if our solar system rotates in the same direction the sun goes around the galactic center?
I assume it would, but is it possible solar systems dont all do the same?
I assume it would, but is it possible solar systems dont all do the same?
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
But is it the senses, or sensory input that tells us that, or the interpretation of it by the brain? The senses simply convey an image to the brain, the interpretation happens separately from them.
Either that or I'm misunderstanding what is meant by "the senses", and it includes interpretation.
About the saying: being fooled by your senses. I always thought that the senses get a bad rep from that saying, since they are passive in the process of being fooled.
Like that rotating Einstein clip. The photons coming through are telling the brain it's looking at the inside. But the brain is so accustomed to seeing the outside, regular faces, that it processes the data from the inside and translates that so a more readily, easier processable image of a regular face.
Link to video.
I am pretty sure you are right. In fact both of them are just using me.
I fully recognized our ability to use technology to enhance our observation. I think you just missed it.Birdjaguar said:
I am sorry to annoy you, but using no caps/caps to differentiate between the lesser truths that science discovers and the greater Truths of religion and theology seems helpful to any discussion.
Perfection
The Great Head.
What is a T Truth and how do you know it is T True?
I like to think about a hierarchy of what is true and is value in the scheme of things.
There are lots of little truths like: it is 5:00 or I like the celery dish I got for my birthday. They can be interesting and important for a short period of time.
Relationship truths are of longer duration and more importance whether they be with people or animals or things you do. For some people such truths can be so significant that they are viewed as truths worthy of a capital T.
Truths about our world are the upper tier of lesser truths. They rarely change in ways that significant affect our lives and mostly function as background to how we live. Gravity, the bonding power of carbon atoms, etc. would fall into this group.
Greater Truths, those worthy of a capital T, are those that we use to direct our actions and frame our lives whether or not they are actually proven true. They are more important than the lesser truths because we typically hold on to them a long time and they have an active influence on individual behavior.Cosmology, theology, Philosophy would fit well here. All the things that people use to set the context of the life and beliefs.
It is a flexible model.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
What a load of bollocks.I am sorry to annoy you, but using no caps/caps to differentiate between the lesser truths that science discovers and the greater Truths of religion and theology seems helpful to any discussion.
