[R&F] Balance Patch (Redux)

[acluewithout]

Hello!

I’ve been thinking of trying to put together a mod to tweak R&F, pulling together a number of different thread and some of my own thoughts. The idea is just to flesh out / deepen / 'lean into' a few mechanics, and overall just tweak balance a bit.

Proposed changes listed below – feel free to post comments. I’ll update this list based on the comments I receive.

A few points to note:

1. I’m trying to keep any changes small, and try to avoid new units, buildings, civics etc. First, because I think the balance in the base game is basically right (the game just needs a few tweaks). And second, because my technical ability is limited!

2. I’m proposing to tweak some civs for balance. But the objective is not to make all civs the same power; just to make sure none feel underwhelming.

3. There are somethings I’m against changing, because they are clearly basic design decisions by Firaxis (many of which I like in any event). These include: unit movement rules; 1UPT; and the number and names of governments.


Proposed changes:


1. (Re-) Balancing Civilizations

· England. New UA, ‘Sun Never Sets’. England receives +2 Trade Routes at Mercantilism. UA continues to unlock British Museum at Humanism. [Essentially England get the +2 Trade Routes previously available through Merchant Republic.]

· Norway. Norway’s UA ‘Knarr’ also grants +1 faith to all sea improvements for the Ancient to Medieval eras, in addition to its other benefits. After the Medieval, Knarr instead gives sea improvements +1 gold. [This buff should help Norway get a Pantheon faster.]

· Egypt. Egypt’s UA ‘Monumentality’ now gives Egypt a free monument in its Capital City if it starts in the Ancient Era, or a free Granary in the Classical Era, in addition to its other benefits.

· Spain. Phillip’s LA ‘El Escorial’ now grants +1 charge to Missionaries in addition to its other bonuses.

· Cree. The Cree’s UA ‘ Nihithaw’ continues to provide +1 trade route at Pottery, and allow Traders to grab tilesd. However, the UA now: (1) does not grant a free Trader at Pottery, but instead provides a 5% discount to building traders generally, and (2) grants a free scout unit when you start in the Ancient or Classical Era.

· Khmer. Grand Barays grants a 15% discount to building aequducts, in addition to its other bonuses.

· Georgia. The Tsikhe faith bonus is increased from +3 to +4. Strength in Unity provides an additional relic slot in the capital.


2. (Re-) Balancing Units

· Heavy Cavalry. Heavy Cavalry units no longer benefit from +%production cards or mercenaries card; so, you will also have to build them at full production, and pay full cost to upgrade them.

· Berserkers. Beserkers only get -2 to defence, instead of -7.

· Ngao Mbeba. Kongo’s unique unit’s strength is increased to 40, the same as a Legion. [Kongo’s UU are currently weaker than Swordsmen, which I think is just an oversight. I suggest making them as strong as Legions, which admittedly is very strong, but I think makes for lots of fun and shouldn’t be overpowered when considering Kongo overall.]


3. Districts, Buildings and Wonders

· Stonehenge no longer grants a Great Prophet. Instead, you get +2 GP points, and +1 faith for every Monument in your empire.

· Walls. Walls always now provide additional housing per level to all civilizations when they slot the "Castellation" policy card (n.b. Monarchy now gives additional loyalty). [This should make walls more useful overall.]

· Forts. Forts now give all units in the fort +1 vision; all ranged or bombard units garrisoned in a fort exert ZOC. [Forts seem a little underpowered, so I've suggested buffing them with the above change, and changes to the Bastions.]

· Mines and Quarries. Improving a Mine or Quarry reduces the food yield from this tile by 1. [Reducing food from Mines and Quarries should hopefully encourage building farms and other food related buildings - see Villages etc. below.]

· Watermill and Granaries. Watermill provides +1 production, and Granaries provide +1 food, to all trade routes to this city.

· City centre. Your city centre provides major adjacency bonuses to all districts after you research Steam. [Slightly helps tall play, and hopefully makes the discovery of steam feel more important - think of it like trains linking the city with its districts.]

· Aqueduct and Sewers. Aqueducts and Sewers provides +5% growth for cities.

· Neighbourhoods. Neighbourhoods provide a major adjacency bonus to all districts. Markets provides +4 food instead of +3.

· New Unique Improvement: Village. Unlocks at Construction. Can be built on grasslands, plains or tundra, but must be built adjacent to two farms or two sea resources. Cannot be built within 3 tiles of another village. This improvement can be worked, and provides + 0.5 housing, +1 production, (after Replaceable Parts) +2 gold , and (after Feudalism) adjacency to other farms. Additionally, each Village provides +1 food to all trade routes to this city, and provides minor adjacency bonus to Commercial Hub, Harbour, and Industrial Zone.

· Petra and St Basil's Cathedral provide +3 food to your city centre in addition to their other benefits. [This is to slightly off-set the reduced food yields from Mines and Quarries.]

· New Building: Court House. Court Houses unlock at Mathematics, and cost 300 to produce, maintenance 3. Can only be built in cities with at least 5 population. A city with a Court House and a Governor receives an additional +1 loyalty, which increases to +2 after you research Divine Right. [Court houses are expensive to produce, but become cheaper later through policy card.]


4. Governments, Government Plaza, and Government Buildings

· Oligarchy. Legacy Bonus for Oligarchy is now "Combat victories provide Science equal to 10% of the Combat Strength of the defeated unit". [This change means you can no longer 'stack' the combat bonus from Oligarchy, and makes this bonus harder to get overall (see "Warlord's Throne" below).]

· Monarchy. The Legacy Bonus for Monarchy is now +1 loyalty for each level of walls, and an additional +0.5 loyalty for each fort in your territory. [This makes Monarchy government the go-to government for dark ages and for boosting loyalty generally]

· Communism. Effect includes increased science per population (up to +0.7 per population), and no maintenance cost for Encampments or Industrial Zones or their buildings in addition to its other benefits. [I’ve suggested buffing this government, because Communism’s production bonus is weaker than Democracy’s, and the latter government gets better cards and other bonuses. My logic for this bonus is that Communist countries historically have had very strong maths and science education, and strong science research overall (although smarter more knowledgeable people can of course correct me on that if I’m wrong).]

· Audience Chamber. This building is now renamed "Altar". Building provides +2 loyalty to all cities with an established Governor, -2 loyalty to all cities without a Governor, and +1 Governor Title. Unlocks "Tradition Legacy" Policy Card (Wild Card), which gives +4 Housing and +1 Amenity to all cities with an established Governor.

· Ancestral Hall. This building is now renamed "Forum". Building reduces maintenance for all cities by 1, provides +1 loyalty for all cities on a foreign continent, and grants +1 Governor Title. -1 loyalty to all cities if you take the Autocracy, Monarchy or Communism governments. Unlocks "Liberty Legacy" Policy Card (Wild Card), which provides 50% increased Production towards Settlers and a free builder when you settle a new city. [I’ve suggested giving Audience Hall a negative to loyalty for certain governments so it parallels the negative loyalty the Audience Chamber gives for cities without a governor (ie so both buildings create trade-offs).]

· Warlord's Throne. This building is now renamed "Throne Room". Maintenance for land melee units reduced by 1, and +1 Governor Title. Unlocks "Honour Legacy" Policy Card (Wild Card), which provides +4 combat strength to all land melee, anti-cavalry, and naval melee class. [Conscription etc. policy cards have also been tweaked - see below.]

· Foreign Ministry. This building an additional trade route in addition to its other benefits.


5. Economy

· Self-determination. From the Renaissance Era onwards, the maintenance cost of all colonial cities is increased by 1 and, from the Modern Era onwards, all colonial cities receive -2 loyalty (colonial cities being cities on a foreign continent). Improved luxury resources in colonial cities receive an additional +1 gold. [This change and the change under "Bureaucracy" below are intended to make it get harder to keep your empire together as you progress through the eras, but not so much harder that it's not fun. The increased cost of Colonial Cities is slightly off-set if you build the "Forum" government building and change to Colonial Offices card.]

· Bureaucracy. City and district maintenance costs increase +1 gold once you select a second tier government, and +2 gold once you select a third tier government.


6. Additional Policy Cards

· Dark Age card “Star Chamber”, +X loyalty to all cities with a Court House (even if they don’t have a Governor), but -1 amenity in all cities (unlocks in Medieval and Renaissance eras).

· Economic Card, “Rule of Law”, receive 50% discount when purchasing a Court House (unlocks at Urbanisation).

· Economic Card “Charter of Rights”, +1 amenity to all cities with a Court House (even if they don’t have a Governor) (unlocks at Opera and Ballet).

· Military Card “Castellation”, each city receives +1 housing per level of walls; wall maintenance reduced by 1 (unlocks at Divine Right, obsoletes at Urbanization). [This should make walls more useful overall because you don't need Monarchy to get the bonus, and place a bit more pressure on which Military Card you slot. Castellation should also still synergise with Monarchy, as you can slot this card in one of Monarchy's extra military card slots.]

· Economic Card “Carta Mercatoria”, all Villages provide +1 gold [per adjacent bonus or luxury resource] and a major adjacency bonus to any adjacent district (unlocks at Guilds, obsoletes at Urbanization).

· “Colonial Offices” policy card now provides +1 culture from all colonial cities with either a market or a lighthouse, in addition to its other benefits.

· “Bastions” policy card provides +2 ranged attack bonus to all ranged and bombard units garrisoned in a fort, encampment or city centre, in addition to its other benefits.

· “Conscription” , and “Levée en Masse” policy cards only reduce maintenance costs of anti-cavalry, ranged and bombard units.

· See also additional Legacy Policy Cards described above.


7. Governors, Other Changes

· Settlers. Settlers now turn into builders when captured.

· Pantheon: Goddess of the Harvest. This now only gives faith equal to 75% of any resource you harvest.

· Military Tactics. Support bonus now unlocks at Military Tactics, not Military Honour.

· Magnus. “Groundbreaker” now provides +30% yields when you harvest a resource, and a flat +2 production. “Vertical Integration” extends the range of a factory in this city to 12 tiles, and the Industrial Zone in this city receives +gold equal to its adjacency bonus.

· Victor, Moksha. “Redoubt” and “Bishop” both provide +2 loyalty in addition to their existing benefits. [This should make Victor and Moksha stand out from the other governors more, and make them a bit more useful.]

[Edit: 25.02.18; 26.02.18; 27.02.18; 03.03.18; 05.03.18; 07.03.18; 08.03.18]

 

[acluewithout]

[re: 25.02.18 edit] I've suggested some additional changes to government buildings. These are intended to make these buildings slightly less cheesy. I'm assuming its possible to mod Tier-1 government buildings to unlock new legacy cards. If not, I might need to re-think these changes.

Comments are very welcome.

 

[acluewithout]

[re: 26.02.18 edit] I've suggested slightly buffing foreign ministry by adding a trade route, as there seems to be some views this building is a little underpowered. I've also thought a little more about rebalancing Renaissance and Industrial melee / anti-cav units and heavy / light cav, by giving Musketmen and P&S a slight combat bonus, and moving Cuirassiers later. Lastly, I've also played around with my suggestions on Tier-1 government buildings and colonial cities, and tried to slightly buff forts.

I've started looking at some modding guides. Looks ... achievable. I'll probably need to take this in stages - starting with civ buffs, and going from there.

 

[acluewithout]

One other thing I'd like to add is some new emergencies. Specifically, a "Imperialist Emergency" which is triggered if you conquer a city on another continent (target versus civs on the foreign continent), and an "Idealogical Emergency" which is triggered by sending a satellite into space or landing on the moon (target versus civs with different ideologies). I'm not sure how I would go about modding those so, for now, I haven't added them to the list.

 

[conorbebe]

Georgia needs a buff. What about making her walls give +1 Relic slot?

 

[acluewithout]

Thanks for the comments!

I agree Georgia needs some tweaking. I haven't had the chance to play them, so I don't know if they are weak or not. But from the thread discussing them, I think a real issue is that there is not enough incentive to build their unique building (the Tsikhe).

The general buffs to walls should indirectly boost Georgia. I've suggested also giving them an extra faith point from their walls (+3 versus +4). I think relic slots are very powerful, so I've suggested just giving them an extra relic slot in their capital.

 

[dunkleosteus]

Knights. Movement changed to 3, +1 if in open terrain. Equivalent UUs have same movement.

Did knights get wheels suddenly? Why are you giving them the chariot limitation when they don't have wheels?

Samurai. Samurai units are now treated as Heavy Cavalry.

That's not what a samurai is....

[This will make these units slightly stronger than Cuirassier and Calvary

Why in the world would you want to do that?? That completely defeats the purpose of cavalry and totally misrepresents what cavalry were.

and +2 faith for every Monument in your empire.

...That's incredibly powerful. I'll push 15+ cities after I start conquering. Why not make it like Jebel Bakar and give +2 faith for each monument in a certain tile radius?

+1 range after you research Ballistics

On forts? WHAT?? That's insane! That's so overpowered!! If you want forts to be more useful, make them function like an actual fort! Give them a health and shield bar (but no bombardment) just like a city with walls. The unit inside can safely attack without worrying about being overrun. Also give any unit inside zone of control, even if it normally wouldn't have ZoC. This would make forts useful strategically, helpful for shoring up any open or undefended borders and be way less broken than +1 range. With +1 range, you can bet I'm just going to build a bunch of forts at my enemy's borders and blast his city defenses to nothing and he won't be able to do jack about it.

· New Unique Improvement: Town. Unlocks at Construction. Can be built on grasslands, plains or tundra. +0.5 housing. Provides minor adjacency bonus to Commercial Hub, Harbor, Industrial Zone, and adjacency bonus to farms after feudalism.

I disagree with how this would function. A town is too similar to the neighborhood district unlocked with urbanization. I think you'd be better off if the town was a district that provided a small amount of flat housing (like 2 or 3) and then it could get extra housing by upgrading into a neighbourhood with urbanization.

Building provides +4 Housing in your Capital and to all cities within 9 tiles of your capital,

Housing is supposed to be a limiting factor in Civ. You're SUPPOSED to hit the ceiling. Giving that much free housing that early in the game is not a fun feature, it just negates a game mechanic.

unlocks at Urbanisation

Courthouses existed weeeeeelllll before that.

This now only gives faith equal to 75% of any resource you harvest, and only in the Ancient and Classical Era.

This makes the pantheon nearly useless. Pantheons are great because you keep them regardless of what religion you get. Unlike Civ 5, faith isn't used to buy Great Prophets, you need great prophet points. This pantheon doesn't help you get a great prophet and if you miss out on getting a religion, your pantheon is completely worthless after the classical era: you can't use your religion to optimize the faith output of your cities (with abilities like reliquaries or pilgrimage) so your overall faith output/use will be low. You'll basically have nothing to show for picking this pantheon. At least other pantheons which finish after the classical era are immediately useful: the bonus production to military units could help you win early wars. With this pantheon, you'll be able to generate a mediocre amount of faith. You can't get any abilities which let you buy units with faith until later, so the faith doesn't really DO much. You'd be better off if you just set the amount of faith created by clearing features or resources to a flat amount by game speed and don't scale it by era like harvest yields are.

 

[acluewithout]

Thanks for the comments!

Did knights get wheels suddenly? Why are you giving them the chariot limitation when they don't have wheels?

I hadn't really thought of the limitation as relating to wheels, but I guess that's right - I've deleted my suggestion on Knights. My intention was to nerf Heavy Cavalry slightly, as they seem a little too strong at the moment. See edit above

That's not what a samurai is....

I'm certainly no expert, but my understanding was that Samurai were originally horse mounted, fighting with bows and or lances. Swords were a fall back, eg if they came off their horse.

Why in the world would you want to do that?? That completely defeats the purpose of cavalry and totally misrepresents what cavalry were.

I think the original design intention is that the power of Heavy Cav waxes and wanes between eras, with Heavy Cav being relatively weaker in the Renaissance and Industrial Eras, with melee units being stronger in those ears. I think for immersion reason it might be good if Heavy Cav had some sort of upgrade in the Industrial Era - it's weird having Knights still running around then because there is nothing to upgrade them into - but, at the same time, I was I was trying to preserve the original gameplay balance.

...That's incredibly powerful. I'll push 15+ cities after I start conquering. Why not make it like Jebel Bakar and give +2 faith for each monument in a certain tile radius?

Yeah, I guess that is a bit powerful. What about just +1 faith per monument? See edit above.

On forts? WHAT?? That's insane! That's so overpowered!! If you want forts to be more useful, make them function like an actual fort! Give them a health and shield bar (but no bombardment) just like a city with walls. The unit inside can safely attack without worrying about being overrun. Also give any unit inside zone of control, even if it normally wouldn't have ZoC. This would make forts useful strategically, helpful for shoring up any open or undefended borders and be way less broken than +1 range. With +1 range, you can bet I'm just going to build a bunch of forts at my enemy's borders and blast his city defenses to nothing and he won't be able to do jack about it.

Is it really that overpowered? I guess it might be, although I'm not sure it's going to be hugely effective trying to use forts on the attack. You've got to build Military Engineers, then get them over to your target, then faff around putting a fort down. And then, once you take a city, it's not like you can pick the fort up and put it down somewhere else to attack another city.

I don't have a few about forts having their own walls, but the real issue is I'm not sure I'd be able to do that with my limited modding skills...

I disagree with how this would function. A town is too similar to the neighborhood district unlocked with urbanization. I think you'd be better off if the town was a district that provided a small amount of flat housing (like 2 or 3) and then it could get extra housing by upgrading into a neighbourhood with urbanization.

I suggested doing this as an improvement because I'm not sure I'd be able to mod a new district.

Housing is supposed to be a limiting factor in Civ. You're SUPPOSED to hit the ceiling. Giving that much free housing that early in the game is not a fun feature, it just negates a game mechanic.

My sense is the Audience Chamber is a little underpowered. I agree housing is supposed to be a limiting factor, and maybe my suggestion goes too far. I think I also hadn't thought about the implications of Audience Chamber's bonuses being tied to acquiring governors. I think reverting to +4 housing in cities with a governor is right - the suggested legacy card should be enough of a buff anyway - see edits above.

Courthouses existed weeeeeelllll before that.

Yes, I know. But gameplay wise, I don't think they should be available in the Ancient or Classical eras.

Maybe another approach would be to make them available in the Classical Era (as they were in Civ V), but then delay some of their bonuses until a bit later - see edits above.

This makes the pantheon nearly useless. Pantheons are great because you keep them regardless of what religion you get. Unlike Civ 5, faith isn't used to buy Great Prophets, you need great prophet points. This pantheon doesn't help you get a great prophet and if you miss out on getting a religion, your pantheon is completely worthless after the classical era: you can't use your religion to optimize the faith output of your cities (with abilities like reliquaries or pilgrimage) so your overall faith output/use will be low. You'll basically have nothing to show for picking this pantheon. At least other pantheons which finish after the classical era are immediately useful: the bonus production to military units could help you win early wars. With this pantheon, you'll be able to generate a mediocre amount of faith. You can't get any abilities which let you buy units with faith until later, so the faith doesn't really DO much. You'd be better off if you just set the amount of faith created by clearing features or resources to a flat amount by game speed and don't scale it by era like harvest yields are.

Well, I'm not trying to make Goddess of the Harvest useless, but I think it does need to be nerfed. Maybe just reduce the %faith it gives, rather than having it also tap out after the Classical Era? - see edits above.

[Edit: some additional thoughts.]

 

[dunkleosteus]

The issue I take with making musketmen more powerful than cavalry and cuirassiers is that muskets predate them by a wide margin. Cavalry are an Industrial era unit and Cuirassiers are late Renaissance. We shouldn't have a situation where you unlock a unit that is outmatched by a common unit that you already have, since muskets are unlocked at near the beginning of the Renaissance. Muskets outclass knights, but from a gameplay and historical perspective, you wouldn't produce units in response to muskets that can't take them on.

 

[acluewithout]

The issue I take with making musketmen more powerful than cavalry and cuirassiers is that muskets predate them by a wide margin. Cavalry are an Industrial era unit and Cuirassiers are late Renaissance. We shouldn't have a situation where you unlock a unit that is outmatched by a common unit that you already have, since muskets are unlocked at near the beginning of the Renaissance. Muskets outclass knights, but from a gameplay and historical perspective, you wouldn't produce units in response to muskets that can't take them on.

Yeah... that’s probably right.

I’m really not sure how to make this unit work. Gameplay-wise, I think Heavy Cav are meant to be weaker for a few eras, with Melee (Muskets) being dominant in the Renaissance and Industrial Eras (if you have Niter), and with Light Cav and Anti/Cav being potential fall backs if you're short resources. What’s more, as it is, there are a heap of units getting upgrades in these two eras without adding in Heavy Cav in too.

I think the current design is also intended to give the feel of Knights getting made obselete by early guns. Letting Knights upgrade kind of lets them avoid that fate, unless the upgrade is slightly nerfed or is difficult to get to.

I’d thought about putting the Heavy Cav upgrade in the civics tree, but there are so few civics in the Renaissance or Industrial eras, that I think that would make them too accessible. Otherwise, they could unlock at Military Science, ie at the same time as Light Cav, but I think that would make them too accessible.

The other possibility is to maybe introduce an Industrial era Melee unit - e.g. riflemen - but then that's starting to mean quite significant changes.

I’m increasing inclined to just leave this unit out. I’m not totally convinced it’s totally needed for balance. And there are already other mods which make more units available, which are probably a better solution for anyone who really wants to fill up the gaps in the tech tree.

...On forts? WHAT?? That's insane! That's so overpowered!! ....

Thinking about it some more, I think you’re right that giving ranged units in forts +1 range is a bit too spicy.

I’m really stumped how to make forts useful without making massive gameplay changes. e.g. giving forts their own health has its attractions, but would the effectively devalue Encampments (and like I said, I’m not sure my limited modding skills could manage it anyway). Giving forts loyalty or some other yield also feels a bit random to me, and may just result in fort spamming.

I like the idea of forts culture bombing, but that’s a big change. What’s more, that change would devalue the current mechanic of buying tiles and any civ with its own culture bomb mechanic. You’d also then be placing forts on the basis of tiles you want to grab, not defence.

Perhaps letting ranged units exert ZOC when they’re in a fort, plus +1 sight, might work - see changes above.

I disagree with how this would function. A town is too similar to the neighborhood district unlocked with urbanization. ...

I've renamed Towns Villages, and suggested adding a policy card “Carta Mercatoria” to buff them. I've also suggesting buffing Neighbourhoods slightly - see changes above.

 

[acluewithout]

· Audience Chamber. This building is now renamed "Altar". Building provides +4 Housing to all cities with an established Governor, and +1 Governor Title. Unlocks "Tradition Legacy" Policy Card (Wild Card), which gives all cities with an established Governor +2 amenity, +10% culture, and +5% growth. [The changes to the first tier government buildings are to make them less 'cheesy' overall.]

· Ancestral Hall. This building is now renamed "Forum". Building provides 50% increased Production towards Settlers and +1 Governor Title. Unlocks "Liberty Legacy" Policy Card (Wild Card), which provides a free builder when you settle a new city, and all cities on a foreign continent have upkeep reduced by 2 and loyalty increased by +1.

· Warlord's Throne. This building is now renamed "Throne". You receive gold whenever you conquer a city based on Era and game speed [TBD], and +1 Governor Title. Unlocks "Honour Legacy" Policy Card (Wild Card), which provides +4 combat strength to all land melee, anti-cavalry, and naval melee class.

I'm going to rethink these buildings a little. I think they'd be better if the provided a permanent 'buff' which favoured wide / tall / conquest, and then gave a card which provided a more unique ability. (I'd like all the buildings to have some minor negative (the way Audience Chamber does), but I can't really see how to make that work at the moment.)

e.g. something like this:

· Audience Chamber. This building is now renamed "Altar". Building provides +2 loyalty to all cities with an established Governor, -2 loyalty to all cities without a governor, and +1 Governor Title. Unlocks "Tradition Legacy" Policy Card (Wild Card), which gives +4 Housing and +1 amenity to all cities with an established Governor.

· Ancestral Hall. This building is now renamed "Forum". Building reduces maintenance for all cities by [2] and grants +1 Governor Title. Unlocks "Liberty Legacy" Policy Card (Wild Card), which provides 50% increased Production towards Settlers and a free builder when you settle a new city.

· Warlord's Throne. This building is now renamed "Throne Room". Maintenance for land melee, navy melee and anti-cavalry units reduced by 1, and +1 Governor Title. Unlocks "Honour Legacy" Policy Card (Wild Card), which provides +4 combat strength to all land melee, anti-cavalry, and naval melee class. [May need to tweak some of the cards which otherwise reduce maintenance costs.]

 

[acluewithout]

· Neighbourhoods. Neighbourhoods provide a major adjacency bonus to all districts.

... · New Unique Improvement: Village. Unlocks at Construction. Can be built on grasslands, plains or tundra. +0.5 housing. Provides minor adjacency bonus to Commercial Hub, Harbour, Industrial Zone, and adjacency bonus to farms after feudalism.

I've been thinking a little more about food and villages. Basically, I think Villages should be tied to farms more, and give extra food to trade routes. So, you'll want to build them in high food resource cities, either to boost pop in that city or another city (via trade route). To encourage that, I think perhaps mines and quarries should reduce food yields from tiles.

...e.g. something like this:

· Audience Chamber. This building is now renamed "Altar". Building provides +2 loyalty to all cities with an established Governor, -2 loyalty to all cities without a governor, and +1 Governor Title. Unlocks "Tradition Legacy" Policy Card (Wild Card), which gives +4 Housing and +1 amenity to all cities with an established Governor.

· Ancestral Hall. This building is now renamed "Forum". Building reduces maintenance for all cities by [2] and grants +1 Governor Title. Unlocks "Liberty Legacy" Policy Card (Wild Card), which provides 50% increased Production towards Settlers and a free builder when you settle a new city.

· Warlord's Throne. This building is now renamed "Throne Room". Maintenance for land melee, navy melee and anti-cavalry units reduced by 1, and +1 Governor Title. Unlocks "Honour Legacy" Policy Card (Wild Card), which provides +4 combat strength to all land melee, anti-cavalry, and naval melee class. [May need to tweak some of the cards which otherwise reduce maintenance costs.]

I've also gone ahead and made these changes, and knock on changes to conscription cards, in the OP.

 

[dunkleosteus]

Yeah... that’s probably right.

I’m really not sure how to make this unit work. Gameplay-wise, I think Heavy Cav are meant to be weaker for a few eras, with Melee (Muskets) being dominant in the Renaissance and Industrial Eras (if you have Niter), and with Light Cav and Anti/Cav being potential fall backs if you're short resources. What’s more, as it is, there are a heap of units getting upgrades in these two eras without adding in Heavy Cav in too.

I think the current design is also intended to give the feel of Knights getting made obselete by early guns. Letting Knights upgrade kind of lets them avoid that fate, unless the upgrade is slightly nerfed or is difficult to get to.

I’d thought about putting the Heavy Cav upgrade in the civics tree, but there are so few civics in the Renaissance or Industrial eras, that I think that would make them too accessible. Otherwise, they could unlock at Military Science, ie at the same time as Light Cav, but I think that would make them too accessible.

The other possibility is to maybe introduce an Industrial era Melee unit - e.g. riflemen - but then that's starting to mean quite significant changes.

I’m increasing inclined to just leave this unit out. I’m not totally convinced it’s totally needed for balance. And there are already other mods which make more units available, which are probably a better solution for anyone who really wants to fill up the gaps in the tech tree.



Thinking about it some more, I think you’re right that giving ranged units in forts +1 range is a bit too spicy.

I’m really stumped how to make forts useful without making massive gameplay changes. e.g. giving forts their own health has its attractions, but would the effectively devalue Encampments (and like I said, I’m not sure my limited modding skills could manage it anyway). Giving forts loyalty or some other yield also feels a bit random to me, and may just result in fort spamming.

I like the idea of forts culture bombing, but that’s a big change. What’s more, that change would devalue the current mechanic of buying tiles and any civ with its own culture bomb mechanic. You’d also then be placing forts on the basis of tiles you want to grab, not defence.

Perhaps letting ranged units exert ZOC when they’re in a fort, plus +1 sight, might work - see changes above.



I've renamed Towns Villages, and suggested adding a policy card “Carta Mercatoria” to buff them. I've also suggesting buffing Neighbourhoods slightly - see changes above.

I think heavy cav will still end up being weaker for a time, even if cuirassiers are stronger than musketmen. The difference would have to come in the time between muskets and cuirassiers. If you can keep your knights alive long enough to upgrade them into cuirassiers, you can get the advantage back over muskets but until then, they should be a bit weaker, in my opinion.

As for the difference between forts and encampments, I think it's important that forts don't have their own bombard attack, only "walls" which act as a defence against melee attacks. The idea is to keep the single unit inside safe. Currently, I believe forts just give a fortification bonus on defence to units on them, but this is not very helpful for ranged units that wish to attack and is a losing battle for melee units that wish to defend against ranged attacks. By giving forts zone of control and defence, they become a strategically useful improvement that you can use to control how enemies move through your territory. They don't provide any yields unlike an encampment, provide no bonuses towards unit production or production in general and can't actively attack on their own, so I don't think they're nearly as strong as the encampment is, given that you have to trade a tile in your city for them.

There's a mod that changes forts so that they claim adjacent tiles when built outside of your territory. The tiles they claim are lost if the fort is pillaged by an enemy or destroyed. I found that mod fun and useful for claiming the open space between my cities or for improving resources outside of my territory: I'd build a fort next to the resource, station a military unit in it to defend and bring a builder over to improve whichever strategic or luxury resource was next to it.

 

[criZp]

Polders requiring only 2 flat tiles means you can pretty much line every coastline with them.

 

[acluewithout]

· New Unique Improvement: Village. Unlocks at Construction. Can be built on grasslands, plains or tundra, but must be built adjacent to two farms or two sea resources, maximum 3 per city. This improvements can be worked, and provides the same benefits as a farm (i.e. 0.5 housing, additional food, and adjacency to other farms after Feudalism). Additionally, each Village provides +1 food to all trade routes to this city, and provides minor adjacency bonus to Commercial Hub, Harbour, and Industrial Zone.

I've tweaked Villages to give them bonus production. This should give farm heavy cities a way to boost production.

· Capitals and Loyalty. Capital and City States get +5 loyalty.

· Buff to City States. City States get +10 loyalty, free walls, (ancient in classical era, …), and +combat to their units when fighting in their own territory.

Looks like the patch is addressing city states, so I'm deleting these.

2. (Re-) Balancing Units

· Samurai. Samurai units are now treated as Heavy Cavalry.

· [ New Unit: Cuirassier . This unit is a Heavy Cavalry Unit, which unlocks at [Military Science]. Melee 55, cost 300, maintenance 5, movement 3. Requires Niter. Upgrades to Tank. ][Query whether to delete this unit.]

· Military Engineer. These receive 3 charges instead of 2.


3. Districts, Buildings and Wonders

...· Watermill. Watermill provides +1 food to all trade routes to this city.

I've deleted the three unit changes above, just to simplify things. I've also tweak watermills and granaries.

4. Governments, Government Plaza, and Government Buildings

I've suggested some buffs to communism.

Polders requiring only 2 flat tiles means you can pretty much line every coastline with them.

Looks like the next patch is addressing Polders. So I'm going to delete this change.

 

[acluewithout]

· Ngao Mbeba. Kongo’s unique unit’s strength is increased to 40, the same as a legion. ...[ Kongo’s UU are currently weaker than Swordsmen, which I think is just an oversight. I suggest making them as strong as Legions, which admittedly is very strong, but I think makes for lots of fun and shouldn’t be overpowered when considering Kongo overall.]

· City centre. Your city centre provides major adjacency bonuses to all districts after you research Steam. [Slightly helps tall play, and hopefully makes the discovery of steam feel more important - think of it like trains linking the city with its districts.]

· New Unique Improvement: Village. ... Cannot be built within 3 tiles of another village. ..,

· New Building: Court House. ...Can only be built in cities with at least 5 population ...

· Ancestral Hall. ... -1 loyalty to all cities if you take the Autocracy, Monarchy or Communism governments. ... [I’ve suggested giving Audience Hall a negative to loyalty for certain governments so it parallels the negative loyalty the Audience Chamber gives for cities without a governor (ie so both buildings create trade-offs).]

Made the above tweaks.

Also deleted additional +2 gold if your city centre is adjacent to the coast, because I think coastal cities are strong enough now with all the other changes in R&F.

 

[Frostburn]

I like your Cree change. Creative, balanced and more sensible. Though I would like to see Cree's combat effectiveness reduced to 10 or 15, and give them a movement bonus and make them the same price as regular scouts

Currently, the Cree scout actually puts you at a little bit of a scouting disadvantage early because of the increased production costs. That can cost you a very valuable envoy. Early Faith and culture per turn is huge, and I'd almost rather have regular cheaper scouts than Cree's buff more expensive ones

 

[acluewithout]

Balance changes.

I’m putting England to one side at the moment, because poor Vicky seems to be a mess and I expect Firaxis will tweak her some more. I’ve made some suggestions about how England could be revised elsewhere, but I think those changes would all be way beyond what I could successfully implement.

I’ve also been looking at Egypt some more. I’m wondering if Cleo needs a tweak at all. I was thinking perhaps Monumentality giving +1 production to quarries. My thinking is Cleo gets pretty low production starts, and so sometimes doesn’t have the hammers to take advantage of her %production bonuses for wonders and districts. But then I was thinking those % bonuses do last the whole game, so maybe she’s fine as she is.

In fact, I think the only solid buff Cleo needs is to just make her Archer Chariot not replace her normal chariot. I think it’s a bit rough she doesn’t get normal chariots and so can’t upgrade to Knights!

I think I’ll get rid of the change to settlers - they’re other mods which make that change, and it’s not significant enough either way.

I think Colloseum also maybe shouldn’t get its loyalty bonus: it makes it too powerful, and improved amenities increases loyalty anyway. Either this wonder should just have its culture and amenity buffs, or if anything, get some additional bonus to running bread and circuses.

I might start new thread at some point in the mod forum when I actually start trying to do this. I’ll group my suggestions by theme more, and try to flag which bits I’m working on first.

 

[acluewithout]

Hullo

I've re-organised and expanded some of the above suggestions, and reposted it here.

 

[Jarms48]

I’m putting England to one side at the moment, because poor Vicky seems to be a mess and I expect Firaxis will tweak her some more. I’ve made some suggestions about how England could be revised elsewhere, but I think those changes would all be way beyond what I could successfully implement.

The three changes I would make for Vicky are:
- Pax Britannia +2 Trade Routes when Exploration is unlocked, as you suggested.
- I'd make Redcoats replace Musketmen. Reduce their maintenance cost to 4 gold, then reduce the Redcoats strength to 55 and leave the +10 bonus for fighting on foreign continents. This would allow you to use them for timing pushes.
- I'd also change the Seadogs ability from a % chance of capturing ships to earning gold from kills they make.

I’ve also been looking at Egypt some more. I’m wondering if Cleo needs a tweak at all. I was thinking perhaps Monumentality giving +1 production to quarries. My thinking is Cleo gets pretty low production starts, and so sometimes doesn’t have the hammers to take advantage of her %production bonuses for wonders and districts. But then I was thinking those % bonuses do last the whole game, so maybe she’s fine as she is.

The two changes I would make for Cleo are:
- Archer Chariots do not replace normal Chariots, as you suggested.
- I would change how Floodplains in general works. I'd make it so all Civs can build upon Floodplains once they research Engineering, Cleo can build upon Floodplains at Irrigation (same tech as removing marshes), and give Egypt +2 extra gold from Floodplain tiles.