Quran Burning - Chaos Erupts In Afghanistan
- Thread starter FriendlyFire
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holy king
Deity
well, talk about a butterfly and a tornado...
Yes, of course.
Though I'm not sure the comparison you're setting up is totally apt. I support the pastor's right to burn a Quran, that is after all freedom of speech. I don't support making a show of it when your intent is to cause riots elsewhere. If expressing my support of gay rights was libel to cause a riot, I would not like being shut up, but it would be within the rights of the police to stop me.
In the same sense, I have the right to burn the American flag in the US, but burning it on Memorial Day at a ceremony held at a war cemetery would probably not be covered by the First.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=HzF...nepage&q=Sufyan al-Thawri on apostasy&f=false
And that's from a guy who was born in 711.
The point is apostasy hasn't always, nor is today universally, a death sentence. After all, one of the most famous verses in the Quran, Al-Baqara 256, notes "there is no compulsion in religion."
I think the complicity of the reporters is pretty strong.
druidravi
King
[QUOTE ]http://books.google.ca/books?id=HzF...nepage&q=Sufyan al-Thawri on apostasy&f=false
And that's from a guy who was born in 711.
The point is apostasy hasn't always, nor is today universally, a death sentence. After all, one of the most famous verses in the Quran, Al-Baqara 256, notes "there is no compulsion in religion."[/QUOTE]
Thank you . Will give it a read .
And that's from a guy who was born in 711.
The point is apostasy hasn't always, nor is today universally, a death sentence. After all, one of the most famous verses in the Quran, Al-Baqara 256, notes "there is no compulsion in religion."[/QUOTE]
Thank you . Will give it a read .
As much as General Patreus if his reputation is anything to go by hates to say 'I told you so'...
In other words: 'Some muslims with loud voices are terrorists. Muslims shouldn't take their religion so seriously' or 'I hate these Jehovah's Witnesses who come round my house, why do all those Christians take their religion so seriously?'
In other words: 'Some muslims with loud voices are terrorists. Muslims shouldn't take their religion so seriously' or 'I hate these Jehovah's Witnesses who come round my house, why do all those Christians take their religion so seriously?'
Akka
Moody old mage.
What, is this not enough PR for you ?
I highly dislike religious fanatics. The fact that the first douchebag is also one doesn't mean I think any better about the murderous retards that he refers to.
RedRalph
Deity
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That makes more sense.
BuckeyeJim
King
You're not comparing Jehovah's Witnesses to extremist Muslims who murdered a bunch of innocent people yesterday... did you?
Singularity
Infinite Density
Afghanistan will never be able to police itself, and us trying is simply laughable.
We should just cover the country in drone surveillance and declare it outlawed territory, and nip the next al-Qaeda training camps with a few hundred air fuel bombs. Intervention is pointless, and so is policing it on the ground.
Qur'an burning fools in US is just a very minor distraction. An insane one, but still just a distraction.
And finally, if the west so should choose to make this an Islam thing it will mutate into it. It's nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with a region composed of tribal cultures that loves to hurt themselves, and have done so for thousands of years.
Yes, I am sick of Afghanistan. And my heart cries for all the innocent women and children who will continue to suffer there.
We should just cover the country in drone surveillance and declare it outlawed territory, and nip the next al-Qaeda training camps with a few hundred air fuel bombs. Intervention is pointless, and so is policing it on the ground.
Qur'an burning fools in US is just a very minor distraction. An insane one, but still just a distraction.
And finally, if the west so should choose to make this an Islam thing it will mutate into it. It's nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with a region composed of tribal cultures that loves to hurt themselves, and have done so for thousands of years.
Yes, I am sick of Afghanistan. And my heart cries for all the innocent women and children who will continue to suffer there.
In that they're a tiny minority of their religion and yet far more vocal (at least where I live) than most of the rest put together - yes. The point is that you can't use the actions of some to give a lecture to the rest of them.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
I think this incident just highlights the dangers of apparently unrestrained mob violence. It is present in any situation where the authorities are either too slow or deliberately don't act at all to control the protesters. There were similar demonstrations in Kabul, Herat, Bamian, and Kandahar. While some of the demonstrators there were quite angry as well, no mob violence occurred. This sort of mob violence happened all the time in Nazi Germany and in the South after the Civil War.
I also think that people are ignoring or downplaying the other factors which contributed to this incident. The US has been occupying Afghanistan for 9 years now. While Afghans were understandably upset over this one bigot's actions, they were really protesting for a multitude of reasons.
This Quran burning was just the trigger.
From 2009:
Link to video.
I also think that people are ignoring or downplaying the other factors which contributed to this incident. The US has been occupying Afghanistan for 9 years now. While Afghans were understandably upset over this one bigot's actions, they were really protesting for a multitude of reasons.
This Quran burning was just the trigger.
From 2009:
Link to video.
What certainly won't change are those who hate Islam and look for any excuse to vilify a mainstream religion practiced by over one billion people.
That pastor's action was dumb and irresponsible. He had right to do it, esp. since burning etc Bible is nothing special these days. But it was irresponsible, because one knows such thing would happen. Still, it was not him to kill these people. And in fact the response only proves that there's a problem with radicalism within islam.
Also, it is claimed by many muslims that "freedom of religion" does not encompass freedom to renounce islam. Indeed, muslim countries were against mentioning changing religion as a human right by UN. May I cite another part of Al-Qur'an, which is more precise:
"They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected, and thus that you all become like one another. So take not friends from them, till they emigrate in the way of Allah. But if they turn back (from islam), take them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither friends not helpers from them." An-Nisa' 89
The hadiths have some proofs as what is ordained for apostates as well.
One brings us a story about people who denounced islam and killed some shephard. Muhammad ordered their hands and feet cut off (and left not cauterised), their eyes branded with a piece of iron. After which they were left that way until they died in agony.
in another, Muhammad is displeased with Ali who burned an apostate. But not for killing him: no, that he orders himself. But for using fire.
Completely erroneous comparison.
Also, it is claimed by many muslims that "freedom of religion" does not encompass freedom to renounce islam. Indeed, muslim countries were against mentioning changing religion as a human right by UN. May I cite another part of Al-Qur'an, which is more precise:
"They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected, and thus that you all become like one another. So take not friends from them, till they emigrate in the way of Allah. But if they turn back (from islam), take them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither friends not helpers from them." An-Nisa' 89
The hadiths have some proofs as what is ordained for apostates as well.
One brings us a story about people who denounced islam and killed some shephard. Muhammad ordered their hands and feet cut off (and left not cauterised), their eyes branded with a piece of iron. After which they were left that way until they died in agony.
in another, Muhammad is displeased with Ali who burned an apostate. But not for killing him: no, that he orders himself. But for using fire.
Completely erroneous comparison.
BuckeyeJim
King
What's "mainstream"? And what number of adherents have to do with anything?
aelf
Ashen One
And we find the usual suspects here trying to push their anti-Islamic agenda. Voices from Eastern Europe are joining the Western chorus too - not enough Gypsies to hate these days? 
Crappy crazy countries with crazy laws. Any surprise? Incidentally, the most populous Muslim country is missing from that list. Also, I think Pakistan's case is a bit contentious.
Crappy crazy countries with crazy laws. Any surprise? Incidentally, the most populous Muslim country is missing from that list. Also, I think Pakistan's case is a bit contentious.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
In other words why shouldn't people vilify Islam for the acts of a handful of people, many of whom were responding to entirely secular issues?
GhostWriter16
Deity
Protestants...
This is not all Protestants.... I am a Protestant of sorts (I don't really call myself one) but I don't burn Qu'rans
that is too funny.@Aelf- Wikipedia is wrong on Syria, proselyting from Islam is technically allowed there (It is discouraged and sometimes family persecution occurs, but no Death Penalty for it), I wouldn't call Somalia's militia killing you a death penalty, more like a murder, and I'll assume the rest of them are right since I don't know. However, I have a strong suspicion Pakistan's info is incorrect.
OK, again, maybe it's a bit unfair to compare the most hated religious sect in Britain to al-Queda, but I think the point that tarring a whole religion with the brush invited by their extremists is unfair. In the same way I doubt many atheists would be too happy with being accused of thinking, a la Dawkins (although I may be called out on this one), that religion was a force for evil in the world.
Come on then, I'll bite - even with the premise that 'arabs and muslims burn' means 'all arabs and all muslims support the burning of', why should 'one nation under God', whose son let us not forget gave us 'turn the other cheek', lower itself to their level?
You consider the American Flag to be a holy symbol? Serious question.
