Questions on the AI Liberating Gifted cities.

[WackenOpenAir]

I have some questions on the technique of gifting recently conquered cities.

I capture a city from civ A. I want to gift it to civ B.
Civ B could then liberate it and revive civ A after its destruction.

Does anyone know what the chances are of this happening and what factors influence these chances ?

1. Distance to the rest of their empire ?
2. Quality of the city ?
3. Anything else ?
   (i have read about the AI bias: Diplomatic Balance although i am not sure if that was a players assumption or a known fact)

How do the following circumstances influence this?

1. Civ A and B were at war when i captured the city from civ A
2. Civ A and B were at war when i gifted the city to civ B
3. Civ A and B were at war when i destroyed civ A
4. I gifted the city after i destroyed civ A (and that in relation to the above 3)
5. Civ B actually captured the city from civ A themselves.

Thank you.

Furthermore, how fast can i gift a city, do i first need to wait till the resistance has ended or can i gift it right away ?

 

[sixty4half]

I'm not sure what the factors are, but I know that a way to avoid this happening is to gift the city to a Civ that was at war with that cities owners when they were eliminated from the game. You cannot liberate cities of Civs that you were at war with during the elimination, and neither can the AI.

So, in relation to this scenario:
1 Civ A and B were at war when i captured the city from civ A
2 Civ A and B were at war when i gifted the city to civ B

I'm pretty sure that B would not be able to liberate the city after these two steps, even if A hasn't been completely eliminated yet.

3 Civ A and B were at war when i destroyed civ A
4 I gifted the city after i destroyed civ A (and that in relation to the above 3)

If B was at war when A was eliminated, he definitely can't liberate the city

5 Civ B actually captured the city from civ A themselves.

If he captured Civ A's city, he can't very well liberate it and revive civ A. If that's not the answer you're looking for then I don't understand what you're trying to illustrate with this step, and I have a feeling that I'm missing something you're trying to communicate.

 

[komodowaran]

I have some questions on the technique of gifting recently conquered cities.

I capture a city from civ A. I want to gift it to civ B.
Civ B could then liberate it and revive civ A after its destruction.

Does anyone know what the chances are of this happening and what factors influence these chances ?

1. Distance to the rest of their empire ?
2. Quality of the city ?
3. Anything else ?
   (i have read about the AI bias: Diplomatic Balance although i am not sure if that was a players assumption or a known fact)

1. does not factor in to liberation
2. does not factor in if it's to bad of a city the ai might raze it but it makes the liberation choice first
3. Jes the folowing things factor in:
Forgiveness of the civ (http://civdata.com/)
Releations with the civ before it was eliminated
if the civ that is going to liberate it has already picked it's victory condition:
domination victory= nearly never liberate
diplo victory = nearly always liberate

civ's that roled domination victory might raze citys that could get liberated

 

[WackenOpenAir]

If that's not the answer you're looking for then I don't understand what you're trying to illustrate with this step, and I have a feeling that I'm missing something you're trying to communicate.

Thanx, you answered them perfectly. If some of them were super obvious to answer thats because i have never before considered the option to liberate or gift any city myself so i dont even know when I can liberate a city.
And a few options were added just for being complete.

 

[beetle]

@OP you write “gift” but do you not really mean “sell”?

I never even considered that a civ would liberate a city I sold them! It is pretty rare that civs liberate on their own, but I have seen Alex do it a few times.

Furthermore, how fast can i gift a city, do i first need to wait till the resistance has ended or can i gift it right away ?

Right away. For cities I don’t care about, I usually pick “Raze” on capture, sell off the best buildings (could be a few turns), then typically sell to the highest bidder.

...so i dont even know when I can liberate a city.

The opportunity is only upon first capture. It is only an option for cities that were conquered. Unless the city was a cap or has a wonder, Liberate is usually the best choice.

 

[Sclb]

3 Civ A and B were at war when i destroyed civ A
4 I gifted the city after i destroyed civ A (and that in relation to the above 3)
If B was at war when A was eliminated, he definitely can't liberate the city

These points aren't true at all.
Only the civ that took the last city from a destroyed civ can't liberate, so in that case B can technically liberate since by default war ends once civ is destroyed.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Well, if they want to pay for those cities thats fine, if they dont want to pay, then i do indeed mean gift.

Its about capitals that cant be razed but have a negative impact on my empire (producing less science than 5% of my own and/or adding negative happiness that i cannot handle)

Possibly also other cities if i have multiple battle groups razing cities and i would end up having too many burning cities for my happiness

 

[WackenOpenAir]

1. does not factor in to liberation
2. does not factor in if it's to bad of a city the ai might raze it but it makes the liberation choice first
3. Jes the folowing things factor in:
Forgiveness of the civ (http://civdata.com/)
Releations with the civ before it was eliminated
if the civ that is going to liberate it has already picked it's victory condition:
domination victory= nearly never liberate
diplo victory = nearly always liberate

civ's that roled domination victory might raze citys that could get liberated

Thanx,
Do you know when the AI chooses its victory condition and how i can be certain about their choise ?

 

[beetle]

Well, if they want to pay for those cities thats fine, if they dont want to pay, then i do indeed mean gift.

Gifting trash cities is fine. But a friendly over extend AI will often pay a good bit -- and then raze the city half the time anyway. It is odd.

Its about capitals that cant be razed but have a negative impact on my empire (producing less science than 5% of my own and/or adding negative happiness that i cannot handle)

Well, it is pretty rare for a cap not to be worth keeping, but I have made such a choice on occasion. It kind of sucks that you cannot sell off any buildings without annexing (and taking the permanent hit to policy costs).

Do you know when the AI chooses its victory condition and how i can be certain about their choice?

Preferred VC is picked at the start, but you cannot tell until Ideology eliminates one of the three. And the AIs will all start working towards SV if they have nothing else to do.

But I think you are worried about avoiding an outcome that is vanishingly rare.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Gifting trash cities is fine. But a friendly over extend AI will often pay a good bit -- and then raze the city half the time anyway. It is odd.


Well, it is pretty rare for a cap not to be worth keeping, but I have made such a choice on occasion. It kind of sucks that you cannot sell off any buildings without annexing (and taking the permanent hit to policy costs).


Preferred VC is picked at the start, but you cannot tell until Ideology eliminates one of the three. And the AIs will all start working towards SV if they have nothing else to do.

But I think you are worried about avoiding an outcome that is vanishingly rare.

Well, even if its rare, i would like to make the chances as tiny as possible 1% chance to have my game ruined is better than 2%.
And also, i always want to know all the details, you never know when they might all of a sudden be important.

 

[komodowaran]

Preferred VC is picked at the start, but you cannot tell until Ideology eliminates one of the three. And the AIs will all start working towards SV if they have nothing else to do.

But I think you are worried about avoiding an outcome that is vanishingly rare.

U can tell a lot earlyer for what victory condition they are going if u go to diplo menu
they desire frendly relations = diplo win
they are banking works early = culture win
they wan't lands u have when not near u = domination win
nothing = might be tech win or just bad play from the ai

u can se that somtimes clearly by medeval

ondly important thing to know is that if u manage to push a AI far enough from there condition they can actualy change there victory condition during a game (thats a lot of work to do but it's not that hard)