RA rewards: Over-Time or At-End?

[Thalassicus]

Do you prefer to get Research Agreement rewards:

• A portion each turn over time?
• A lump sum at the end of the agreement?

 

[eazyseeker]

I have to say, a lump sum at the end of the agreement sure is way more satisfying than a portion each turn. So yeah, you could go for the lump sum.. but you would have to do it like tech boosts in vanilla, so you'd have to queue some techs for that.

I would honestly prefer the lump sum, but for newcomers.. portion each turn is better. Maybe allow the player to choose?

 

[healinbear]

At the end. Sometimes research yields nothing. Sometimes more than expected. A random modifier would add spice to things.

 

[Dunkah]

I guess a portion each turn seems a bit more realistic to some degree as it represents slowly coming to a conclusion on experimentation. But a lump sum could represent a breakthrough all of a sudden.

I chose Lump sum because I like the idea of using as a deterent for DOW's. "You break the RA and I'm taking my ball and going home". "No soup for you!"

 

[Txurce]

Not very helpful so far, eh, Thal?

I voted for at the end, because I also think it's more fun. This presumes that any spill-over is saved. Otherwise, definitely each turn. And I would be absolutely fine if you chose to make it over each turn anyway.

 

[Tomice]

Does this mean you want to reintroduce RA's seperate from DoF's in any case? Good choice, I think it's a loss not to have them.

Regarding the main question, I agree 100% with Txurce.

 

[Thalassicus]

I do want to keep the combined-research approach because I think it effectively suppresses "runaway" games. I'm just wondering if it's worth the effort to redesign it to a lump sum.

The difficulty is we get no information for mods about when the agreement ends. To do a lump sum we have to check every turn's trade deals, compare it to the last turn, and check for things like if the player died, went to war, and so on... storing all these things in the savegame file. I estimate it's ~5 hours of work to implement and test, and the gameplay effect is not very different in the long run, so in the past I prioritized other tasks involving less work and more impact (like Vanguard units). I'm revisiting this idea because I'm revising a lot of the internal code of the mod lately.

 

[Txurce]

I do want to keep the combined-research approach because I think it effectively suppresses "runaway" games. I'm just wondering if it's worth the effort to redesign it to a lump sum.

The difficulty is we get no information for mods about when the agreement ends. To do a lump sum we have to check every turn's trade deals, compare it to the last turn, and check for things like if the player died, went to war, and so on... storing all these things in the savegame file. I haven't done it before it's probably ~ten hours of work for a gameplay effect that's not very different. However, I'm revising a lot of the internal code of the mod lately to make stuff like this easier, so I'm revisiting this idea.

If it's more than a flick of a switch, I would leave it on a timed basis. Opinion is split anyway, so it's not like you're bucking the will of the masses!

 

[Zaldron]

Either approach works for me with a slight bias to at-end if it's easy to do (which it sounds like it is not).

More importantly to me though, subjectively RAs seem much much weaker in VEM than vanilla. In vanilla on King I totally run away with the tech race by maximizing RAs with every civ. In VEM I'm always at least 2-3 techs behind for example Gandhi - if I'm lucky I'll get 2 or MAYBE 3 DoFs and it just feels like much less bonus tech. Perhaps my real issue is that culture is sped up so much that I get a cultural win before I get close to spaceship.

 

[gdwitt]

I don't think RA's are important. I always refuse them because I don't know if I will be at war in 10 turns.
My play style is usually Declaring war frequently and wonderbuilding so the lump sum would never appeal.
I would like to see a robust DOF and alliance system like we had in CIV 4.
Most important are all the bugs in the wonders and policy options.

 

[tekknej]

over time is much better for me. having it lump up at the end is kinda silly ) though it certainly works as a war deterrent, i doubt AI understands it. so another exploitative thing.

 

[zarakand]

I actually prefer RA's the way you have them set up with the DOF and little bit each turn. The way vanilla handles RA's I always just say no.

 

[Baleur]

Over time, by far. This means that both you and the AI (if they even realize this, i dont know) have a continuing incentive to keep eachother happy and keep the peace, in the sense that they would instantly want the same bonus the next turn after the first research agreement has run its course.

If it is a lump sum at the end, one could imagine "heh, now i got the loot, time to betray and declare war next turn". Since it would take 30 turns to get the next benefit of friendship, might as well capture a city or two instead.