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Radio's Game #3 Monarch Cyrus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Radio Noer, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. Radio Noer

    Radio Noer The Devourer

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    Well hello everybody, I'm back yet again (tired of me yet? :p) with another game on Monarch, this time with one of my all time favorite leaders, Cyrus! Yes I know, a while back I had another Cyrus game, however this is on Normal speed (vs Marathon) and Continents (vs Fractal) so I suppose I'll just get right to it and start. I've also decided if I win this game, I'm moving up to Emperor for a "trial by fire" even if I'm not ready yet, I figure at least I'll learn something from moving up a difficulty.

    Settings:
    Monarch Difficulty
    Continents/Standard
    Normal Speed
    Huts/Events off

    The leader:


    Cyrus is IMP/CHA, IMP will allow faster settlers and Great Generals, generally a good warmongering trait. CHA helps with early happiness and gives faster unit promos, another great warmonger trait. Agr and Hunting allow a quick AH->Wheel if I choose for the ever wonderful Immortal rush. Apothecary is nice if I run into unhealthiness issues in my cities.

    The start, sorry for no resource bubbles, I forgot

    When I saw this I freaked, so much commerce, it's ridiculous (if only I were Darius, drat), However beyond the dry corn there doesn't seem to be much in the way of food (but it looks like some fp's to the south of the wine). The beavers and the tundra also tell me I'm far north and will probably need to expand south for better land. I think I'll SIP and go maybe AH-(if no horses near Mining) Wheel->Mining/BW

    The save
     

    Attached Files:

  2. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Just go mining/BW, since there are no pasture resources in your BFC. I'd also move the scout 2W of the settler to see if it's worth settling 1SW or 1S on the wine (extra commerce).
     
  3. Radio Noer

    Radio Noer The Devourer

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    To begin the game I moved the scout and found desert, leading me to SIP.



    I teched Mining->BW when I found copper in my BFC and while scouting found...



    Which is about the time I decided to try for an axe rush as he has the Hindu holy city, which will likely be powerful later in the game. I then teched Wheel->AH->Pottery->Writing all the while using IMP for 2 pop whip settlers, thus founding...

    Pasargadae, with sheep, gold, and the ability to share many tiles with the cap, it seemed pretty strong but I'm not sure if I should have settled 1E.


    Between cities I met Willem


    And founded 1 last city, Susa due to cows and fish in BFC


    So now the plan is to get a force of axes and quickly take out Hannibal's cap, if he has any other cities, it's really a non-issue because his cap is obviously the holy city and his other city (should he found one) won't have developed a whole lot either.

    General overview (scout died early, will send another out soon-ish)




    The save
     

    Attached Files:

  4. CreeDakota

    CreeDakota King

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    i find the game alot easier when I have early happy like that. Hannibal seems kinda far to rush to me. If it is just you he and wilhelm on this continent it may be good to keep Hannibal around to allow trading.
     
  5. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    Resource Bubbles
    (clap clap clap-clap-clap)

    Also, if you want comments on your city placement, you really need a screen cap with an overview of the land, rather than zooms into the locations you've already chosen.
     
  6. Radio Noer

    Radio Noer The Devourer

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    Of course, how could I forget, I'm adding overview, resources bubbles, and gridlines now!
     
  7. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    I don't see the merit in axe rushing someone 10 tiles away on normal speed. And if you're serious about axe rushing, you should do it with 2 cities and not 3.

    Also, why didn't you settle 1S to get the Oasis in your BFC and to pick up the extra coin in your city square?

    edit: I also only see one worker. A second (and possibly third) worker would have been superior to a second settler for axe rushing purposes since it lets you chop much more aggressively and build a road to your enemy.
     
  8. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    Copper that you can't see is much stronger than an oasis that you can't see.
     
  9. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Oh right. Forgot that the oasis was not in line-of-sight for the scout.
     
  10. GGracchus

    GGracchus Tribune of Rome

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    He already has a second city.
     
  11. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    If you have copper in your BFC and you want to axe rush, building settlers is a waste of killing time. Having said that, if it's just you, Hannibal and Willem on your continent, killing Hannibal will severely restrict your ability to trade, and will give Willem a lot of land to expand into. If you'd explored the land to the west of your capital you would know a lot better whether REXing is a better option, which I would suspect it is.
     
  12. Bellringer

    Bellringer Chieftain

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    I wonder why you are axe-rushing when the strength of Persia is in Immortals?
     
  13. QuixotesGhost

    QuixotesGhost Warlord

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    Workers are really important to an early rush (chariots, axes) since most of your hammers should be coming from chops. The big problem with founding extra settlements is roading to them and improving the land eat up valuble worker turns that should be going towards chops. Your axe rush would have been much faster had you simply chopped out a 2nd worker, then chopped and improved your capitol. Much faster as in the war should already be done or close to finished by now.
     
  14. Radio Noer

    Radio Noer The Devourer

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    Alright, as you may be able to tell, I don't axe rush often so I'll just send those axes to explore so I can 2 pop whip even more settlers :)
     
  15. CaF

    CaF Warlord

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    I will give you a short summary if the advice so far:

    1: you need workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers,
    2: axe rushes suck
    3: long range axe rushes suck
    4: workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers, workers

    did I mention that you need workers? :)

    One could already see in your last games that you build not enough workers. Your save game with 3 cities and 2 axes in front of hannibals borders has 1 worker. For my taste you are lacking at least 2 workers here.

    Perhaps my approach helps you: I usually go for a worker first, then some stuff to grow to size 3-4. Then 1 worker, then 1 settler, then some more stuff, then 1 settler, then 1 worker, more stuff... 2nd city now helps with units and at size 2 it builds 1 worker and the capital as well.
    Yes, you might end up roading useless tiles before ironworking is in. But at least you get everything improved.
     
  16. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

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    Axe rushes are perfectly viable at monarch, and with only 4 open tiles between borders it's hardly long-range. But Radio should play this start over a few times until he learns how to do an axe rush - it's a good skill to know. BFC copper and plenty of trees makes this just about ideal, but you should be hitting Hannibal with 8-10 axes by around 1500BC. The big issue is workers, and I would have a minimum of 2: one to chop and the other to road towards Carthage. Even having that 2nd city isn't so bad if you were still waiting on BW when you built the settler - it can contribute and axe or 2 (don't build a rax there, though) or another worker.

    However, the scouting so far is pitiful. If there were horses in that fog to the west, an immortal rush would be far better. But you'll never know that without better scouting.
     
  17. Radio Noer

    Radio Noer The Devourer

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    Well, I made a bunch of workers this section :goodjob:.

    First off, I sent those axes away from Hannibal's border to go scouting for city locations, it would be a shame if I couldn't leverage IMP after all...

    Then I finsihed up Alpha and traded a bit


    Met Alex


    More trades...




    Founded two cities, Ecbatana grabs 2 food resources plus iron and Tarsus grabs phants and pigs





    Another meh trade


    And then I got a settler and GS and need to know what to do with them (Territory pics later). Should I use the GS to bulb Compass for trade bait or something or should I use it for an Academy/Settle it?

    An overview of the empire (with some dotmapped potential cities)






    I figure if I can successfully settle all the way southwest, I'll split the continent and severely limit Willem's growth and let Hannibal and Alex fight for space in the southeast. Besides that the locations all have food resources (something I'm trying to remember to include in every city).

    The save
     

    Attached Files:

  18. GGracchus

    GGracchus Tribune of Rome

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    The first site should probably go 1S to grab the banana: city overlap is ok.
     
  19. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    You could move the northern red dot 2E to make it completely inland.
     
  20. learner gamer

    learner gamer King

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    IMHO, this is brilliant advice. In fact, I was going to mention earlier that although the axe rush was getting late, it was still feasible, depending on what defenders Hannibal had. As it happens, you’ve recovered well – but I’d wholeheartedly recommend following huerfanista’s advice: perhaps once you’ve finished this game, try replaying that opening to rush Hannibal. :)

    You’ve done a decent job recovering :goodjob:, but there are clearly a few more areas for improvement:
    (i) You’re still working unimproved tiles (and Tarsus needs a road to connect it to your trade network). You’re also not working some forested, riverside furs in your capital :sad: – because you have just 4 workers in 5 cities (and another settler just out), when the oft quoted adage is at least 1.5 workers per city. IMHO, the biggest single improvement you could make in your game right now is to stop and build or whip a worker whenever you see yourself working unimproved tiles. Believe me, if you are this slow improving and working your special tiles, you will get crushed at emperor. :sad:
    (ii) You have no need for a market in Pasagaarde yet. The city’s generating 5.6 gold, so the market will only generate a paltry 1.4 gold (25% of 5.6.) Persepolis doesn’t really need a market yet for the same reason – and your economy’s in no danger of collapse either. IMHO, you need workers from both these cities to build improvements, settlers to claim land and some more military units to see if you can take out a barb city or two to add to your empire. Assyrian could be razed and a new city on the coast working cows and three dyes could be settled.
    (iii) Personally, I’d alter the dotmap a little, going (a) SE of the dye for dye / bananas, (b) NW of the horse for clam / horse / banana and (c) 2S of the silk for rice / silk. Alternatively, you could also move northern red dot 2E as has been suggested. Your city placement is getting better, but would likely improve further if you counted the food surplus / deficit each city would provide you with, before you settled it.

    Other things to think about meanwhile include:
    (i) Monarchy – perhaps see if you can get it in trade to open up those wines in your capital.
    (ii) Alex is in WHEOOHRN. I’ve no idea who the target is or when the DoW will come, but note you refused to give him tribute. Perhaps it might be worthwhile stationing a military unit in his borders to see if he moves a stack in your direction?

    Apologies if I sound at all harsh BTW. :) Your game is certainly improving – and by getting just a few basics right (such as building more workers and nailing city placement by counting the food surplus / deficit before you settle a city), it would improve quite alot more IMHO.
     

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