random fact that angers me

[guare]

there are small facts about civ3 that just pisses me off.

i was xerxes, as ever. i was happy dealing with my new conquered babylonian cities, managing moods and building improvements. out of nowhere (i should expect that) montezuma attacked my immortals with some swords.

when he attacked, my elites defended first. i lost almots all my elites just to realize that the only thing left was my regulars and veterans! wtf, if i could pick units to lose, it would be those crappy regulars. but no, its always the unit with most hp.

it would be better if u could choose the unit u were going to defend or if it were random.

a question: if i got a elite immortal and a regular spear, wich is going to defend first?

 

[Turner]

Probably the Elite Immortal. There's a formula which takes into consideration the defender's defensive strength and the number of hit points, and the unit that has the highest number will defend first. This means that an Elite MDI will defend before a Veteran Spearman.

Frustrating, yes. But aside from keeping your Elites out of harms way, there's not much you can do about it.

 

[Mirc]

I have to admit I also hate this!

 

[rescuerick]

i'm not thrilled with it either. like you, i would also much prefer the ability to choose my defender. some would be sacrificial lambs (perhaps my outdated units) or my mounted units which at least have a chance to retreat. but the AI doesn't have a choice either, so i guess we live with it.

my worst case was when i was playing Persia and just revolted because i discovered republic (hoping to get through anarchy and then trigger a my GA by using my UU). well of course the AI attacks my city, it throws out my immortal to defend, i win, and get a GA with like 7 turns of anarchy. i would have preferred if the AI had attacked and beat one of my other units in the city, or even defeated that immortal...

 

[Virtual Alex]

It would give the player too great of an advantage. You could keep a bunch of warriors and tanks in a city, and have the warriors defend, and never risk losing a unit with any value. But it does suck to lose elites. This bothers me the most when I have an army. When an army of cavalry defeats a city and ends up having bout 6 hp left. Then I get attacked and the send the amry to defend when the city has 5 perfectly good infantry! The army loses and dies >_<!

 

[Runes]

I've thought about this, too, but a lot of the time your best defensive unit will be in a position where it isn't easily defeated. Once you get railroads you can just leave your elites deep inside your empire, then if then enemy attacks you counterattack.

 

[guare]

It would give the player too great of an advantage. You could keep a bunch of warriors and tanks in a city, and have the warriors defend, and never risk losing a unit with any value.

indeed! but it should have another way to solve this.. T__T

 

[rescuerick]

indeed! but it should have another way to solve this.. T__T

a possible solution would be that the player can only use obsolete units for a given period of time. say "x" number of turns after the obsolete units are two or so techs behind... for example - i have spears, get the tech for pikes and then muskets - i now have say 20 turns to upgrade my spears or they are disbanded or turn into workers or something. this isn't totally farfetched either, how many really "obsolete units" do we really see in the world today? or instead of automatic disband, the maintenance the cost should begin to increase for obsolete units regardless of your government type - this is not unrealistic if you consider things in today's business world like hardware/software support... biggest drawback would revolve around resources for the new units - in the example above, what if i don't have gunpowder? changes the complexity of the game immensely - how you research, how you trade, when to conquer for a resource, the value of Suns and Leos, etc... this solution should also have something in it that stops dead end upgrade paths...

 

[AutomatedTeller]

well, I admit we don't see many stone age warrior bands... but then, no one has sid level upkeep, either.

and it's a more cosmopolitan time, too.

It wasn't uncommon for different eras of technology to fight each other - see the spanish vs. the incans (pistols vs. spears). The english vs. the scots (cannon vs. broadsword) WWII had cavalry attacking tanks with artillery and air support.

Heck, I dont' know, but I have to assume that the ability of the european colonial nations to take over much of the known world had to do, in large part, to being technologically superior.

 

[DaveMcW]

I never let my elites heal to 5HP if I think the stack will be attacked. 4HP veterans defend before 4HP elites.

 

[Virtual Alex]

It's true we see different techs fighting, but that because one civ hasn't learned anything better. The incas used spears to defend against pistols not because they had a bunch of obsolete spearmen sitting around, it's because it's all they knew. if the inca had guns, I am sure the spanish conquest would have gone differently.

Same story with Cavs vs Tanks. The cav side had nothing better to use, and cav was not obsolete. Also tanks are only 1 tech step (as an offensive unit) from cavs, so they would still be ok. Only once you get Modern Armor, the 2nd step (as an offensive unit) would the cavalry be forced to disband.

If I understand the theory right. I think it's a great idea.

 

[guare]

yeah, thats a brilliant idea! i never thought that my thread would turn into a "cult discussion about civIII" XD

does anyone knows how to make a mod that works kinda this way? i suck at programming and stuff like that..

 

[Elite]

Works what way? to make weaker soldiers defend before the stronger? well, I make mods but they are mod maps more often then not.


I useally make Marines overpowerful(they were also my main Civ's 'unique' unit) they have like

HP:20
ATT:1000
DEF:1000
MOVE:100

as you can see Marines are the ultimate fighting force in my mods(2 Marines are enough to conquer a whole continent just about)



I'm not really ure how to make thec weaker defend before the stronger.

 

[rescuerick]

Works what way? to make weaker soldiers defend before the stronger?

no the mod that is being proposed would cause units to go obsolete once you have reached certain higher techs (maybe two or so techs higher - muskets might obsolete spears), with a small grace period (say 20 turns). the obsolete unit could automatically disband or have a significantly higher maintenance cost

 

[pol1]

IIRC if You have some units with same def stat, and same hp - top defender will be the one which is of the 'defender type'
i mean : spears vs swords
(pikes vs knights also? i'm not sure)

with different stats it gets to the point where Your elite or other attacker defends Your defender
well, not a good thing

 

[TimBentley]

Of two units with the same defense and hp, the cheaper would defend first.

 

[TheLoneMan]

I think that shield cost should factor into the equation along with HP and defense rating. And elites should cost more shields (duh).

 

[pol1]

thx!
i've missed that fact earlier