Random Question on War Weariness

[Fafnir13]

Do summoned units still count towards? If so, why?
If not, forget I asked anything.

Side Note: Other units that shouldn't count toward war weariness include
Undead, Golems, and possibly demons/angels.

 

[Kyroshill]

You'll have to wait for codemonkeys to get the real answer.....

But in the meatime I would suggest that summoned units still count against WW.

I say this because I know that if you at war with an AI, and you are trading summoned units for thier actual military, the AI still believes it is winning the war.

In other words, if you have killed 30 AI champions, 20 AI horses, and 10 AI archers..... and the AI has killed off 40 spectres and 30 skellies..... the AI will demand tribute to end the war.

So I guess that the war machine has no way of knowing whether a unit is alive, not alive, or summoned.... a unit is a unit.

 

[zup]

Why not golems? They are nothing special, but very expensive.

 

[apotheoser]

Why not golems? They are nothing special, but very expensive.

Because they're not "alive", or at least they don't have a "family" who gets all pissy and stops going to work because.

 

[Milaga]

Because they're not "alive", or at least they don't have a "family" who gets all pissy and stops going to work because.

Ah ha! But the golem makers might get tired of making golems that just get blowed up a few turns after leaving the workshop.

Oh my.

Golems, yes, I can understand WW. Elementals and undead, no I just can't see it. Also, I don't see these units as requiring maintenance either. I can understand the argument for it, but the last game I played as Sheiam I was over-taxed on units and when I'd summon some wraiths I'd get hit hard with unit support costs. That doesn't make sense.

Sorry, not trying to derail here ...

 

[Thunder_Gr]

Ah ha! But the golem makers might get tired of making golems that just get blowed up a few turns after leaving the workshop.

Oh my.

Golems, yes, I can understand WW. Elementals and undead, no I just can't see it. Also, I don't see these units as requiring maintenance either. I can understand the argument for it, but the last game I played as Sheiam I was over-taxed on units and when I'd summon some wraiths I'd get hit hard with unit support costs. That doesn't make sense.

Sorry, not trying to derail here ...

I do not say I agree with the whole consept. I mean, I believe golems, Undead and Elementals shouldn't add to WW. But, if someone follows your way of thinking, the mages may get tired of summoning elementals and undead, after all, it is a quite draining procedure to summon them.

 

[Earthling]

First thing, since I don't know exactly how the system works now: If you're in a battle against a summon/undead/etc... and lose (say a champion) then you get war weariness. The owner of the summon is the only one who doesn't get WW. If the system currently doesn't count the whole battle it's kinda stupid - it's also stupid to get war weariness from fighting a skellie and winning, don't know how it works again. Summons should also not count in your power rankings unless permanent (including treants) or maybe for the summoner trait (that may be hard code to work around, maybe just a flat power increase of mages/archmages would even be better, but even if nothing could be done I'd still rather not have summons mess with the power graph).

Secondly I also agree about unit support costs. Relates to the discussion we had about inflation earlier - it definitely contributes to doubling or more support costs for summoned undead which die in a turn anyway, don't think it makes a lot of sense myself.

Golems are a close call; upon reflection I could live with it unless or until playtesting shows it makes Luchuirp too powerful.

 

[Kyroshill]

First thing, since I don't know exactly how the system works now: If you're in a battle against a summon/undead/etc... and lose (say a champion) then you get war weariness. The owner of the summon is the only one who doesn't get WW. If the system currently doesn't count the whole battle it's kinda stupid - it's also stupid to get war weariness from fighting a skellie and winning, don't know how it works again. Summons should also not count in your power rankings unless permanent (including treants) or maybe for the summoner trait (that may be hard code to work around, maybe just a flat power increase of mages/archmages would even be better, but even if nothing could be done I'd still rather not have summons mess with the power graph).

Secondly I also agree about unit support costs. Relates to the discussion we had about inflation earlier - it definitely contributes to doubling or more support costs for summoned undead which die in a turn anyway, don't think it makes a lot of sense myself.

Golems are a close call; upon reflection I could live with it unless or until playtesting shows it makes Luchuirp too powerful.

Basically.... you get WW when one of your units dies in battle outside your borders. If you are defending your homes, it's kinda hard to just get angry at your gov't... you're too busy fighting off the enemy.... other than that, I pretty sure that ANY unit who dies on foreign soil adds to WW.... skellie, spectre, ice golem, or whatever

 

[xalien]

You get WW even if you kill an enemy (non-barb) unit in your own territory, although a bit less than losing your own.

Edit: or maybe not, maybe it was an occasional unit I killed just outside my borders: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=181512

Anyway, is there a way to see my own WW like you can see your enemies when you hover over their names?

 

[Nihilus]

Basically.... you get WW when one of your units dies in battle outside your borders. If you are defending your homes, it's kinda hard to just get angry at your gov't... you're too busy fighting off the enemy.... other than that, I pretty sure that ANY unit who dies on foreign soil adds to WW.... skellie, spectre, ice golem, or whatever

there are a few units that are specifically stated to not cause WW, mercenaries come to mind but there are probably others.

 

[dyx]

Basically.... you get WW when one of your units dies in battle outside your borders. If you are defending your homes, it's kinda hard to just get angry at your gov't... you're too busy fighting off the enemy.... other than that, I pretty sure that ANY unit who dies on foreign soil adds to WW.... skellie, spectre, ice golem, or whatever

I'm suffering quite a bit from war weariness and I hardly lose any units, because I fight with highly promoted elites and heroes who don't die... so there's a bit more about it. I find it quite stupid, because as you say defending shouldn't cause war weariness - and it's not like I'm the aggressor there. Annoying.