Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Turner, Apr 23, 2009.
The short answer is five spaces.
Without the pentagon it is four because the army can only contain three units. So before the Pentagon a galleon can carry a "full" army.
I'm having trouble with a game at Monarch (Korea/Standard/Continents) in terms of balancing defensive forces (I'm "weak" or "average" compared with each of my neighbors) with scientific research (I can't afford any, and even building marketplaces is challenging). General ideas to keep in mind for how to balance these? According to a quick review of the game - I haven't played in a while - my biggest problem seems to be unit costs. Would disbanding some offensive units (and keeping the defensive ones) make all the difference?
Hmm... I'm getting a strange sense of déja vu...
So... how many obsolete units are you currently paying for, and/or how many Pikes/ Muskets/ Rifles/ Infs did you (over)build this time...?
I'd rather do it the other way around.
Remember, the AI respects your total attack-strength more than your total defensive strength, and while running a Republic (you are running a Republic, right?), there is usually very little utility in heavily garrisoning all your towns. Also, a Monarch-level AI won't usually be able to send large stacks of units at you without warning, so only the vulnerable towns which can be attacked within a single turn, by enemy fast-units (or amphibious units, if the Vikings are on the map, or the game has progressed as far as Amphibious Warfare/ Marines?) really need garrisons.
So if you think you need to disband units to reduce costs, but are already rated weak to average against opponents, you would usually be better off disbanding unneeded defensive (i.e. A < D) units from your 'safe' towns, rather than your offensive (A > D) units. That said, a stack of 4–6 Knights/Cavs (if you have them?) can easily defend 4–5 towns, while still being cheaper to maintain than putting 2–3 Maces/Pikes/Muskets plus Trebs/Hwach'a into each of those towns.
And if you're having difficulty scraping together shields/gold for Markets, moving those unneeded units to the towns building Markets, and disbanding them there, will help solve both those problems. With the Lux-boost allowing you to put citizens back to work on tiles, plus the TAX%-windfalls you get by reducing SCI% at the end of a research-project, Markets should usually pay for themselves, once built — but might Courthouses still be a higher priority in those towns?
But if none of that helps, maybe you could post a save for us to look at?
I could not help but think the same.
As an early republic exceeding size 6 is the top priority.
In (practically) any town without fresh water and with corruption below ~40% an aqueduct should be built before any other building.
In towns with fresh water the aqueduct can be replaced by a granary to faster reach size 7. After the granary those town would be the prefered producer of that amount of settlers and workers that is actually needed.
In towns with corruption higher than ~40% a courthouse should be the first building.
As an early republic any expense on unit support or building maintenance needs to be justified very well. Some serios scrutiny will be needed.
In extreme it can even make sense to practically seek being extorted. If you have to pay 100 gold every 10 turns that is only 10 gtp. How expensive would it be to avoid being extorted?
To add to all the other good answers, the other thing you should focus on is roads. Every road you build on an non-river worked tile under republic gives you 2 commerce, if uncorrupted that pays for a unit with just 4 worker turns. You should try and have most citizens working on improved tiles, though that does mean having workers who cost you unit support.
In the very early republic it may even make sense to only road some tiles. All tiles used by a citizen should be roaded(3 worker turns, plus one for reaching the tile), some should be irrigated(4 worker turns), but putting a mine on the tile for 6 workers turns is significantly less economical.
For the sake of argument it is reasonable to assume that any additional worker costs 2 gtp.
A road costs 8 gold and increases productivity by 1 or 2 if this triggers the commerce bonus.
An irrigation costs 8 gold and increases productivity by 1 and growth is a priority in the early game.
A mine costs 12 gold and increases productivity by 1 and production is not a priority in the early game if this causes additional drains on your economy.
The prioritization of those 3 options in the very early republic seems clear.
Let me provoke a bit more: As an early republic you should have no more than 1 worker per town. But you should have 2 workers per city as with city size you can afford it and there is usually enough work to be done for around 2 workers per city. You donnot want to use your citizens on tiles that are only roaded, at least not for longer than necessary.
To add to what I (and @justanick and @Samson) have already said, I am also wondering if you are still routinely using Accelerated Production in your games?
(As I've noted before) This mode is intended primarily for multiplayer games, but it can/will be unbalancing in single-player, mainly because (AFAIK) the Worker-turns required to complete any job are not halved in parallel with the doubled growth-rates that AP allows, i.e. your towns will tend to grow (much) faster than the tiles they are working can be fully improved.
Of course, if your start consists of Floodplains/Grassland (so a road is the only tile-improvement you 'need' to maintain a net +2 fpt for continued growth) this isn't a major problem, but for any other terrains (e.g. for towns on Plains, which also require irrigation) this will have knock-on effects across the board/game.
Not many, I think. I'm not up to muskets yet ... working on Education (and the AI already has Astronomy!). But I'll check it out next time I play.
Ok, I'll explore getting rid of some defensive units next time I open the game. (And yes, running Republic. Missed the slingshot, too, and couldn't buy it - no one was selling - so had to research it. That probably slowed me down, too.)
Right, that's what I had in mind.
Regarding disbanding: there are some times when you just need to rush buildings. Disbanding obsolete units so that there is a non-zero number of shields to immediately rush can work.
I don't build defensive units EVER, so get rid of them.........Think OFFENSE!
This may be true for aqueducts and courthouses, but only sometimes. As a rule of thumb buildings are designed to not be worth rushing.
And to point out the obvious: If production is deemed to be so scarce to warrent paying 4 gold for one shield, then 3 workers per mere town can very well be justified for ramping up regular production fast.
WeirdoJoker however had encounter the opposite scarceness: 4 gold are not only worth more than 1 shield, they are worth more than 4 shields and possibly worth 8 shields.
If you are not playing accelerated production, it would be great for you to upload your save so we can have a go!
Pretty sure I am. I just had turned it on at one point and never thought to turn it off & see what the difference is.
Ah shame, I think that would be too much of a change for me to enjoy.
As a rule of thumb, yes. Of course, you might want to rush buildings before switching to anarchy or mobilising, but also you might need to rush in a harbour or airport for trade, an airport also for dropping in fresh reinforcements if you've just conquered a beachhead.
Also, in a newly-conquered city you seriously need a barracks to heal your units in the interturn after they are attacked, because there are no fortifications to stop enemies from attacking directly from their own territory.
I likely play a very different style, or maybe below my true difficulty, but late game I am often running huge profits (1000gpt+) and will be rushing buildings all over the place, especially in newly conquered towns just to get them up and running.
Basically with a barracks for healing, a temple for expanding the borders and helping reduce the AI's mobility for counterattacks and a harbor/airport for trade you're set.
I usually go with a library to pump my science numbers.. is this folly?
if scientific , a library is cheaper . If religious , a temple is cheaper . If really rich , rush them both to get the border expansion a couple turns earlier .
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