Questions about early game

[Oberon Blade]

Greetings all.

Been and are a big fan of the Civ franchise and I've played all of them.

Civ 5 Sure looks like it is going to be awesome. So far I am impressed with all the things I read about it, but there are a few questions that I have yet to see answered. Maybe you can help me.

1 In Civ 4 you started with different unit next to your settler depending on what civ you picked. Sometimes it was a worker, most of the times a warrior and sometimes a scout. Is this still the case, or is the warrior always present and you have to produce/train the other units once you place your city?

2. In Civ 4, when you did explore with a warrior and you can across a village there was a chance it would turn out hostile. But if you did move over it with a scout, the outcome was always beneficial to you. Are those mechanics still in game?

3. Wild animals. Are they still roaming the wild and can they cause trouble for your settler if you dont move with an escort?

4. I read a while ago that barbarians evolve as time passes if their home town isn't destroyed. But later words say that they dont really do that, but are as strong in terms of what unit they can build as that of the most advanced civ in civ 5. And that every few turns they spit out a new unit who makes a beline for the nearest city. So their SoC wont expand if they are left alone? And you can't negotiate with them?

5. Resources play a bigger part of the game now. A iron node puts a limit to how many units requireing iron you can have at any given time. Does that mean that no civlization will create a large amount of troops of the same kind, or does it mean that there are plenty of sources of these resources around? Or will the tactics be to create a bunch of non-resource required units and just head on out.

6. 1 unit per tile. I read that 1 unit per type can occupy the same tile only, so no stacking. One of the bigger changes I think. But I also read that you can place a scout/worker or whatnot on a tile to prevent another player to settle on that tile, but how about the Soc of cities? If they place next to that tile, wont your unit get kicked out of their soc so they can work the tile anyway? Or does each city start with no border with workable land?

7. City radious. I seen some screenshots of what I think are a group of cities close together. in earlier Civ games each city had a cross extending out of their city where they could work, if you placed a city to close to another, that would hamper the new city as some tiles were already occupied by another city. How does this function now? I read you can expand to 3 rings around your city, 37 hexes I think, but it will be very difficult. But for arguments sake, lets say you can. Does that mean that each city shouldn't be closer then 6 tiles from eachother to have the best possible workarea?

8. I read that one of the diplomacy options was to tell the other civ, not to settle to close to your city. What is to close? If the answer to question 7 is 3 rings of workable tiles per city at max, does that mean that another civs city placed at 3-6 tiles is to close, but 7 tiles is ok? or is it another large number.

9. expansion. As you now expand in a tile by tile fashion, you pick the tile, or let the AI pick one that it thinks will benefit your city the most. Can we, expand in a straight line, or does that mean that the cities workable tile will always be within a 3 ring radious, but only on those tiles within those 3 rings that you control. So if you have a mine, pasture or something else nice on a 4th tile from a city, the only way to make use of it, is to build a city that have that tile within it's 3 circle radius?

Sorry if these have been answered before, but there are many pages in this forum and I've also looked at the Civ V Analyst page (great place btw) but no answer to these questions have been found.

 

[AriochIV]

1. All civilizations now start the game with the same technology: Agriculture, so the starting options for units are the same for all civilizations. The only exception will be the one civilization that has a unique unit replacement for the Warrior: the Aztec Jaguar.

However, all civilization can now produce a Scout from turn one if they choose, because it no longer has any prerequisite technology.

2. There are no longer any non-beneficial response options from grabbing an Ancient Ruin.

3. No wild animals.

4. As far as we know, Barbarians are purely hostile. Their encampments don't turn into cities, and though their units may progress over time, their intent is still to pillage your improvements and raze your cities. Barbarian encampment don't generate cultural borders.

5. There are a lot of non-resource units, so you can still have a large army, but you may need to have a more diverse army.

6. I don't know what you mean by "SoC". If you mean Zone of Control, as far as we know, only military units exert a zone of control, and only to hostile units.

7. Unless you really think you can grow each city to size 36, then spacing cities 6 tiles apart is probably not ideal.

8. Almost nothing is known about details of the diplomacy system.

9. You can expand in a line if you like, though I think that makes each tile slightly more expensive.

 

[Thormodr]

Welcome Oberon Blade.

I agree. The game is looking awesome for the most part.

 

[Tomice]

Arioch, I think there is a misunderstanding with #9.

AFAIK a city can never work/harvest from a tile that is outside of the 3 rings.
So the answer would be: if you have an iron ressource 4 tiles away from your city, the only way to harvest from those (get the hammers and stuff) is to build another city.

There are very few screens where the border seems to expand outside of the 3 rings, but you surely won't get the hammers from those tiles. maybe you can connect the ressource like in civ4 without actually working it (though I would prefer this being gone for clarity's sake).


Oh, and welcome! Nice first post.

 

[AriochIV]

Arioch, I think there is a misunderstanding with #9.

AFAIK a city can never work/harvest from a tile that is outside of the 3 rings.
So the answer would be: if you have an iron ressource 4 tiles away from your city, the only way to harvest from those (get the hammers and stuff) is to build another city.

Perhaps I misunderstood the original question. You don't have to fill out a ring before expanding farther out from the city, but you're still not allowed (as far as I know) to work tiles beyond 3 hexes.

There are now several examples of cultural borders that extend beyond 3 hexes, but we don't understand yet how that happens.

 

[Thyrwyn]

Also with regards to #9, there are two ways to expand a city's borders:

1) Culture - as your city builds up culture and that culture exceeds certain breakpoints, it will expand one hex at a time. This hex is always chosen by the AI, and generally expands towards hexes/resources which will benefit the city the most. A hex with cattle will be chosen before a hex with mountains, for instance.

2) Gold - at any time, you can spend gold to purchase additional hexes for your city. You can choose which hex to buy, but the cost increases based on distance and likelihood of being attained by culture. A Grassland hex which would complete your second ring, for instance, will be cheaper than a Mountain hex in the third ring.

 

[lietkynes]

But I also read that you can place a scout/worker or whatnot on a tile to prevent another player to settle on that tile

Hmmm, I hope they did it right. Back then when Civ had 1 unit per tile I remember it was too easy to prevent the AI from founding cities surrounding his settler with 3-4 cheap units.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Hmmm, I hope they did it right. Back then when Civ had 1 unit per tile I remember it was too easy to prevent the AI from founding cities surrounding his settler with 3-4 cheap units.

It wasn't 1UPT. Also, military units don't prevent non-enemy civilian units from movement. So you'll need to block rival settler with workers, which doesn't look like a cheap strategy

 

[lietkynes]

It wasn't 1UPT.

I don't remember in what Civ I was doing that, I just remember blocking the AI settler forever with my 3 warriors, but Civ1 had 1upt IIRC

Also, military units don't prevent non-enemy civilian units from movement.

Very good

So you'll need to block rival settler with workers, which doesn't look like a cheap strategy

I hope so, we will see when the games comes out.

 

[vulture2]

I don't remember in what Civ I was doing that, I just remember blocking the AI settler forever with my 3 warriors, but Civ1 had 1upt IIRC

Nope, no civ has has 1 UPT until civ 5.

What Civs 1-3 had was that only units from a single civ could be in any given tile. Blocking settlers in civ 3 was quite important given the speed the AI would expand at. It was often necessary to sign open borders agreements with your neighbours and then block the flood of settlers that would come charging through to claim any spare tile they could find in your territory.

Civ 4 removed the rule and let units from different civs happily sit in the same tile unless they were at war.

 

[AriochIV]

What Civs 1-3 had was that only units from a single civ could be in any given tile. Blocking settlers in civ 3 was quite important given the speed the AI would expand at. It was often necessary to sign open borders agreements with your neighbours and then block the flood of settlers that would come charging through to claim any spare tile they could find in your territory.

In Civ I-II, there were no open borders agreements (or rather, there was no closed borders agreement), so the only way to prevent units from entering your territory was to block them with your units. There was a zone of control rule in those days, so a unit couldn't advance past your unit that was blocking it.

 

[vulture2]

In Civ I-II, there were no open borders agreements (or rather, there was no closed borders agreement), so the only way to prevent units from entering your territory was to block them with your units. There was a zone of control rule in those days, so a unit couldn't advance past your unit that was blocking it.

I know - I only mentioned open borders in relation to civ 3.

But since the poster mentioned blocking settlers with 3 warriors, it sounds like civ 3 to me anyway, since you needed 3 units to block a 1 move unit indefinitely (with ZoC you could do it with 1, but I don't recally ever needing to block AI expansion in Civs 1 or 2 anyway since the AI didn't REX, but did it like a bar steward in 3).

 

[Ahriman]

So the answer would be: if you have an iron ressource 4 tiles away from your city, the only way to harvest from those (get the hammers and stuff) is to build another city.

But you could still potentially beeline out to the tile with gold purchases of land, build a mine and get the iron income.

 

[Polobo]

It is possible that friendly non-combat units will be able to stack...

 

[Oberon Blade]

Thank you for all the replies.

There are a few changes to this latest civ, but I have yet to find something out of those changes that makes me not want the game.

 

[Souron]

It wasn't 1UPT. Also, military units don't prevent non-enemy civilian units from movement. So you'll need to block rival settler with workers, which doesn't look like a cheap strategy

Workers don't stop city growth in civ V, so it likely is cheaper than surrounding the opponent with advance military units. Workers are twice as expensive as warriors, but about on par with building a chariot team.

It is possible that friendly non-combat units will be able to stack...

The way Greg has been talking of civilians as a "layer" makes it seem unlikely. Though he did use the same terms to describe air units, which can stack. Still if the concept of "layer" is a major thing, then there have to be at least two non stacking layers. Otherwise fighting units are just a special case, not a layer.

 

[lissenber]

7. City radious. I seen some screenshots of what I think are a group of cities close together. in earlier Civ games each city had a cross extending out of their city where they could work, if you placed a city to close to another, that would hamper the new city as some tiles were already occupied by another city. How does this function now? I read you can expand to 3 rings around your city, 37 hexes I think, but it will be very difficult. But for arguments sake, lets say you can. Does that mean that each city shouldn't be closer then 6 tiles from eachother to have the best possible workarea?

8 tiles.

1st tile is for a city.
2nd tile is the first ring surrounding the city.
3nd tile is the second ring surrounding the city.
4th tile is the third ring surrounding the city.
5th tile is the third ring surrounding your second city.
6th tile is the second ring surrounding your second city.
7th tile is the first ring surrounding your second city.
8th tile is your second city.

I hope this makes it clear. I imagine it`s possible (if you are on a pangaea map or have enough land) to build your civilization in a way that there are no tiles unused or used by 2 cities at once.