Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Raliuven, Sep 2, 2011.
3. I really am skeptical of a second revolt.
SoZ, yes! Great value wonder.
I don't think it's a good idea to have two revolts -- that's a lot of turns of anarchy.
Monarchy wouldn't be a bad idea for a heavy focus on pointy-stick research, but that isn't really the approach we've been planning on.
So, I'd take Lit (if an unknown civ hasn't beaten us to Philosophy ... ) and start on CoL.
I really doubt we'll get beaten to lit, even if we have to research it ourselves. The AI is notoriously bad at getting it. They often go for feudalism before lit.
We can use all that time waiting for republic to build some libraries so we can push the tech pace faster.
I meant if no one has beaten us to Philosophy.
Okay, I started a post musing about a 2nd revolt but my conclusion was My computer crashed and I lost the post, so I'm going to leave it at that. Final thought was that it will probalby even out in the end.
However, one thing I considred was the trade value of Monarchy vs Liturature. But Lit will give us the ability for early libraries.
I'm going to have to keep this save and play it both ways after we finish, just to see.
I would tend to think the second revolt, later libraries, and a later republic would make it much slower on self research front. Not sure about the trading front. Could depend a lot of what the AI goes for.
I think the trading front would depend more on us getting a few more contacts.
It's probably a moot point, anyway: Can we even afford Mysticism in order to trade Phil for Poly?
0% science is a viable strategy, too ... suicide boats are rather more important with that plan, of course.
On the trading front is another argument for going for lit. We have 2(?) contacts and may not have more for some time, esp if we have bad luck on boats. Self research may be required.
I am not so enthusiastic about a 0% research game, it seems a little like not playing a space ship game, to me anyway. It is a perfectly effective way to win, but part of the fun is trying to boost your research capacity to get ahead. I guess it depends on your ultimate goal of playing.
I have to admit that a 0% science game is way outside my comfort level - which in no way invalidates it as a viable strategy, of course.
I was wondering if we could must the resources to trade our way to Monarchy for a free tech. I doesn't seem like we have a whole lot to offer at this point and Egypt is pulling to the front of the civs with whch to be concerned. They've got 10 cities already (IIRC).
I do like the idea of some early libraries.
Yes, we can trade for mysticism right now (it costs 7 gpt), so I'm confident we could get poly after we learn philosophy. Monarchy is worth more than twice as many beakers as literature, but it seems to be where all the AI are headed, so the AI don't have much worth trading for once we get it. The only other tech they have is Math.
Egypt has 11 cities, France has 8, Greece has 7. Egypt has a bunch of cash.
I also vote for literature. If I thought we'd be able to trade Monarchy for a bunch of techs, that would get my vote, but unless we meet some other AI, I don't think that will happen.
I should be able to finish my turns today.
Okay, so 7gpt for Mysticism, then Phil for Poly, and Monarchy is our free tech. We could trade that for IW, Math, and maybe HBR (if someone gets that within a few turns).
Lit is probably the better bet.
We can't get IW or HBR until someone learns it, though. Nobody knows anything else besides Math.
Oh, duh. I traded IW for Writing during my turnset. I can't BELIEVE I forgot that :|
Hmm, I'd expect AIs to be going for Map Making, HBR, and Phil/CoL, with Construction coming along after the Philosophy race is resolved.
Could we trade for math and grab construction? That always seems to be a high cost/highly coveted tech. Construction should get us just about anything other than Monarchy/Republic in a trade and because of its cost we could sit on it for a while and wait for other techs to become known. We'd have to self research lit and republic, though.
We could trade for math and then take construction. We can get math for 13 gpt + 4 g from France. No one has started the great wall, so I doubt anyone has construction. (Construction is about twice the beakers of lit, while currency is a little less than that.)
If someone has already learned construction, we could take currency or literature.
What do you think? Construction or literature? I'll hold off playing until tonight, as this seems to be an open question.
I'd go for Lit. I think it likely that one of the AIs will self-research Construction while we're sitting on it, waiting for someone to research Currency.
I've no objection to Lit. I'm just being greedy.
I'm concerned that Lit won't give us enough leverage for trading later. As I don't think we are going the GLB route, I figured we could grab one of the more expensive techs and make a sweep of MM, HBR, Poly and maybe currency and that would only leave us to research republic and lit (or just republic if the AI has come up with lit by then).
Does Republic hold a good trade value vs. the 1st tier techs in the Middle Ages? If so, we might be able to sweep up a few of those & lit once we have republic.
Downside, without libraries republic might be a long haul. Well that and the inevitable barbarian uprising with the coming of the Middle Ages.
Okay, I'm done dreaming.
Lit. it is a pretty tried and tested method of advancing. We will need libraries eventually, better to get them built early, before out GA if we can. Those multiplier buildings can really boost everything when combined with a republic in GA.
Long term strategy: Maybe go up the bottom to military tradition? It would be nice to get universities first, but the AI likes that path, and we want to clear our continent probably. With a nice defensible continent in the IA we can ride it out researching and maybe grabbing resources. Then we can pick off or dogpile if anyone gets too far ahead, and then blitz our way to Internet and glory!
Well, that was a lot of discussion for nothing, as we weren't first to philosophy.
Move Tlatelolco citizen from regular grass to river grass.
IBT: Apologize to Cleo. Barb horse kills jag on mountain, build curragh, start settler
Workers mine, curragh heads east.
IBT: Settler is built, start a jag. Cleo builds Oracle, starts ToA. So do Greeks. Mayans build the pyramids.
Turn 2: Send settler towards 1N of horses. This isn't an ideal city spot, but it will keep barbs from spawning there. Pausing here - can learn philosophy this turn.
IBT: Get kicked out of Egypt. Learn philosophy. After all this, we weren't first, anyway. Start on lit.
Turn 3: Trade philosophy to France for Math, Mysticism, and 35 g. Trade it to Egypt for 165 g and to Greece for 12 g. Egypt and Greece both are up construction and polytheism; we can't get construction at any price, and poly costs more than we can afford (philosophy plus 11 gpt plus 55 g, before selling philosophy). Lux to 20%, Tlatelolco to Statue of Zeus.
IBT: Tenochtitlan jag to settler. Barb horse visible to west.
Turn 4: Build Calixtlahuaca. Jag goes east for fog-busting.
IBT: Barb horse by Tlatelolco. Egypt and France are at war.
Turn 5: Curragh makes it around the eastern tip of land and spies nearby coastal waters. We make contact with the Maya, who are up map making, HBR, and poly. We can see light blue borders, too. If the curragh survives, we'll meet Spain next turn. Warrior covering worker goes off after barb horse, wins and promotes 5/5.
IBT: Teotihuacan settler to settler, Tlaxcala warrior to barracks, curragh sinks.
Turn 6: Nothing much.
IBT: Curragh to curragh, barb horse attacks Tlaxcala and dies. Maya start Great Lighthouse. There is a sea connection from our continent to theirs.
Turn 7: Nothing much.
IBT: Barb horse appears by Tlatelolco. Tenochtitlan settler to barracks.
Turn 8: Reg warrior kills barb horse, promotes. Build Xochicalco and the eastern end is safe from barbs.
IBT: Egypt learns map making, we connect horses.
Turn 9: Nothing much.
IBT: Nothing much.
Turn 10: Just moving.
Settler should settle, disbanding the barb camp next turn. One more settler will make the south secure from barbs.
There is a curragh headed over toward Spain. A galley could cross safely; if we can pick up map making cheaply it would be great.
I've got the save. I probably can't play until tomorrow.
It was still a nice discussion! Thanks everyone!
creamcheese (on deck)
CKS (just played)
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