Racism in America: The True Extent

The Imp

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High guys, I have noticed that in many a thread an accusation about race is bandied about without the slightest bit of evidence.

For example-

"Racism is not holding down black people"

or

"Blacks are held down from jobs they deserve because of race"

---

I think we should have a better discussion on race. Therefore, when bringing up a point about racism in America, the poster must bring up some strong supporting evidence.

Example

People with "Black" name might have a harder time in the job market because a 'black" name is on their resume.

Employers may be selecting or overlooking prospective job candidates for interviews based on their potential race as suggested by names, according to a recent study by two professors from the University of Chicago and Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).

To test whether employers might discriminate against job applicants with black-sounding names, associate professors of economics Marianne Bertrand with Chicago's Graduate School of Business and Sendhil Mullainathan with MIT conducted an elaborate experiment. They fabricated resumes for multiple "phantom" job seekers with common black and white names. The professors then sent out nearly 5,000 resumes for 1,300 job openings advertised in newspapers and on online job sites throughout Chicago and Boston.

"We searched online and selected resumes of actual job seekers," says Bertrand. "We then used those to create models for several different realistic resumes with the appropriate education and experience needed for typical job openings advertised in newspapers."

Most job openings for which the researchers sent resumes were administrative, sales, clerical and managerial positions. Bertrand and Mullainathan randomly assigned the applicants names common to either black men, black women, white men or white women and were careful not to send identical resumes to the same employer.

Bertrand and Mullainathan then tracked which of their "applicants" were called for job interviews. Bertrand said that more resumes were sent to Chicago area employers simply because it is the larger metropolitan area but added that the rate for interview requests was virtually identical between the two cities.

The results are a bit disturbing, the researchers admit. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be contacted for job interviews than those with typical black names. There were no significant differences between the rates at which men and women were contacted.

"Once we compiled the data and got a good look at it, I was immediately struck by the disparities in the response rates," said Bertrand. "I expected that there would be a difference, but not one that was so striking."

Bertrand acknowledged that employers could not conclusively determine the race of a job applicant from a resume. However, she contended that the study clearly showed a bias among employers based on perceptions.

"I believe our study clearly shows that when employers or hiring managers see a name that might indicate race, or at least the applicant's social class, they appear to react negatively to-wards it," Bertrand says.

"Once you take into account the large size of our sample and the comparable response rates of the two cities, we believe it is a very good indicator that employers treat applicants with African American-sounding names much differently Bertrand says.

I am hoping to learn a thing or two from this thread. :)
 
Interested: What is a typical blacks name?
 
Interested: What is a "black"name?

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2470131&page=1


Top 20 'Whitest' and 'Blackest' Names
Most Popular Boy and Girl Names

19 comments
Sept. 21, 2006
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Studies of resumes have found that people with black-sounding names are less likely to get callbacks.

"20/20" put 22 pairs of names to the test, posting identical resumes except for the names at the top.

Watch "20/20" Friday Night at 10

The resumes with the white-sounding names were actually downloaded 17 percent more often by job recruiters than the resumes with black-sounding names.

What are some of those names? Here's a list from the book "Freakonomics," by Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner, showing the top 20 whitest- and blackest-sounding girl and boy names.

20 "Whitest" Girl Names

Molly

Amy

Claire

Emily

Katie

Madeline

Katelyn

Emma

Abigail

Carly

Jenna

Heather

Katherine

Caitlin

Kaitlin

Holly

Allison

Kaitlyn

Hannah

Kathryn

20 "Blackest" Girl Names

Imani

Ebony

Shanice

Aaliyah

Precious

Nia

Deja

Diamond

Asia

Aliyah

Jada

Tierra

Tiara

Kiara

Jazmine

Jasmin

Jazmin

Jasmine

Alexus

Raven

20 "Whitest" Boy Names

Jake
Connor

Tanner

Wyatt

Cody

Dustin

Luke

Jack

Scott

Logan

Cole

Lucas

Bradley

Jacob

Garrett

Dylan

Maxwell

Hunter

Brett

Colin

20 "Blackest" Boy Names

DeShawn

DeAndre

Marquis
Darnell

Terrell

Malik

Trevon

Tyrone

Willie

Dominique

Demetrius

Reginald

Jamal

Maurice

Jalen

Darius

Xavier

Terrance

Andre

Darryl
 
This point about black names was already made, and I asked if the same would not apply to white "hillbilly" names. In other words, is the issue "black names" or "poor names"? I am sure an affluent and educated black family would be at least a bit reluctant to name their son "DeShawn" and their daughter "Imani".
 
The resumes with the white-sounding names were actually downloaded 17 percent more often by job recruiters than the resumes with black-sounding names.
What was the difference in absolute numbers?
 
This point about black names was already made, and I asked if the same would not apply to white "hillbilly" names. In other words, is the issue "black names" or "poor names"? I am sure an affluent and educated black family would be at least a bit reluctant to name their son "DeShawn" and their daughter "Imani".

Look at what was quoted, the people with the "black" names were given near identical resumes to "white" names.

But your point is nevertheless valid. Go bother someone at MIT to do that study :)
 
What was the difference in absolute numbers?

There is a simple explanation a lot of racist accusations ... the laws of statistics.
If you have 5 identical candidates for a job, 3 are Caucasian and 2 are African American, 60% of the time a Caucasian will get the job. This isn't discrimination against African Americans, this is statistics. Most Americans are Caucasian, so according to the law of statistics, Caucasians should hold a higher percentage of jobs than minority groups simply because there are more Caucasians. I didn't see the context of this article so this may not be the case but I have heard of many cases of people crying racism over nothing.
 
I was just going to bring up the same thing luiz did: I think simply throwing together rich and poor whites and rich and poor blacks and finding the most popular names is useless.

As for finding such stats, I don't think you need to ask someone to do them, I believe they already exists.

I'm pretty sure Levitt and Dubner did present such data in their book Freakonomics. Specifically, in chapter 6: 'The socioeconomic patterns of naming children'. Unfortunately, I don't have the book in Japan, so I can't find what it says.

But if I remember correctly, they showed that people will give their children the same names as children born recently to more well-off neighbours, colleagues, friends or acquaintances, in an attempt to fit better in with the more well-offs, and hopefully become more well-off themselves (or their kids). And even worse-off parents will name their kids after the kids of more well-off parents, in an ever-expanding ripple effect.

In the higher classes, once certain names become too common, because lower classes copy them, the particular names go out of fashion and new names are brought in to distance their kids and themselves from the vulgar people.

And thus the circle continues.

As such, specific white and black names can probably be seen as a sign of ghettoisation or that white and black people do not live in the same community, or share the same social circles. It would also follow then, that white-trash people will have more different names from upper- and middle-class whites, and those names will be more akin to the names of poor blacks.
 
This point about black names was already made, and I asked if the same would not apply to white "hillbilly" names. In other words, is the issue "black names" or "poor names"? I am sure an affluent and educated black family would be at least a bit reluctant to name their son "DeShawn" and their daughter "Imani".

Exactly. When I see the name Imani or Crystal, I think the same thing.
 
There will always be those who will judge people based on the names their parents gave them, as silly as that may be.

I guess the blacks need to get wise to this and start naming their children after American presidents again. That strategy seems to have worked out quite well for them to eliminate inherent racism in the past. My brother is named after Andrew Jackson, as was his father and grandfather, and who is a distant relative. When he shows up for job interviews a lot of people expect to meet a black. No telling how many people simply ignored his resume.
 
My school is ~20% African American and they all have bizarre names
 
Star Streamer was the most creative I ran into. Honestly, who the hell is going to take someone with the name star streamer seriously? It might not be fair, but its reality. There are quite a few names that I like personally but I would never give my children because I care for their well being.

The Apples and Moon Units or the world get the same disadvantage as the Asias and Diamonds. Race is no factor.
 
Exactly. When I see the name Imani or Crystal, I think the same thing.

I don't think that is correct. New wealth is made every generation, and African-americans as a whole are definitely not kow-towing to the old I want to be in with WASP culture like they used to (bless you to pursue whatever culture you want though).

Therefore it's logical to presume that more "black" names are definitely present in at least middle-class level of wealth.
 
They are happy to fight that battle if they want too, but the simple fact is that there are plenty of entirely "white" names that illicit the same reaction.

If they think chaning the culture so that entirely made up names become normal is more important that naming their children with social interaction in mind then so be it. Their choice. The consequences of that choice does not constitute racism.

If there was some link to historical African names I might be more sympathetic, but they are literally just making things up off the top of their heads just like the current Hollywood trend.
 
They are happy to fight that battle if they want too, but the simple fact is that there are plenty of entirely "white" names that illicit the same reaction.

If they think chaning the culture so that entirely made up names become normal is more important that naming their children with social interaction in mind then so be it. Their choice. The consequences of that choice does not constitute racism.

If there was some link to historical African names I might be more sympathetic, but they are literally just making things up off the top of their heads just like the current Hollywood trend.

Like?
 
The aformentioned universal stipper names like Crystal, Chastity, Tiffany, etc. Not to mention any host of male names associated with agrarian roots.
 
Anyways, what I draw from this thread is:

People are prejudiced by names such that your name implies your race/culture.

Employers enjoy excluding people based on implied race/culture.

So in other words, prejudice is still alive and well on the basis of race and culture.
 
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