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Questions, ideas, etc.

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - We The People' started by CptBadger, Nov 3, 2018.

  1. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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    1, what happened to town guards?
    They were a great, cheap way to provide at least minimal defense against raids early. Can we bring them back?

    2, love the coastal ships, really streamlines economy.

    3, wasn't there at some point a religious ideology feature? Catholics vs protestantism? I could swore that was (or was going to be) a thing at some point.

    4, I miss silver in all peaks. Makes sense historically but was convenient for economy in mountains.

    5 there a specific reason you can't dye wool cloth? Seems could dye either bout the same?

    6 would love to have a master map, with accurate locations for all natives and Europeans, with multiple leaders from each nation (when realistic.) Like Spaniards near Florida And South America. Dutch near North Brasil/SE Caribbean and new york, Danes near Iceland and Greenland, etc. There were often multiple separate colonies.

    Just some thoughts
     
  2. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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    7, Inca leader would more appropriately be Atahualpa, the last Inca. He reigned when Spanish conquistadors made contact and conquered. Huayna Capac was a great leader, but was before this age. Just an opinion.
     
  3. GS_Guderian

    GS_Guderian Chieftain

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    I just happen to build up my defenses for future war of Independence and I have to decide between
    1. colonial militia (8 strength)
    or
    2. line infantry (9 strength)

    but I do have leftover settlers militia (5 strength) from one event and a founding father.

    So we have three types of infantry we can produce, correct?
     
  4. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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    And conquistadors, native mercenaries, rangers, hessians, and continental guards, all event units.

    Used to be able to make town guardsmen, melee infantry, but they took it out
     
  5. Keuler

    Keuler Chieftain

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    Requested feature: possibility to destroy wares in towns to free up storagespace.

    Why would it be useful for the player:
    Towns that produce resources that are currently not needed, as well as important resources at a much slower pace, hence ending up with a full storage that makes it impossible to continue producing the important resource.
    It is impossible to buy buildings that require additional resources like tools if you reached the storage capacity.
    Full storage will lead to a global warning message loop that can be anoying if you are aware of the problem but cannot solve it immediately.
     
  6. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Chieftain Supporter

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    There is already a proposal for Protect some yields from overflow, which seems to aim at the same goal.

    I wonder if it's a good idea to allow discarding yields from colonies because then players can discard everything when they know they will lose the colony next turn.
     
  7. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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    Why not? Burning your stores was a common tactic if fleeing a city before capture. I actually really like the idea. I hate having heaps of ore or some stuff laying around and blocking your whale oil production/causing dumping.

    Alternately, be able to set governor with priority levels for goods, so the spoiled goods are the less important to you
     
  8. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

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    If you have any type of transport you can already destroy goods.
     
  9. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    I have done such a map for RAR v2.2. This is an accurate depiction of colonies in the Americas in 1650 :
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/scenario-americas-1650ad-lets-rewrite-history.23564/

    I haven't tested it with WTP but there's no reason why it wouldn't work. :)
     
    CptBadger likes this.
  10. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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  11. simonscales

    simonscales Chieftain

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    Just a few ideas that could be added to the mod:

    New victory level - Dominion Status. More or less, independence without having to fight the WOI. For example, you would need at least 75% of your population supporting independence AND colonial land forces at least 66% the size of the REF (if the REF has 100 land units, you would need 66 of your own land units - naval units not counted, since it is VERY unlikely that any colony is ever going to have 60 or more ships of the line), AND good relations with the Crown - at least +10 in diplomacy say. In practical terms, represents that the King, and Parliament, have recognised that a large majority of colonists want independence, and that they have become powerful enough that it is far from certain that the motherland would easily win if it went to a war. So, in order to keep the empire united, they agree to let the colonies govern themselves, but still within the empire. The player becomes Prime Minister of his politically independent colonies, with the King remaining as purely ceremonial Head of State. Perhaps this would score, say, 80% of the VP's gained from a full 'independence' victory. Canada in 1867 is the obvious historical example. In order to stop players from 'cheating' by raising huge military forces and ignoring everything else early in the game to meet these conditions, this victory scenario would not be 'active' until half the number of turns had passed, or until the year 1700, or something similar.

    New civic, when choosing your constitution after declaring independence - Federal Power vs States Rights. Federal Power; gives +10% production of military equipment (muskets, cannons, blades - a 'building specific effect' rather than a bonus applied to the workers in those facilities, if that makes sense) in all appropriate facilities, due to central planning and adoption of standardized equipment designs leading to greater production efficiency, also +200% production of liberty bells in the first colony you founded (effectively, your capital). States Rights, gives +10% settlement defence to all 'militia' type units (Colonia Militia and Settler Militia), due to 'local patriotism' generated from having a more decentralised government, when these units are defending in their 'home' states, also +10% production of liberty bells in every colony.

    New colonist type - Skilled Slave. The 'skilled worker' unit for forced labour. Buyable in Africa, costs 3 or 4 times the price of a normal slave. Works the same as a free colonist in 'outside' occupations, such as farming, fur trapping etc, but has a +1 when doing any skilled 'inside building' job. So a Skilled Slave produces 4 stuff per turn, rather than 3 for a free colonist, or 6 for a skilled free worker. Maybe has a lesser chance of running away, since they are likely treated somewhat better by their owners than the mere 'field hands' - because see this, from Wikipedia - "During most of the British colonial period, slavery existed in all the colonies. People enslaved in the North typically worked as house servants, artisans, laborers and craftsmen, with the greater number in cities. Many men worked on the docks and in shipping. In 1703, more than 42 percent of New York City households held slaves, the second-highest proportion of any city in the colonies after Charleston, South Carolina.[24] But slaves were also used as agricultural workers in farm communities, including in areas of upstate New York and Long Island, Connecticut, and New Jersey" - from article, 'Slavery in the United States' - section 1 'Colonial America'.

    Sorry for the rather long post, but these are just a few things I have been thinking about since this mod went live.
     
    TheIanOakley likes this.
  12. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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    I love the first idea completely.

    Second idea I'd only change from 10percent settlement defense for militia to 10 percent strength within cultural borders for all colonial units (exclude hessians, royal artillery, European line infantry, etc) but include your line infantry, rangers, natives, and mounted units.

    Third I'm not completely for or against. May just be more than worth? Alternately, instead of buying, be a step up in training between slaves and specialists?
     
  13. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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    Also, idea. There are European and native mercenaries. Maybe either by event or in Africa, buying mercenaries or unique ships or some other unique units?

    Thought of adding East India port for trading as well, unlocked by sailing west?
     
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  14. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

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    If that also make the trip time to the west similar to Europe to the east and the trip to east the same as the current to the west.
    You could even have a trip to India button straight from Europe.
    With drastically different prices in the two, you could add more fun to the trading aspect.
    Also have more trade opportunities(native demands) with the natives.
     
  15. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Chieftain Supporter

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    New tickets: New victory level - Dominion Status and New civic (category?) Federal Power vs States Rights.

    I'm not sure about this one. The main issue is that slaves can run away when working outdoor while they can't while working in buildings. Adding a slave, which is better in buildings and then can't run away seems overpowered. In fact slaves can already be considered overpowered as it is.

    Sounds like the easy way out for the pathfinder, which currently assumes the same travel time for all Europe access plots. Not for actual travel time, just prediction when finding the fastest route to Europe.
     
  16. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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    I would love to be able to travel between Europe, Africa, and (when applicable) Port Royal. As well as any added ports later. Triangle trade, and whatnot.
     
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  17. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Chieftain Supporter

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    Huayna Capac died in 1524 probably of Smallpox and the game starts in 1492. Atahualpa was not even born in 1492.
     
  18. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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    Most of the native leaders were not born in 1492. Huayna Capac was not Inca, or even alive, when Europeans conquered the Inca. Atahualpa was, and it was Atahualpa that ruled the end of the empire, was captured, ransomed, and executed by the spanish. So going by the most relevant leaders of each tribe to the colonization process would mean Atahualpa.

    Pure name recognition, Huayna Capac has, though...
     
  19. Hrvoje193

    Hrvoje193 Chieftain

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    I haven't had the time to test mod yet, but here are few of my ideas for improvements based on R&R and MC:
    1. Naval component was neglected in both mods, which means there were only a few choices.For example Galleon for transport and SOTL for war.MC had bigger and better ground units selections with counters to almost every unit.Also AI used only a few ships, even if it has thousand+ ground units.
    2. Long time ago there was talk about implementing usable resources for units, which would be spent after battle.Like powder, cannons etc.
    3. Inventions that unlock techs/proffessions/units/features.Something like Civ IV, but simpler.It is already implemented in MC.
     
  20. Drunk-Monk

    Drunk-Monk Chieftain

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    Thank you for your continued hard work on the mod, it’s such a great improvement on the (half baked) vanilla Colonisation. However I have noticed that most of my games follow a routine, once I have a few industries set up, I can just watch as the money rolls in as I gently cruise to the inevitable revolution, therefore I have come up with some suggestions and ideas that might hopefully improve and add more variety especially to the late game.


    The Economy / Domestic sphere


    One important thing that seems to be missing, is the overexploitation of resources, this had an important impact historically in the Americas, for example the Beaver-fur trade, Bison and Cotton all necessitated constant territorial expansion to function. Resources could be set to produce diminishing returns rather than be suddenly exhausted. As the mod has so many resources this would be balanced, after exhausting a Premium Fur site you could cut the forest down and start growing Barley for example, it would also encourage expansion which would create conflict rather than the situation now, in which you just need to develop a few key plots and industries, then sit back and grow rich.


    Whilst somewhat present in vanilla, I'd like to see more boom and bust events to simulate the economic cycle, this would require you to make the most of all the range of your specialists and all the new resources in the game and add more challenge. For example, if you are constantly building things a building boom event could occur that would add extra hammers of production but would add to the price of materials (lumber, stone etc) and add to the cost of recruiting specialists (carpenters, stonecutters etc). Or say Coffee becomes unfashionable, so you grow the more in demand Cocoa.


    Domestic Politics - The lack of internal politics and "friction" from declaring independence. There are no entrenched interests, or defenders or loyalists to the old regime. Historically all the independence struggles were destructive civil wars, however in the game the colonies constantly desire independence with no possibility of support, falling or changing, its simple to get 100% support, and your only penalty is having difficulty with trading with Europe. From watching lets plays of the Original Colonisation it seems like you would face opposition form your own colonists if you didn’t have 100% support, and the King would encourage Indian tribes to turn against you. I would like to see something similar introduced in We The People, to shake up the late game. The Constitution is also relatively useless, as it doesn’t even interact with the unique elements of the mod like slavery.


    Banditry, smuggling and rebellion against the local authority was a huge problem in the Colonial and post-Colonial Americas, it would be great to see this recognised rather than just fighting wild Animals. Perhaps the pirates could land troops?


    Reform the food mechanic, as it is an easy exploit to get Free Colonists by collecting small amounts of food from each colony and then dumping this large collection of food onto a smaller colony. Its also trivial to have large colonies in inhospitable locations. Also, there are few consequences for starvation, and no food cost for units outside of settlements, historically (quite understandably) food production was the number one priority and many of the early colonies failed or struggled to survive. Perhaps to add more peril to the prospect of starvation, you could receive a penalty like the rebellion that stops production, or lose a percentage of Rebellion rate, this would mean you have to co-operate and trade more with the natives (who would have abundant food resources in the early game), to stop the player being destroyed in the early game you could also add food requests, to the King and Archbishops diplomacy options.


    Revise wagon costs. The later wagons are too cheap considering their abilities, as they basically cost the same as the starting wagon, and one of the wagons requires no horses or cloth.


    To me there seems to be little point in investing in the other ships, when you can easily buy the Galleon.


    Maybe you should take another look at the Lumber-mill improvement. It seems anomalous in both its price and how much it boosts production. To me, it’s the one plot improvement that is overpowered.


    This thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/north-south-east-west-starts-for-any-civ.499085/ suggests that its possible to have factions enter the map from different locations. I think this would be a good addition, as at the moment the AI factions tend to be at disadvantage as they settle and fight over a small amount of land whilst much of the map remains empty.


    War


    I feel that war is one of the areas that could do with some more improvement. I think there should be more events surrounding war with other powers, rather than the case now where the King declares war and you just follow, for example there could be more events about war tension, or some indication of the relations between the Kings. This would allow the player and the AI to have more information about the conflict, allowing the colonies to receive reinforcements and allow you and the AI to start preparing war material. At the moment it is often very easy to defeat the enemy as they have very few troops deployed. Of course, you can also have the option of starting a war that is unapproved by your King, this would generate a very negative response from both your own and the opposition King.


    As many wars in this period were fought in coalitions, perhaps this can also be introduced, rather than the situation now where Wars seem to be 1vs1. This would also make it harder to maintain friendships with the other powers which would balance the end game, where as of now you receive a great deal of support.


    I think that the higher-level fortifications should require cannons just like ships and should also increase the REF, as historically large fortifications were expensive and required the permission of the King to build. In the game they provide a significant counterbalance against the REF.


    Blades can't be traded with Natives and Natives don't request them, although historically these items were highly in demand.


    Cannons are too easily produced, at the same rate as muskets but they are also much more monetarily valuable, whereas historically they were difficult to produce and rare. To balance this, they should have lower yields, but units should require less cannons.


    Reform the Indian raids. It is ridiculous to me that the Indians can gain 6000 gold from a failed raid!?, this is far more damaging than the REF. Also the player cannot defend against it. Make it more reasonable like losing some resources or have them attack colonisers outside of a settlement. Make the fortification upgrades actually protect against this.


    I feel there needs to be a streamlining in the amount of military promotions available. Many seem to be very repetitive, for example Forced March is a better version of Explorer. Homeland Guard an overpowered form of Minuteman. The Piracy and Merchant Vessel promotions also provide a negative attribute, which goes against the positive manner of the other promotions, and the Great Discoverer promotion is incredibly overpowered.


    I think that the sea creatures should be only visible or (be vulnerable to being attacked by) by the fishing, whaling and coastal boats. It just seems absurd that a frigate would go around chasing giant squid or sharks, whilst there are plenty of shipwrecks to gain experience from. The Animal Hunter promotions should be restricted to Scouts and the aforementioned Boats, as its pretty useless for every other unit.


    Leader Traits


    The Experienced General trait should apply to all the military units, as of now it doesn't include Conquistadores, European Line Infantry, Cavalry etc. The Experienced Admiral Trait does not include Man-O-War or any of the trade ships.


    The Determined trait is far too strong, at 100% against the REF, it should be cut by at least half.


    The Charisma trait at 100% is also overly strong


    Consider renaming the "Undemanding" trait, it’s definitely not a character trait that would be associated with a great leader. As its boosts production whilst requiring less resources, maybe something like “Efficient” might be more appropriate?


    UI / Cosmetic


    Is it possible to remove the pop-up asking if you want war, anytime that you land on the unit of another faction?


    Change the icon for buildings generating money to something more appropriate, like a dollar sign or gold coins rather than the yellow exclamation mark.


    Change the icon for European line infantry as its too similar to the veteran, perhaps add another star.


    Please could you create a notification for when a city has stopped resisting / rebelling.


    It would be great to have some response or notification from the King when you ask for troops and after you win a colonial war, such as "I have decided to give you etc" would be useful


    Russia should not have Jesuits Missionaries, as Catholics and Jesuits were a tiny minority in Russia and did not participate in colonisation. Orthodox Monastics played the largest role in conversion. This looks like a good model for a priest. https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/russian-orthodox-priest.16388/


    Possibility of changing Russia’s colour? Its very similar to Portugal’s and the colour green has never featured on any Russian flag or state symbol.


    Age of Discovery II allowed you to change your flag on Independence. Could this be implemented?
     
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