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Raliuven SG2 Demi-God Aztecs

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Raliuven, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. creamcheese

    creamcheese Spreading since 1990

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    Two SGL's and counting, I have been dutiful in my prayers to the RNG gods. :mischief:

    I won't be able to play until tomorrow, so if you want to finish it off go ahead.
     
  2. Raliuven

    Raliuven Emperor

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    The Mayans DOW as expected, which is nice War Happiness. I gave up steel but we got an alliance vs the Mayans by Japan & Spain, Japanese fur and some gpt, nationalism and communism. All that has allowed our Lux to go down to 10% for now. Farmland is coming along and we've got gp & gpt for rushing settlers or whatever. I did play through Turn 240 for the most part, but there are some units left unmoved. I tend to stack my units after I have rails, so our elite cavs are stacked in a safe but close city to the Egyptian warfront.

    France & the Iroquois are still at it - it looks like the french even managed to recently destroy an Iroquois city. We had a city flip to the French and it got a spear, so their last city should not be too tough to crack. Now that the French Isles are secure, we can move a few cavs over to the final island and finish that.

    We've also got a stack of cavs next to Elephantine. Egypt doesn't have much steam left.


    Here is Turn 239 & 240:
    Spoiler :
    Turn 239 (1240 AD) **Continuned**

    I decide against a MPP. I will induce them into the war after it starts. Call up the Mayans, but they don’t have much to give. I buy Nationalism, 44gp & WM for 337gpt. I then demand that they leave - predictably they declare. We lose their gpt but we get back far more, though nationalism has little value for us.

    I go to Japan and can get an alliance vs the Mayans for incense. Sure. Japan declares. Then give Japan Steel & Ivory for Furs, Communism, 13gp, WM & 25gpt (they would have gone for 50gpt and I put Ivory in the deal to encourage them to stay allies). I get an alliance from Spain for Steel. They give their WM.

    War Happiness and Furs allows us to drop the lux slider to 10%, Science is at 70%, Motors due in 4t @ +114gpt, which is better than where we were even with the Mayan’s gpt.

    Mayan Warfront – 12/17 cav army vs 4/4 spear – win, -2hp. 5/5 AC vs 4/4 Lb – flawless retreat. Hmm? 5/5 knight vs 4/4 LB – win, -1hp to defensive shot. 3/4 cav vs 4/4 LB – flawless win. 3/4 cav vs 2/5 LB – flawless win, promote elite. Tulum is guarded by a 3/3 rifle. Our 10/17 cav army and 4 cavs are outside Tulum for next turn.

    Use arty to bomb down wandering rifles while armies heal this turn.

    IBT – Japan offers a MMP & ROP if we will pay them 84gpt. I don’t think so Tokugawa.
    New Tula (Empty City) flips to the French. ??? It receives a 3/3 spear. Hahahahaha.
    Three 3/3 Egyptian rifles step off their mountain.

    Turn 240 (1250 AD)

    5/5 cav vs 3/3 french spear – win -1hp. City is already happy. Stupid propaganda

    Athribis is protected by a 4/4 pike. 18/18 cav army vs 4/4 pike - win but -5 hp. City destroyed. Put down a new city nearby to open the path to Elephantine.

    18/18 cav army finds a 3/3 rifle protecting Elephantine – win, -7hp. I put five 4/4 cavs under the army for next turn.

    Arty shells down all three rifles to 1/3. 5/5 cav vs 1/3 rifle – flawless win. 5/5 cav vs 1/3 rifle – flawless loss. 5/5 cav vs 1/3 rifle – win, -1hp. 5/5 cav vs 1/3 rifle – flawless win. I guess we made out better than then.

    Battle for Tulum – 10/17 cav army vs 3/3 rifle – win, -2hp. 4/4 cav vs 3/3 rifle – lose, -2hp. 4/5 cav vs 1/3 rifle – flawless win. Capture Tulum and 1 slave. Put massed units in Tulum to quell rioters.






    I don’t see anywhere left for the Mayans to get salt so there should be no more cavs then they were able to make, but as Tulum does not have a harbor, so they probably were not getting salt from Tulum.

    After some MM we can move science down to 60%, Motors in 3t @ +188gpt.

    I’ve been developing Cempola, Ixtapaluca , Taeyo & Chalchihuites but I don’t know if it is really worth it. The French are still at war with the Iroquois and they’ve actually managed to destroy one of their cities on the island.
     

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  3. creamcheese

    creamcheese Spreading since 1990

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    Okay, I have got it. I will work on finishing off the Egyptians. Also filling in some farms, although our research is going quite well.
     
  4. Raliuven

    Raliuven Emperor

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    I should mention that, at least for now, the egyptian units are not willing to attack our Infantry fortified in cities (or anywhere else). I've been putting 1-2 infantry in front line cities and covering workers making rails. They have no fast movers and their rifles wander around pillaging odd tiles with resources that don't matter (at least to us). I've run into mostly rifles, but the odd pike here and there.
     
  5. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Very nice! I'll be surprised if Egypt is still alive when my turn comes up. It's cruising on to space from here on in, I think.

    We may want to make some favorable gpt deals with the weakest of the three civs on the other continent ... prop them up enough that none of the AI civs can conquer the others two. With any luck, they'll be busy in a Cold War situation right up to our launch :lol:
     
  6. Raliuven

    Raliuven Emperor

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    I'm a little worried that the AI is falling too far behind. I was contemplating Japan and Spain carving up the Mayans and then we can use them for gold cows or trading partners. The only inconvenience I see is that it may force us to build the ToE early and use the free techs on IA techs rather than MA techs.

    I don't know there is much hope for them, however. They've still got to research espionage and facism and then they'll go medicine and sanitation. We've got electricity between then & SM IIRC. At best we'll be looking at them for one mandatory tech in the IA and sanitation if we want hospitals, but we're pretty tightly packed for that.

    If we don't start shoring them up we should just resign ourselves to self research and decide on a way to secure 60% of the landmass and all 8 luxuries. I'd be surprised if they are good for even 1 MA tech in their current state. Perhaps if Japan can consolidate the north, but that's a lot of building for the AI and not much time to get it done.
     
  7. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    I think we should plan on self-research. We can sell techs one at a time to the AI in exchange for luxuries and avoid messy overseas wars for the balance of the game.

    OTOH, we might WANT a couple of nice little wars to keep things interesting ... :trouble:
     
  8. Raliuven

    Raliuven Emperor

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    In that case, balancing the three would be nice becaues 3 cores will provide more gpt for us in the long run.

    I think we see what becomes availalbe. :mischief: We might need to start some wars just to get the opportunity to buy all 8 luxuries. Stupid AIs. Of course we are about to be 3 civs less in this game. :D
     
  9. creamcheese

    creamcheese Spreading since 1990

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    A war against Japan could yield us all 4 luxes we are missing. I am finishing off egypt right now, then we can look to overseas expeditions.
     
  10. creamcheese

    creamcheese Spreading since 1990

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    Okay, finished off Egypt and France and lost 0 units I am pretty sure. :D

    Turn Log:
    Spoiler :
    Turn 0, 1250AD; Look around, MM looks good, We are 3 turns from tanks, I switch all but a few cav builds to infantry.

    IBT; 2 Egyptian rifles come out of the mountains. French knight appears on island.

    Turn 1, 1255AD; Bombard rifles to red, kill with cavs. At elephantine, army kills rifle, army kills conscript, army kills pike, take city. At Giza, army kills rifle, cav retreats, cav kills rifle, takes city. Extend rails to new cities. Artillery moves up and bombards Asyut. Two rifles and a pike visible. Find a bunch of cavs I did not know I had. I realize we have few factories:confused:? Switch to some. Found new Ecatapec. Rush a combat settler for next turn. On second though, rush two. And some artillery. Egpyt should be gone next turn.

    IBT; Iros want MPP/RoP, I say no. Get WM+19 gold, for our wm. French knight attacks on island, retreats to infantry. Palace expansion.

    Turn 2, 1260AD; I assemble my combat settlers and artillery. At Asyut, bombard goes well, cav kills pike and promotes, cav kills rifle, cav kills longbow, capture city and trebuchet. use settler, found new coatepec. Extend rails, move up cav and arty. At El-amarna, bombard redlines single rifle, cav kills rifle, take city. Second settler, found new C-somehing. Extend rails, move up arty. At Byblos, redline two rifle and a pike, cav kills rifle, cav kills rifle, cav kills pike, reveal longbow, redline it, kill with cav, capture city and treb and settler. Goddamnit, Egypt has a city on the other continent :mad: (centralia, old Iro city)! I decide to just rush a transport and kill them. I land on the French island with an army, and kill their knight on the other island. We have an empty army, I am saving it.

    IBT; Get motors, flight in 5. Abydos flips :mad:, no units lost :).

    Turn 3, 1265AD; Retake Abydos with arty and army. Extend railnet, MM some farms a bit. At Gewauga, cav kills pike, take city, France is gone! I spend a ton of time MMing and organizing out military; we now have a central reserve in our core where everything is fortified. We need another turn I think until i can rush that transport.

    IBT; Palace expansion.

    Turn 4, 1270AD; MMing, still not quite enough to rush that transport. It looks like Japan and spain have been hurting the Maya, two cities captured, one burned.

    IBT; nada

    Turn 5, 1275AD; Rush that transport, MM more. We have our first tank.

    IBT; Maya unload LB on our big island. Japan gets Fascism.

    Turn 6, 1280AD; Load up my transport with an army and infantry, set out to kill egypt. Found new itzapalapa on the big island (reduces transport distance to 6, one turn harbor to harbor). Tank kills LB.

    IBT; Japan takes another Maya city, they are the civ to beat it looks like.

    Turn 7, 1285AD; Transport is 1 turn from Egypt's city. Lots of worker moves.

    IBT; Maya want peace, lol no. We get Flight, colossus obsoletes, Medicine due in 4 @40%, +451gpt. :D

    Turn 8, 1290AD; Land next to Egypt's city. Worker moves, zzz.

    IBT; We lose wines, very expensive to buy from Spain. I don't want to give up a tech for it. I don't have to adjust any cities either.

    Turn 9, 1295AD; At Centralia, Army kills rifle, burn city, Egypt is gone! Capture trebuchet, have to leave my infantry behind for another load.

    IBT; zzz

    Turn 10, 1300AD; zzz.


    Notes:
    -We have two empty armies, just in case you want to load them up and go kill someone. :cool:
    -we are doing well on 5 luxes, killing Egypt got rid of WW.
    -I have fortified basically all of our army in stacks in our core for easy construction of expeditionary forces, and so everyone knows where our units are. Try to keep this up now that we have rails and our whole continent. No need for garrisons until AI has marines.
    -we have slowed down to the MMing and teching really fast part of the game.
    -no one got medicine, so we are doing it ourselves, with a healthy bit of GPT @20% science.
    -we have 2 tanks, more will come after we get our factories up.
    -we have planes, we need some airports on our islands for airlifting, and a few bombers for raids/killing boats.
    -some destroyers might be nice as well, to kill pesky boats.
     

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  11. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    That's great.

    It is strange that none of the AI got medicine in all this time. It makes me believe that we will be able to use ToE on modern techs with no problems.

    We need to be looking ahead to our prebuilds. I think we should finish ToE the turn we learn electronics, so we can take computers and miniaturization. Ideally, we'd have 4 wonder builds that finish that turn (ToE, then Internet, SETI, and Hoover), but we don't have the prebuilds available. We can prebuild the Internet with the palace, SETI with US, and Hoover with whatever we can get (an army if we don't need to build another building in the military academy city, maybe the intelligence agency if we can pick up espionage, wall street if we have to). I think we'll need to rush a few coal plants, as we are only 14 turns or so from the modern age, and we'll need to re-optimize our core. We may lose Universal Suffrage to someone else, too; this would complicate matters.

    The Internet is our big priority. SETI needs to go somewhere with a lot of commerce. Hoover will be helpful, but it isn't critical.
     
  12. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Prebuilds will be nice, but the AIs are all far enough behind that I don't think we'll have any problems getting all the MA Wonders we want.

    As for Universal Suffrage, easy come, easy go. It's nice to have, but we don't need it.
     
  13. Raliuven

    Raliuven Emperor

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    Excellent set of turns creamcheese! :goodjob:

    I guess I've never cared much for US - is there something I don't know that makes it good for the space race? By this time I'm pretty sure that any war we fight will be at minimal losses, so WW shouldn't be a problem. I'd rather they waste their shields there then make a good fight for ToE.

    RE: Factories - I was trying to rotate these into the building queue but we've got an incredibly lean military so it was important to replace lost units. Now that won't be too much of a problem. :p

    Also, should we wack the Iroquois now to free up some luxury deals? I think giving the AI Refining for 20 turns of luxuries is probably worth it to us. They're never catching up to us now.

    Roster:

    Raliuven
    creamcheese (just played)
    Elephantium (Playing)
    CKS (on deck)
     
  14. creamcheese

    creamcheese Spreading since 1990

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    Re:Re: factories, yes I realized that we probably had been in need of units, I would have just slowed our conquest, factories are pretty critical. Ah well, we are building them in all core cities now, and Hoover's will help a lot. In any case with our continent secure, we now have much less of a need for an army.

    The only really disappointing thing for me in this set was not killing egypt on the second turn, I had it all planned out and the settlers rushed and artillery ready, and they have to go and take another city from someone else :mad:.

    RE: wonders. I would honestly not worry that much about prebuilds. We are so far ahead of the AI in tech (and they are all in fascism/monarchy I think) that they will never get anything but US before us. US is not a very good wonder anyway.

    RE: luxury deals. I would not go too heavily for these, we don't need them very badly. Unless you wanted WLTKD everywhere for a really high score? That is not as important to me I guess. I guess what I would do is attack Japan in the north for 1-2 luxes, giving us 5-6 to ourselves. That way we can just hunker down and research our way to space.
     
  15. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    The idea with prebuilding for the modern science wonders is to get us to 4-turn research in the modern age, not to make sure we get them. Of course we'll get whatever modern-age wonders we decide to build.

    With the internet we get free research labs, which is a substantial jump in beakers from our core cities. The sooner we get it, the better. Likewise, SETI will be a nice jump in beakers. With these, we can expect to continue 4-turn research once we go modern. Delaying them is likely to slow us down. Maybe our science farms will be sufficient, but I doubt it.

    We don't want US for itself, we want to use it for a prebuild. US is a lousy wonder (one war-weary citizen per city is content = garbage, though the culture is nice in a 20k game), but it is an 800 shield prebuild. I expect that it will be built before we reach the modern age, though, leaving us with only an army as a prebuild for SETI, which means it will be a while before we get SETI.

    Hoover is nice because we get free hydro plants, which means less pollution (remember to sell the coal plants) and a production boost. We don't need the production boost until a bit later, when we start building spaceship parts, but it'll be nice.
     
  16. Raliuven

    Raliuven Emperor

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    Ah, I see your point regarding US. I misunderstood the exchange. That makes perfect sense.
     
  17. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Good point re: 4-turn research in modern times. The Internet *will* make a huge difference to our research speed!
     
  18. creamcheese

    creamcheese Spreading since 1990

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    The only problem I see is that the AI had been building US for some time, they might finish before we get to internet.
     
  19. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    As long as they finish US before they learn Scientific Method, it isn't a catastrophe. We lose a good prebuild for SETI, but nothing else. A cascade to ToE is bad, but even that would only cost us about 10 turns, since the AI civs are all so backward.
     
  20. Raliuven

    Raliuven Emperor

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    I highly doubt there will be cacade to ToE. There are just too many techs between the AI and ToE. They would need to research medicine, Electricty and SM - even assuming they beeline they will need somewhere around 20-30 turns at their present pace. It is probably more like 40-50 turns because tthe front runner still needs espionage and facism; they may even stop for Ironclads and probably willl be distracted by sanitation. They could also get lost in the quest for tanks.

    I think it is only possible if they pull a SGL for something unrelated around the time they pull SM. By the time they get around to that we'll be loungiing in AC.

    And if they somehow do pull medicine and electricty, we can always ferment a few wars to keep them busy and away from SM. :D
     

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