Quick Questions and Answers

[legalizefreedom]

Yeah, I personally prefer to let the station live because only 2-3 stations spawn per game anyway, and keeping the station around to trade with benefits me more in the long run.

I don't think I got that quest you mentioned before; it's definitely preferable to the one that explicitly asks me to destroy the target station.

Unrelated, but if anyone has feedback for this, I would very much appreciate it. I don't like the lack of challenge from the AI on the lower difficulties, but playing on Gemini against 8 players surprised me with how it's easy to lag behind everyone and be hated by half the leaders just on my colony's performance and army size alone. I thought it wouldn't be much different after having managed 4 and 6 player matches on this difficulty, but evidently I am wrong.

You should expect the AI sponsors are getting up-front bonuses. They WILL be ahead of you in the first half of the game. Some games you will pass them earlier, some later, but if you focus on growth in all areas, you will pass them. You just have to build enough military units to sway their opinion and defend yourself.

If I'm planning to attack the aliens, it usually happens around 125, maybe a bit later if I'm still trying to get the aliens=science virtue. That is a dual purpose to get my military up to speed.

 

[MarqFJA87]

You should expect the AI sponsors are getting up-front bonuses. They WILL be ahead of you in the first half of the game. Some games you will pass them earlier, some later, but if you focus on growth in all areas, you will pass them. You just have to build enough military units to sway their opinion and defend yourself.

If I'm planning to attack the aliens, it usually happens around 125, maybe a bit later if I'm still trying to get the aliens=science virtue. That is a dual purpose to get my military up to speed.

Yeah, I knew that they're getting bonuses; the tooltip said as much. But the previous two games weren't this bad in how fast I lagged behind, or how many would come to hate my guts to the point of declaring war just because I "fail" in their eyes so badly (until this match, this only happened in the late game, when clashing geopolitical interests and wonder envy turned yesterday's friends into today's enemies); I guess I got a bit lucky in them with initial placement of myself and/or the AIs.

Turn 125... Is this on standard speed?

 

[vorlon_mi]

Yeah, I knew that they're getting bonuses; the tooltip said as much. But the previous two games weren't this bad in how fast I lagged behind, or how many would come to hate my guts to the point of declaring war just because I "fail" in their eyes so badly (until this match, this only happened in the late game, when clashing geopolitical interests and wonder envy turned yesterday's friends into today's enemies); I guess I got a bit lucky in them with initial placement of myself and/or the AIs.

Turn 125... Is this on standard speed?

In most of my games, the AI get mad enought at me to actually declare war because a) I've settled a city too close to them or b) I've really neglected building units or c) both. The late game objectors -- when I'm working to win -- are a whole different set of reasons.

 

[legalizefreedom]

Yeah, I knew that they're getting bonuses; the tooltip said as much. But the previous two games weren't this bad in how fast I lagged behind, or how many would come to hate my guts to the point of declaring war just because I "fail" in their eyes so badly (until this match, this only happened in the late game, when clashing geopolitical interests and wonder envy turned yesterday's friends into today's enemies); I guess I got a bit lucky in them with initial placement of myself and/or the AIs.

Turn 125... Is this on standard speed?

Yes, standard speed, huge map, frenzied aliens. But obviously don't crank them up if they are already enough. I've been playing for many years.

 

[Protok St]

I guess it's too complicated for a programming novice like me, huh?

Nothing is impossible. You can do it. Just start and share at least 30 minutes a day.

On an unrelated note, something that annoys me greatly and boggles my mind at the same time is how whenever I get the Growth Potential quest (create trade route with a station), the next turn I immediately get Hostile Takeover (destroy a station) that targets the same station that is the subject of Growth Potential, and the same goes if I got the latter quest first. Worse still, so far it's always been that the issuing station is the same for both quests. You'd think it would've been a no-brainer to make such a paradoxical combination impossible to happen.

I believe the mutually exclusive choice between these two quests is by devs design.

 

[Jeppetto]

Probably stupid question after all this time, but does AI get the starting bonuses (choosing their own)? Like colonists, spaceship, etc? If yes is it random from pool of the same options (even if one is added through a mod) or like religion that a particular leader has a favourite choice?

 

[vorlon_mi]

Probably stupid question after all this time, but does AI get the starting bonuses (choosing their own)? Like colonists, spaceship, etc? If yes is it random from pool of the same options (even if one is added through a mod) or like religion that a particular leader has a favourite choice?

I've not read that confirmed anywhere. I do recall that the BE "sequential landing" option -- which may be the default -- gives more bonuses to the sponsors which land later. More units, IIRC. That implies that if one chooses the "Don't Stagger Starts" option, all of the AI will start with the same bonus, based on difficulty level.

 

[xzu]

Hi,

I'm ten years late to the party. SMACX is one of my favourite games of all time, so it seems odd that it took so long. But oh well. Been playing for about a week now, and I'd have a couple of questions.

Firstly, is there a way to name your outpost before it grows into a city? Seems kinda odd if that's impossible, but I haven't figured out a way yet.

Secondly, how do the buildings requiring special resources work exactly? It's been a bit confusing, because in some of my cities certain buildings don't show up in the build menu, which makes sense if they don't have required stuff in their tiles... But in other cities they do show up, the requirement highlighted in red, meaning they're currently unbuildable. And then there are cities where the building appears even though the requirement doesn't seem to exist. Like my third city in my current game. Size 16, and it has the following resources inside its claimed area: two of 2x Firaxite, two of Fungus, a 2x Titanium, a 2x Xenomass, and a Shell. Yet, a Biofactory is available for building, even though it requires a workable, improved source of Petroleum. I figured it shouldn't show up, but I noticed that the city has an international trade route that provides Petroleum, so is that why it shows up?

And does such a building use up one of the resource? Or is it only the buildings like Bioglass Furnace that say like "Firaxite cost: 2"? And is it only the construction that uses the resource, or is it only running the building, or both? And how does it work for units, is it only for construction, only for maintenance, or for both?

Thirdly, how big can cities grow? How many tiles can they claim? I assumed it's three tiles in a direction, but I've seen some cities form panhandles to strategic resources that are four tiles away.

Also, is there a way to choose the tile that's claimed upon border growth from culture?

And eh, what determines the cost of purchasing tiles with energy? It seems to climb after each purchase, but I've also noticed some tiles are more expensive than others. Why?

In SMAC, the unit designer was one of the greatest functions for me. How do the upgrades work here? Specifically, is there a way to revert an upgrade and choose another path? It would also kind of make sense to be able to make two different submarine variants for different purposes, but no?

Finally, how's the balance? Like, on first glance, Pan-Asiatic Cooperative's unique that provides free wonders seems kind of OP to me. Is it so?

 

[Tiberiu]

Partial answer to your question : I believe that getting resources through trade routes enables some if not all of the buildings that require those resources.

Cities grow up to 5 tiles but can only work up to 3 tiles away from city center.

Balance is ok ish but it is pretty reasonable to accept that the 2 spy based factions are better than average.
The 1-turn Wonders are also a bit OP, but only some of the wonders are very good.
Polystralia is also seen as pretty powerful, there are strong synergies for trade routes that can snowball your colony pretty quickly.

Hope any of this helps, good luck and have fun!

 

[xzu]

Partial answer to your question : I believe that getting resources through trade routes enables some if not all of the buildings that require those resources.

Alright, thanks. Makes sense, I suppose. I guess if they're so easy to get, then they also get used up easily. What happens if the trade route is cancelled though? Does the building go offline or something?

Cities grow up to 5 tiles but can only work up to 3 tiles away from city center.

Okay, right. I guess this makes sense too, if you're bordering someone and all.

 

[vorlon_mi]

Hi,

I'm ten years late to the party. SMACX is one of my favourite games of all time, so it seems odd that it took so long. But oh well. Been playing for about a week now, and I'd have a couple of questions.

Firstly, is there a way to name your outpost before it grows into a city? Seems kinda odd if that's impossible, but I haven't figured out a way yet.

Secondly, how do the buildings requiring special resources work exactly? It's been a bit confusing, because in some of my cities certain buildings don't show up in the build menu, which makes sense if they don't have required stuff in their tiles... But in other cities they do show up, the requirement highlighted in red, meaning they're currently unbuildable. And then there are cities where the building appears even though the requirement doesn't seem to exist. Like my third city in my current game. Size 16, and it has the following resources inside its claimed area: two of 2x Firaxite, two of Fungus, a 2x Titanium, a 2x Xenomass, and a Shell. Yet, a Biofactory is available for building, even though it requires a workable, improved source of Petroleum. I figured it shouldn't show up, but I noticed that the city has an international trade route that provides Petroleum, so is that why it shows up?

And does such a building use up one of the resource? Or is it only the buildings like Bioglass Furnace that say like "Firaxite cost: 2"? And is it only the construction that uses the resource, or is it only running the building, or both? And how does it work for units, is it only for construction, only for maintenance, or for both?

Thirdly, how big can cities grow? How many tiles can they claim? I assumed it's three tiles in a direction, but I've seen some cities form panhandles to strategic resources that are four tiles away.

Also, is there a way to choose the tile that's claimed upon border growth from culture?

And eh, what determines the cost of purchasing tiles with energy? It seems to climb after each purchase, but I've also noticed some tiles are more expensive than others. Why?

In SMAC, the unit designer was one of the greatest functions for me. How do the upgrades work here? Specifically, is there a way to revert an upgrade and choose another path? It would also kind of make sense to be able to make two different submarine variants for different purposes, but no?

Finally, how's the balance? Like, on first glance, Pan-Asiatic Cooperative's unique that provides free wonders seems kind of OP to me. Is it so?

Renaming: I think that the only way to rename a city is from within the city screen. That would mean that you can't rename the outpost until it is "full grown."

Resource Usage: Yes, both buildings and units that have a per-turn cost do tie up / lay claim to some of your supply of those resources. I remember not being able to build CNDRs because I had tied up all my Firaxite. Late in the game, getting to one of the Level 3 virtues in the Might tree will increase your supply of strategic resources, "Brutal Efficiency". I also remember being given a quest to build a Microbial Mine in city XXX, but that city had no Xenomass in its available tiles. So the Microbial Mine never showed up in the build list. Bug in the quest; doesn't happen very often.

I've grown my cities to size 20 or so, organically. I've never really tried to pump up a city with food trade routes, to see how big it will get. Building one of the artifact wonders (Drone Command) lets you work more tiles than you have citizens.

Purchasing Tiles with Energy: Yes, I have bought tiles for a "panhandle". I have also moved aquatic cities several times, leaving a trail of improved (but unworkable) tiles behind. The closer-in tiles are cheaper. Yes, the price goes up a little for each purchase. I've not figured out a way to "guide" the algorithm for growth by culture. The price also seems to depend on the distance from the city center, or original city center if the aquatic city has moved.

Balance: I've tried tracking AI behavior across multiple games. I have a few general observations:

• AI success has a LOT to do with the fertility of their initial start. I've seen several sponsors -- Hutama, Lena, Elodie. Samatar -- expand to an empire that includes 7-8 cities if the terrain support it. Others, especially Chungsu and NSA, rarely grow above 3 cities.
• Polystralia offers a boost to growth, with trade routes; the AI handles it reasonably well. Chungsu starts with a spy, but it's hard to get a lot of benefit from it, since the initial missions take so many turns to finish.
• Both Brasil and Slavic Federation tend to be warmongers. Sometimes that stifles their growth, if they spend too much production on units.
• Pan African Union loves to grow, rarely attacks its neighbors, but always seems to object when I start a victory wonder.
• Pan Asia *should* have a lock on wonders with her unique ability, but the AI doesn't use the ability well. I've used her when I want to get the Steam achievement for wonder building

Unit Upgrades: I don't know any way to "walk back" an upgrade. One can delay taking an upgrade (level 2 or level 3), if you want a different option than the one on offer. Some units (aircraft, artillery) only upgrade using one affinity. Others (infantry, tanks, naval) can be upgraded using a single affinity or mixed affinity. I've sometimes been surprised when I can get a "shortcut" to a level 3 affinity using mixed affinity. But (like the Civ5 policies) once you have chosen an upgrade, it sticks for the rest of this game.

 

[MarqFJA87]

Speaking of strategic resources, I've had this rare problem where a city should have access to Xenomass/Firaxite/Floatstone due to it being within 3 hexes and an alien nest on it while I have managed to attain friendly status with the aliens, yet a building that require said resource access cannot be built. I think I even tried removing the nest and then improving the resource normally, and it didn't work. Any idea what could be causing this?

 

[xzu]

Renaming: I think that the only way to rename a city is from within the city screen. That would mean that you can't rename the outpost until it is "full grown."

That's sort of a bummer...

I have also moved aquatic cities several times, leaving a trail of improved (but unworkable) tiles behind.

Hmm, so is there a limit to how many times they can move?

 

[vorlon_mi]

That's sort of a bummer...


Hmm, so is there a limit to how many times they can move?

No, not theoretically.

Practically, a moving city will eventually run out of water tiles to move onto. In a big ocean, especially on a Protean planet, you may be able to move a city 10 times.

A more subtle point: a city can only work as many tiles as it has citizens. This is the case for nearly all games in the Civ franchise.
So, if your aquatic city has 7 citizens (for example) and you have moved it 4 times, some of the original hexes that were worked may be out of range.

One of our CivFanatics @s0nny80y proposed an interesting tactic to take advantage of that. https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/hawaiian-island-chain-strategy.687373/ As you keep moving your first city, found a second aquatic city on the original site. Poof! it will have access to the previous improvements which are still there.

 

[legalizefreedom]

You can continue to move aquatic cities if you like. There is no limit.

@vorlon_mi An average water city of mine moves 10 times or so just to make the round and get settled. Sometimes just for fun with a captured city (and probably badly placed by the AI) I just move and paint the map for the rest of the game. Once optimized, cities can move in 1 or 2 turns, so you can paint quite a lot. Including claiming for other cities (esp land based cities that are slower to grow). You can paint the entire coast and your land cities will explode.

See now I gotta start another game.

 

[vorlon_mi]

A really interesting idea -- paintng the ocean, that is, claiming tiles for your empire, even if you can't work them. Or don't intend to work them. You're correct, of course, that there is no game-imposed limit on the number of times a city can move.

For my aquatic cities, I want them for producing navy ships. They get a discount for producting them. That means I want them to grow (have enough citizens to get production up) and to claim useful resources in the ocean. But if they're moving, they're not producing ships. Once or twice in a game, I will buy a hex rather than move the city. When the city moves, it destroys whatever improvement was under it. That means a few worker turns to rebuild it, which feels mildly wasteful.

But a city and a worker, moving along, improving the coastline behind it.... that's intriguing. One could plant coastal cities after the aquatic city has passed by, to gte around the proximity limit.