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vorlon_mi

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During last night's game, I was beating up on Kozlov and finally got him to agree to peace. Got a city and a tech as part of the peace deal.

Then he declares on me... The. Very. Next. Turn. WTF?

The game won't let the human player re-declare for 10 turns, IIRC. In this case, SF didn't have much of an army since I had shredded it during the previous war. But it was annoying, since I was trying to shift my forces to the south to deal with another AI invading me.
 

legalizefreedom

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Don't they usually have to wait 10 turns too? There must be something in the situation, like maybe only if there are spoils.

I've noticed an AI declaring on me after a previous war and I thought, no way that was 10 turns, but thought maybe I just wasn't paying attention how many turns it was.
 

Tiberiu

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Then he declares on me... The. Very. Next. Turn. WTF?
The game won't let the human player re-declare for 10 turns, IIRC. .

I think it is the same as in civ 5, where peace treaties can immediately be bypassed by joint dows. I have not yet seen it happen in civ be but I do not play so much nowadays. It is hard to say if it is something working as intended or it is a design flaw. If he was alone declaring war, it seems weird indeed, but if it was a war in which he was attracted by some ally of his being at war with you, then it is understandable.
 

vorlon_mi

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Question about war spoils and elimination -- I was warring against an AI player (Slavic Federation) and captured 2 of its 3 cities. Not interested in a peace treaty. Another AI was also attacking this civ; they were already at war when I declared.

Suddenly it occurred to me that if I waited -- let the other AI take the last city -- then the AI would be eliminated and I would not get any war spoils. So I gathered some troops and took the last city, eliminating that AI. I got a tech, some energy, and some diplo capital.

Does anyone know what happens if your opponent in a war is eliminated, but not by you? Would all the war spoils go to the eliminating player (either human or AI)? Is it different in single player or multi player?
 

vorlon_mi

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Another question -- regarding BERT agreements. Say I get two copies of the same agreement from different AI, as shown in this screen shot.
20220730220537_1.jpg


Do the benefits from "Strategic Supply Network" stack? Or do I receive the benefits of one, not both?
 

vorlon_mi

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I tried to get the "Ramming Speed" Steam achievement by moving my aquatic city onto an alien (Coral). The city killed the alien, but I didn't get the achievement. Does it have to be an AI unit, not alien? That would require some tricky timing, wouldn't it? Does the "kill" happen on the first turn of the city moving, or the last turn of the move?
Succeeded in getting the Steam achievement last night. I killed one of the bigger Hydracoral -- not the little star-shaped one, but the larger one that looks like a tree. The kill did happen on the last turn of the city move.
 

MarqFJA87

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After getting back to this game following a couple of years leaving it untouched, I've noticed this weird phenomenon happening in my playthroughs: sometimes when I declare war on a civ, my submarines in the middle of the ocean find themselves exposed as for some unexplained reason, the hex they're in and most of the hexes around them are covered with the yellow eye symbol denoting that the tile is within range of something that will expose invisible units. Except there are no cities in the vicinity (like I said, this often happens in the middle of the ocean), and oftentimes there are no units nearby; hell, even when there are units that could plausibly have gained the invisibility detection perk, they're usually 3 or more hexes away, and the maximum detection range (with the right perk) is 2 hexes. And it couldn't be any Spy Satellites, because those can't detect invisible units anyway, and AFAIK I should've been able to see that there is one just by switching to the orbital layer.

Does anyone know what the hell is causing this?
 

legalizefreedom

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That's weird @vorlon_mi , I didn't think the game would let you get two of the same agreement, but perhaps I've just not considered it.

@MarqFJA87 I would bet they are enemy submarines.
 

vorlon_mi

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@MarqFJA87 I have also seen that. When I declared on one of the AI (Africa, not that it matters), I could suddenly see their subs. At peace, I would often see a red dot in a hex, indicating that I couldn't move there. I assumed it was an AI sub, but didn't know which faction. Once war is declared, any of my ships can see a sub if they are adjacent to it. The game seems to have a IFF (Identify Friend Foe) transponder, sorta.

@legalizefreedom the restriction seems to be one way. I can make an agreement -- a specific one -- with one AI at a time. If I try to propose the same agreement with a second AI, the game won't let me do that. But each of the AI can propose the same agreement multiple times with me. In many games, I will have 3 AI friendly enough to be "Cooperating", and they all want to do "Skunkworks". In last night's game, at least two AI wanted to do "Neopatriotism", where one earns culture for each unit killed.
 

MarqFJA87

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@MarqFJA87 I would bet they are enemy submarines.
But submarines can't detect other submarines unless they're adjacent, though. And I would've seen them if they can see me, too.

@MarqFJA87 I have also seen that. When I declared on one of the AI (Africa, not that it matters), I could suddenly see their subs. At peace, I would often see a red dot in a hex, indicating that I couldn't move there. I assumed it was an AI sub, but didn't know which faction. Once war is declared, any of my ships can see a sub if they are adjacent to it. The game seems to have a IFF (Identify Friend Foe) transponder, sorta.
Yeah, all units can detect submarines if they are in an adjacent tile. Cities too, and they can extend their range with the Sonar Net building.
 

vorlon_mi

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Another question -- regarding BERT agreements. Say I get two copies of the same agreement from different AI, as shown in this screen shot. View attachment 635849

Do the benefits from "Strategic Supply Network" stack? Or do I receive the benefits of one, not both?
In answer to my own question, I think that I only get the benefit from one agreement. At different times I had one or two AI who wanted "Neopatriotism", where culture is earned for each kill. I was getting some culture with each kill -- the aliens were super angry, red, for the last 80 turns -- and that number didn't change. Various AI would cancel their agreements with me, re-propose them, and I don't think the number changed.
 

legalizefreedom

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@legalizefreedom the restriction seems to be one way. I can make an agreement -- a specific one -- with one AI at a time. If I try to propose the same agreement with a second AI, the game won't let me do that. But each of the AI can propose the same agreement multiple times with me. In many games, I will have 3 AI friendly enough to be "Cooperating", and they all want to do "Skunkworks". In last night's game, at least two AI wanted to do "Neopatriotism", where one earns culture for each unit killed.

That would explain it.

But submarines can't detect other submarines unless they're adjacent, though. And I would've seen them if they can see me, too.

Is there an upgrade you can get that will increase the detection range?
 

MarqFJA87

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Is there an upgrade you can get that will increase the detection range?
AFAIK, no. None of the Artifacts or Wonders that I could look up do anything to expand the detection radius, even the one(s) that extend the normal sight range of units (and I've built that one, and didn't get to expose any enemy submarines during war from beyond two tiles). The units that do have the ability to detect non-adjacent invisible units can only do so up to 2 tiles away.

I actually assumed that the enemy civ had a Spy Satellite over the area my sub was in, because the "danger" zone shown after I clicked the Move command to retreat my exposed sub covered enough tiles around it to merit that possibility. Yet when I checked the specs for spy satellites, I learned that they cannot detect invisible units anyway, and even moving an anti-orbital unit across the offending area failed to show an opportunity for anti-orbital strike.
 
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legalizefreedom

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If it is subs (perhaps the AI cheats) the give away is that you go to move and there's this one spot you can't move to for no obvious reason.
 

MarqFJA87

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If it is subs (perhaps the AI cheats) the give away is that you go to move and there's this one spot you can't move to for no obvious reason.
Unlikely, since you'd think the offending sub would attack mine in that case, given that neither did any subs try to opportunistically attack, nor any of the danger zone ever change tiles while my sub was escaping to safety (it usually took 2-3 turns to do so due to the presence of enemy ships, as I was parking the sub just 2-3 tiles away from the enemy city for scouting purposes).
 

MarqFJA87

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So I just got the quest that asks the player to "build roads that connect 2 cities" to their capital. The only problem is that my capital is on a tiny island with no real room for plopping down 2 cities in any worthwhile way. Should I just write off that quest as undoable? Or does connecting two land cities to a coastal one (which, due to my capital's coastal placement, would automatically connect them) suffice?
 

legalizefreedom

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Building another coastal city should connect them, but I'm not sure if that quest will accept it. Seems like this is one of the weird quests that was fixed (or eliminated) with the Awesome Pods and Ruins mod, which is the only mod I use.
 

vorlon_mi

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I'm still playing the unmodded game, though I'm tempted to use Awesome Pods and Ruins. Yes, occasionally, I get quests that I can't complete. The most common case is the "kill the Siege Worm" quest. They only appear in the early- to mid-game on larger land masses. If I see one, I get the quest. But if I'm starting on smaller islands, or focusing on aquatic cities, I might not get my troops over to the worm before the AI have them all killed off. Later in the game, I often see Makaras as the only colossal aliens. The AI kill off all the Krakens and Worms.

To your point, I have had games where I play North Sea Alliance where I can't build roads because all my cities are coastal (on small islands) or aquatic.
 

MarqFJA87

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I feel your pain. Your only hope for the siege worm quest is to use the Colossus Strike covert op on another civ's land city (which requires level 11/10 Harmony depending on whether you're playing base game or RT) and have a bunch of troops ready nearby to quickly kill one of the three worms that spawn from a success (savescum if you have to, the outcome of a covert op isn't predetermined unless you're doing Hack Satellites and there are zero satellites to be hacked within a 5 tile radius).
 

legalizefreedom

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The title "Awesome Pods and Ruins" doesn't describe what all it does. Yes, it fixes the rewards and makes them go to the nearest city instead of all to the cap, but the biggest thing it does, IMO, is fix the quests. That is the most valuable aspect of it and why I don't play without it. You will be amazed at all the cool quests that aren't working in the retail version.

There is also an option to gate the powerful ruins behind a quest project that must be built in order to see them, which I think is a great addition as well.
 
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