In the U.S, is there any strict guide line against the federal government establishing a federal university system or something of the sort? The government does run some science institutions and the military academies, but nothing like a full fledged university as I know of.
Quick Constitutional Question on Uni.
- Thread starter zjl56
- Start date
Shekwan
Kim Chi Quaffing Celt
That idea sounds like a dirty commie plot to me.
Bigfoot3814
Deity
That's a state thing.
Wrong question. The USA federal government is limited in jurisdictions and powers to those expressly and impliedly given it in the constitution (whereas the states have all powers not denied them in the constitution). You show an example in your opening post: The military academies that are impliedly authorized by the military powers given to the Federal government. An example of what they do not have is a general police power. The federal government can only pass criminal laws proper to enforce one of their express jurisdiction. The majority of federal criminal statutes are in connection with their power to regulate interstate commerce.
Thus your question should be: "What part of the constitution authorizes the federal government to create and run a general university?"
Well written, but I would politely disagree.
This is the states rights position, much (most?) of which hasn't held up over time.
The "necessary and proper" clause (among other things) opens the door for this type of activity. That said, it has not traditionally been the domain of the federal govt.
I'd assume this would be allowed under Congress's power to tax and spend "for the general welfare." Article I Section 8.
That depends on whether you are loose constructionist or a strict constructionist.
Is West Point a university, even though it is military based?
The Morrill Land Grant Act gave a bunch of federal land to states to establish agricultural / engineering schools. They became, over time, general institutes of higher learning, and now include many prestigious state universities from which some stunningly handsome men have graduated.
The University of the District of Columbia is run by the federal government, though D.C.'s status in the Constitution is peculiar.
Generally, I'm with illram, though it couldn't favor one state over another (e.g., the Morrill Act's grants to each state).
Cleo
The University of the District of Columbia is run by the federal government, though D.C.'s status in the Constitution is peculiar.
Generally, I'm with illram, though it couldn't favor one state over another (e.g., the Morrill Act's grants to each state).
Cleo
mangxema
I
I don't see how a federal university would be any better than a state one.
Uh no, it is in the express language in the contitution on federal powers, and the broader state juridiction is express in another clause. But broader does not equal greater. Much of the power of the federal goverment currently comes from it having more money than any of the states. Another legal sources of its poer is the 'supremecy clause' where it does have jurisidiction, its law take precedence over state laws (preemption).
Yep, that is where you get the implied powers from. Military acadmeies and necessary and proper for and thus implied for the militarly power.
Berzerker
Deity
The N & P clause applies only to making laws necessary and proper for exercising the powers the framers enumerated.
The Congress shall have Power - To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
vested, given... and enumerated
Berzerker
Deity
The general welfare clause is not a power. Madison (Federalist #41?) explained it is akin to the general goals stated in the preamble and is nothing without the attached powers.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
Now, if all these are powers, why does the Constitution (art 1 sec 8) give Congress the power to maintain a navy if Congress already has the power to provide for the common defense? If providing for the general welfare was a power, the rest of the Constitution becomes redundant.
Berzerker
Deity
If the Constitution doesn't give Congress the power, Congress doesn't have the power. The 10th Amendment serves as a crash course for those unfamiliar with the notion of federalism
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Couldn't they propose an amendment? I don't see what difference school makes unless you are going simply to meet people. I think that's what university is for. You can read the same facts on the net or go to the library.
Something I've done instead of the hassle of college.
Something I've done instead of the hassle of college.
Berzerker
Deity
yeah, they can always amend the Constitution
easier to ignore it, or just claim new powers under some illogical interpretation of an ambiguous clause that effectively makes the framers look like morons.
easier to ignore it, or just claim new powers under some illogical interpretation of an ambiguous clause that effectively makes the framers look like morons.
You would need to design something that doesn't contradict itself. We don't know everything and some people disagree with gun ownership here because how do we know it won't lead to people killing themselves off?
Pretty contradictory but you can't expect only 55 men or whomever wrote it to think of 'everything.'
What about something that corrects itself? I vaguely recall something in 1933...
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