Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Civrules, Oct 29, 2005.
Archers are ressourceless. I think that sums up almost everything.
Well yes, if I had no copper I would build archers. Likewise if I was Mali or Babylon (Bob Marley forgive me!). But the rest of the time . . .
Archers are also cheaper and aren't as vulnerable to Chariots. But I usually make Archery a low priority in the early game (unless I'm Protective, but then again, I hardly every choose to play an off-line game with that trait). So most of the time, like a4, I defend with Axemen and, if Chariots are threatening, with Spearmen too.
Thanks Sisiutil. That early in the game I'm more worried about barbarian raids, and if a barbarian chariot (I don't remember seeing many) comes onto my territory I can probably arrange to attack it with my axeman (chariots only get their bonus while attacking, right?). But yeah, if the city is a potential battleground of course I'll add spears to the mix. The main point is to skip researching Archery, which seems well worth the extra cost of axes over archers, especially when I can use that ax to go and knock off an archer or swordsman that's pillaging my tiles while the archer can only sit in the city.
About the usefulness of archers and archery.
At the higher difficulty levels, barbarians appear a lot earlier and start attacking your cities a lot earlier. It's often very hard to discover animal husbandry and bronze working before they start attacking your cities. The barbarians also include archers directly from the moment they start appearing because the AI starts with archery at the highest levels and the barbarian troops are linked to the level of troops fielded by the other civilisations. It's very hard to face archers when you only have warriors available. It's not unusual to encounter archers around 3000BC with your scouting units at the highest levels. This combined with the fact that the combat bonus against barbarians becomes smaller as the difficulty level increases makes it a bit of a gamble to skip archery. You gamble that there is a copper resource in the neighbourhood if you go for bronze working and you gamble that there is a horse resource in the neighbourhood if you go for animal husbandry. You typically can't research both before your cities are under attack from barbarian archers. This gamble may work fine in several games, but there will be a game where you don't find the resource in the neighbourhood and then you'll be fighting barbarian archers with warriors and losing many warriors while your terrain gets pillaged and your cities are in risk of capture.
There are other elements than the difficulty level that can make barbarians a bigger problem.
Map Size and number of players:
If you're playing on a larger map size, then there is typically more fog of war especially if you leave the number of players at the standard setting or lower. The area that needs to be fogbusted can be too large to be feasible and thus many barbarians will spawn in the fog of war. It's also unusual to have a strategic resource like horses or copper available for your capital or first expansion city because resources are a bit more thinly spread across the larger land area.
The research costs are also higher on bigger maps which makes it harder to quickly research the technologies to see the strategic resources.
Maps with more land compared to sea will spawn more barbarians. Archipelago maps typically make dealing with barbarians pretty easy. Maps where your cities are surrounded by large areas of unsettled land on all sides make defending against barbarians a nightmare.
An argument that works for archers on all settings is their reduced cost compared to chariots and axemen. If you want to expand quickly, then you often just want a cheap garrison unit to appease the citizens in your central cities.
The ability of archers to passively defend cities is about equal to the ability of axemen to passively defend cities. So if you see a large stack of AI units without siege units coming for one of your cities, then archers can be the most cost effective defence unit. Having a few axemen or chariots to counter attack the attack stack after it weakened itself attacking your defending archers can of course be very valuable. But the only reason to defend your cities with attacking units is the ability to counter attack, not the ability to defend.
Edit: I personally usually play the Big and Small type of maps which contain continents with large areas of land and I play on huge maps. Both of these elements lead to larger areas of land where barbarian archers can spawn. I also usually play at immortal difficulty level. It's unusual to capture a strategic resource with the first 2 cities (capital and first expansion), because it's usually not located that close. I never skip archery, really never.
Thanks RJ, if I ever play at the higher levels I will definitely remember that.
In the particular case of axemen, they're also better defenders against the most likely city raider, swordsmen. Certainly I wouldn't garrison a city primarily with mounted units, siege units (except Machine Guns) or tanks.
Has the Great Wall changed in BTS other than that it now produces Great Spy points instead of Great Engineer? I think I'm going to try building my army more around field combat than strictly city taking, and also try to fight the decisive battles on my own turf.
I heard that Great Generals now require more points, is it a lot more? Has that changed anyone's strategy?
It's maybe more a mixture of difficulty level and map settings. On an archipelago map or on a tiny map, you will face very few barbarians no matter the difficulty level.
Yes, axemen are better than archers against swordsmen. But archers can also still win against swordsmen if you have 40% cultural defence or are a protective leader. But axemen are better. The age of archers is over when the enemy is coming with large numbers of swordsmen.
The great spy is very nice to get early in the game. The number of espionage points that you get from an infiltration is enough to steal several early game technologies. The great spy becomes less interesting in the late game except when you're running an espionage economy. In that case, you could create a scotland yard in your best espionage points producing city.
I don't know the exact values in Warlords and BTS, so I don't know. I didn't really notice it.
If you have the EP to do something, is it a sure thing or do missions still sometimes fail?
Also, what're the specific game mechanics of the new Drill resistance to collateral damage? Is it only Drill IV that confers any protection, or does it start at a lower level? Does it apply to damage from bombers too?
wat folder do i go in to edit the Next War mod?
There should be a mouse-over tip when you come to the Espionage Mission menu. There is a breakdown of the points and the percentage chance for the mission to succeed. Often the mission succeeds but since the chance for success and the chance for the spy to be caught are separate, the mission may succeed but the spy still gets caught. If the mission doesn't succeed the spy will be caught anyway.
Thanks for all the tips. I'm beginning to get the hang of this.
A. There is a difference between city borders and national borders, at least after the first few turns. The first city (and every new city) starts out 3x3. At that point the city border IS the national cultural border.
B. When the city gains culture and expands, it always expands to 5x5, minus the corners (the fat cross). Again, the city border and the civilization border are one and the same.
C. When the city gains still more culture and expands again, its border stays at 5x5 (the largest size allowed) but the national border expands beyond it. You now have land that's OUTSIDE the city boundary but INSIDE the national boundary. To benefit from resources in this "state" land (i.e., part of the country but not part of the city) you have to build roads to it.
Regarding one of my other questions, it appears that I do get benefit from unimproved land inside my city, but not as much as if a worker had improved it. For example, my city collects food from nearby grassland tiles even if there's no farm there. I just get more food (+1 per turn) if I build a farm on that land.
Finally, I kind of like the idea that civilization boundaries have nothing to do with military power. Civs expand through culture, not military build-up. In fact, military units have no effect on your sphere of influence whatsoever. Libraries and theatres do more good than archers and warriors. Nice.
Actually, you need roads to have acess to resources that are inside one of your cities fat cross as well.
There is a small chance that a mission fails, but then there is no espionage point cost. Only succesful missions cost espionage points. You can lose a spy due to a failed mission.
Drill I: no collateral damage reduction
Drill II: 20% collateral damage reduction
Drill III: 40% collateral damage reduction
Drill IV: 60% collateral damage reduction
I don't know which files to change to remove the 'the world cracked like an egg' event, so therefore I referred to a mod that has already done so. Are there elements in that mod that you don't like?
Okay, we got corporation, a merchant and several sushi resources. But I flumoxed bcs I can't figure how to build sids... I'm not rushing to build it at the moment bcs my fishy resources are currently earning about 18 in trade, but I'm just durned cornfused.
Attached is the save.
My guess is you are running the State Property civic, where corporations have no effect, so you are unable to found it. Just like it prevents you from spreading corporations, I presume it prohibits you from founding them as well.
This is absolutely a good guess, but it's not the case. I'm running Free Market at the moment. Weird.
EDIT: Next turn, the button popped up. This may have had something to do with movement. Like you can't move and foundt he same turn. But I thought I had been stationary a couple turns in the capital. Can war also have something to do with it? Thanks for your two cents.
...except now it only allows me to build Cereal Mills, which is lame. I suppose it's like lightbulbing: you don't get a choice. Does this mean that Sid's is permanently out of my grasp for this game? Hmm
I don't have the game available at this computer, so I can't test your savegame.
A few guesses:
1) Someone else has already founded it. Check the Corporation screen.
2) You don't have the required technology to found Sid's Sushi. You need more than just the Corporation technology. Each corporation has its own prerequisite technology.
Using the a civic that prohibits founding corporations was also a good guess but you already responded that you're running the free market civic which allows corporations. Notice that patch 3.13 stops you from founding a corporation under mercantalism which is a bug that was fixed in Bhruics unofficial patch.
Do caravels upgrade to galleons or frigates?
Caravels upgrade to frigates. Only galleys can upgrade to galleons.
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