Questions about backstabbing leaders

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by quim, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. quim

    quim Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12
    How to know that a civilization's leader backstabbing me?

    Are there any charasteristics if one leader is backstabbing?


    Who are the leaders that likely to apply backstabbing in civ4? Then, Who is the super backstabber?


    Is a peaceful leader such gandhi ever backstabbing?
     
  2. coanda

    coanda Emperor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,799
    This list may be useful:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=345910

    You know a leader is planning a war because in the diplo. window, if you try to bribe them to declare war on someone, they object with "we have enough on our hands right now" (WHEOOHRN is the forum abbreviation).

    About half the leaders in the game will not start planning war against you at Pleased status; anyone not on that list is a pretty safe neighbor. Note that simply because an AI isn't on that list doesn't make them a totally safe neighbor - that is only the most common way AIs get into wars. If they start planning before you get them to Pleased, getting them there doesn't make them call off the planned war. If you refuse a demand, most AIs have a small chance of immediately planning to attack you. Apostolic Palace resolutions can drag them into wars with you. Some AIs can be bribed to attack at Pleased even though they won't plan such attacks on their own initiative. If you have vassals, your diplo. relations get massively messed with (it's no longer just how they feel about you, it's also how they feel about your vassals, so even someone you are Friendly with might attack you if they hate your vassal).

    The supreme backstabber would probably have to be Catherine. She's the only AI in the game who can be bribed to attack someone who is Friendly to her. Beyond that, anyone in the "Sociopathic" category in that list I linked to is a definitely painful neighbor; any of those neighbors should leave you with three options. 1) Cripple or kill them early, or 2) Use bribes to keep them busy warring other people, so they don't attack you. Your last option is 3) Expect to be attacked at the most inconvenient time and place.

    If you have "random personalities" turned on in game settings, each AI's name gets matched with a random different AI's personality (e.g., you can have the personality of Ragnar but named Gandhi). That's about the only case in which you're likely to see Gandhi backstab you.
     
  3. OneLeggedRhino

    OneLeggedRhino King

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    656
    By the way, if you install BUG mod, it will show a fist on the scorecard when they go through WHEOOH.

    Some leaders will use the "Dagger" AI, and declare without going through WHEOOH mode. Alex is one, and I think Montazuma is another. What I'm saying is, if you rely on seeing the fist for 10 turns or so before a war, you'll get caught with your pants down sometimes. The only way to know is to know the personalities of the leaders.
     
  4. Mylene

    Mylene Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,000
    Location:
    Pangea
    How to know that a civilization's leader backstabbing me?

    Mainly scouting for stacks at your borders, using a good mod like BUG to see the fist when they plan war, and knowing who can plot at pleased (Kossin's signature has a file with a list)


    Are there any charasteristics if one leader is backstabbing?

    It most often happens when you refuse a demand, they can DoW on you even if they are already at war in this case ;)


    Who are the leaders that likely to apply backstabbing in civ4? Then, Who is the super backstabber?

    Besides the warmongers (includes guys like Mehmed or Nappy imo):
    Cathy, JC and Toku are notorious in my games for this. Shaka is the one that has moved a stack all around the map most often :D
    Cathy fits all criterias, expanding fast and being Creative, she creates close borders tension fast and is not big on wonders ~~


    Is a peaceful leader such gandhi ever backstabbing?

    Not really
     
  5. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,578
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Cath is notorious but less known is that peaceful Liz is a dangerous backstabber.
    Actually there is info about backstabbing and other things in xml Civ4LeaderheadInfos, a graphical representation for download can be found here....

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=149388

    Now the info in this file is not always easy to interpret, DanF did a good job, his post is in my sig but it's about general chance/turn that a civ goes into warmode it isn't about dogpile iirc.

    The relevant variable here is iDogPileWarRand i guess. The lower the value the bigger the chance on a backstab. Cath at 25 is very low together with Monty and the lot. But also Liz and mr Roosevelt. There is also probably useful info about war declaration chance after refusing a demand, iDemandRebukedWarProb and the variable above. Now most of what i've written here is what i seem to remember from discussions years ago. Probably iDogPileWarRand is not the only variable governing backstabbing but i do know from discussions in the past that Liz is dangerous in this respect. I'm sure you can get more info about each parameter in the file by searching for it on the forum here.
     
  6. quim

    quim Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12
    Wow, I think catherine isn't a backstabber, thanks mylene for the answers. and thank you coanda and dirk for the links (y). those links really helps me.


    Haha aggresive and Spiritual gandhi :p
     

Share This Page