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Quick thought about that Wonder gets built the turn before...

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by steve_indy, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. steve_indy

    steve_indy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
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    So, if your Wonder gets sniped the turn before, it just goes away and turns into a pile of gold. It's not at all realistic, which is not necessarily an issue. And it does sometimes create an interesting dynamic, but it's a little tough to plan this because the Wonders can take so long, so sometimes it's just a dynamic and isn't strategically interesting. I prefer interesting dynamics that also drive a strategic response.

    I was thinking that second-rate Wonders could be completed that give a smaller benefit rather than the full benefit. There would be a number of ways to implement something like this - I'm not really tied to one. I'd just like to see something more interesting/less devastating than the pile-of-gold business.

    A few thoughts - 1) each Wonder has a list of bonuses, first to build gets first pick (sort of like the religion dynamic); 2) Each second-built Wonder gets a specified lesser benefit (maybe even decreasing for third, etc.); 3) All production on that Wonder stops when built, and the benefit is tied to percent-completion; 4) any second-built Wonder becomes a generic improvement tile (like a cultural improvement), perhaps tied to the theme of the Wonder.

    There are a few management issues, like perhaps a built Wonder cannot be started by anyone else after it's built. I don't imagine there will be any energy around actually doing this at Firaxis, but it seems an interesting thought exercise to see if this can be done better than it is today.
     
  2. stormerne

    stormerne is just a Retired Moderator

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    It almost sounds like you'd enjoy a return to the National Wonder mechanic we had in Civ IV and Civ V, except that in Civ VI they would be on their own tiles like World Wonders now are.
     
  3. UWHabs

    UWHabs Chieftain

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    Yeah, it's always weird when my empire simply decides to abandon building a giant pyramid just because someone else in a far away land that I've never met before completed a similar one. I like the idea of each wonder turning into a sort of unique tile improvement with a more limited effect. So, for example, the pyramids secondary effect would be that you get the bonus charge on your workers for maybe 30 turns * the pct you've completed it. So if you're 90% done, you don't get the free worker or permanent bonus, but you still get 27 turns of bonus to workers. Of course, then you have to define a secondary bonus for every wonder, and have a way to limit them based on how much you have completed of the wonder, but would at least potentially give something for partially completing a wonder.
     
  4. Naokaukodem

    Naokaukodem Millenary King

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
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    2,997
    Something popped up in my head while reading this thread.

    • The wonders uniqueness is partially because of the tourism or fascination they generate in modern eras : the more impressive they are, the more alike they will be called wonders of the world and attract tourists.
    • The wonders uniqueness is partially because of their greatness in their genre, by their mystery or splendor, or simply unique in a sense that they are a firm demonstration of power and prosperity

    The first point is demonstrated ingame by time retroaction, which is not ideal. (the wonder switch of Civ2 was more realistic, but yet not quite because you could change totally the shape of it without losing a single shield) The second is alike, because one building can be declared the greatest only by knowledge of whole buildings of Earth.
    The second point though denotes "pharaonic" and absolute wills. It's not necessarily by comparison with other similar buildings, it's particularly according to the constant sense of astoundingness the human being have always developed and kept the same through the ages, like a kind a (human-)subjective objectivity. Of course this is affected by the degree of conservation of said wonders or by the exhaustive(?) knowledge we have of them through History books.

    Now, I've done my wiki search. It appears that the 7 wonders of the world are all antique. They were near the seas, so that travellers could easily dispatch their knowledge throughout the globe. The list of those 7 wonders have being established pretty chaoticly and arbitrarily by a relatively well preserved document. Of course the number 7 is quite esoteric.

    Now then, my previous remarks remain. Civ developers must have followed what I described above more or less. Why is there wonders ? Answer in the two first points I made.

    Now, why a wonder being built in the other side of the world could prevent us to continue building the one we are currently building ? Because they are the exact same, with the exact same bonuses.

    So wonders of the world in Civ shouldn't be all the same for everybody, which means either they should all be national UNIQUE wonders, either they could differ slightly from one civ to another, still having the same basis, based principally on the conditions like religion, policies, governments, luxury resources, environments, etc. Just like in Civ6 but much more tightened yet. Or, a particular Grrat Person should be needed to their construction, as all great persons are unique. Instead of directly competing for production and prioritization of tech and construction, you would work on Great Persons, be them emperors or kings. Which may lead to another type of Great Persons.
     

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