Tony Graham
Chieftain
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Railroads and Rite of Passage
- Thread starter Tony Graham
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templar_x
usually walks his talks
RoP = they can use your road/railroad-network, yes. and vice versa.
t_x
t_x
WeirdoJoker
King
I once had a game (maybe more) where I had a right of passage during a war, but the AI managed to block me by placing units in key squares so I could not pass. I don't remember whether roads or railroads (probably both, in different games), but it was really annoying trying to conduct a war that way, especially since warring is not a strong suit of mine to begin with.
vorlon_mi
Emperor
Yes. Beware of RoP in the late game. I was backstabbed by an "ally", who used RoP to ride my railroads into my core, declare on me, and walk into one of my undefended cities. I took it back quickly, but the cultural buildings were razed. 
templar_x
usually walks his talks
RoP might not be a problem, if geography allows you to practically seal off your borders with units. workers would do, as any other unit. this way, in case you need it, you can use their roads but you deprive them of using yours...
t_x
t_x
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
The Aztecs did that to me in one of my pRNGods games (Emp, Korea, Small 60% Archi).Yes. Beware of RoP in the late game. I was backstabbed by an "ally", who used RoP to ride my railroads into my core, declare on me, and walk into one of my undefended cities. I took it back quickly, but the cultural buildings were razed.
IIRC, I'd given Monty an RoP attached to an MA against Gandhi (the other remaining superpower), so that I wouldn't be the bad guy when the Indians killed them (they only had a couple of Tundra-towns left) — but then a lone Aztec Guerrilla marched into Moscow (I'd moved my Palace, because Seoul's location was awful) and blew up my half-completed Spaceship.
So I sent my Modern Armor to push them all into the sea.
And no longer sign RoPs if I have an unguarded core and a full rail-net...
EDIT:
Just went and had another look at that thread: the relevant post is here:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/bow-to-the-prngods-foolish-mortal.538232/page-3#post-13931729
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tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Tony Graham
Chieftain
- Joined
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Thanks T.emplar_X and everyone else for their input
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
AFAIK, even without an RoP, it is possible to build roads (railroads), mines, and irrigation on foreign soil.
This can be used to assist an AI-ally by optimising his historically poor application of terrain-improvements (e.g. mining previously irrigated Grassland, or irrigating mined Plains), or impede a rival without actually declaring war (by doing the opposite!).
What you cannot do (again AFAIK), even with an RoP, is to chop down Forest or Jungle, or clear Marshes. I think you're not allowed to plant Forests, either.
i.e. terrain-improvement (or "improvement"!
) is allowed, but terrain-conversion is not.
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r16
not deity
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would have to check with lots of workers and the espionage / embassy stuff , before and after . The shields or food must be visible , right ? Forest business is taboo , not to allow you to sabotage some guy's production by stesling his one time 10 or 20 shield boost . And ı once started planting a forest and my city flipped the turn before ı was to finish and the Al got a new wooded park .
This can be tested be creating a scenerio where you have preplaced railroads but not steam power.
The movement bonus can indeed be used, but prior to steam power the city tile only has roads, not railroads. So that is a limitation to keep in mind. Once you have steam power all those limitations are of course lifted.
46thCharlemagne
Chieftain
Yes. Beware of RoP in the late game. I was backstabbed by an "ally", who used RoP to ride my railroads into my core, declare on me, and walk into one of my undefended cities. I took it back quickly, but the cultural buildings were razed.
Over the years it took me quite a few RoP betrayals on the part of the AI before I learned to always block them from getting my land by the method templar_x described above in post #5. That, or simply don't give RoP to civs that could do that to you without you seeing it coming.
This happens all the time when I'm using RoP to go romping around out in the world, using an ally's land to get to some enemy. I often end up improving their road network at the very least, and if they're a particularly weak ally that I want to get stronger I will commit quite a few workers to improving their tiles. But in the industrial era, if I resort to giving them railroads before they have their own, VERY often the ally will leave units parked on tiles that force me off the new rail lines and I have to build bypasses just to minimize the chance of that happening. Usually happens in the tiles adjacent to their cities of course, as they run out of movement coming out of the city tile which of course has no railroad.
vorlon_mi
Emperor
In the early game, I try to get several RoP's so that my exploring boats (curragh, galley) can find trading partners and get back home. I peacefully cancel most of them during the middle ages, especially after I get Astronomy and Magnetism.
Neighbors on my landmass/continent don't usually get an RoP unless we're formally allied in a war against a common foe... and I have a much larger military than they do.
Neighbors on my landmass/continent don't usually get an RoP unless we're formally allied in a war against a common foe... and I have a much larger military than they do.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Signing RoPs with 'harmless' AI-Civs improves their attitude to me, so I'll happily sign RoPs with overseas Civs well into the late game.
e.g. when an overseas AI-Leader invites me to join in an overseas war (that I have no interest in pursuing), their MA-proposal almost always seems to include an RoP. Rather than turning them down outright, I just take the MA off the table, so they get the (useless) RoP as a consolation-prize.
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46thCharlemagne
Chieftain
By peacefully cancel do you mean let them expire after the requisite 20 turns?
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
The 20 turns is the minimum length for a deal. Just because an RoP has lasted that long, doesn't necessarily mean that it will expire automatically.
AFAIK, an RoP (or any other deal) will only 'expire' if one or the other party paid up-front goods (a tech, or lump-sum gold). Conversely -- and especially if you've got "Always renegotiate deals" switched off in your Preferences (which is generally a bad idea) -- any RoP which had nothing else attached, or which was being paid for on a purely per-turn basis, needs to be actively cancelled, otherwise it will just run on.
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