Ranged combat and mordern warfare

[Seashore]

I have since I heard of Civ 5 been checking this forum for info and found many interesting features. Combat even if it's not the most important feature have had many important changes.

We already know much about it but i think we don't very much about ranged combat and especially mordern combat, for example we know that archers shoot 2 tiles but not atleast not I how long for example a unit of riflemen shoot if they can shoot at all. In my opinion it would be very strange if the later is the case.

Another thing is how powerful is ranged combat is? can you win all battles with only archers or are they a waste of production that could been used to build spearmen?

What I would like to know is how ranged combat and mordern warfare works.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Another thing is how powerful is ranged combat is? can you win all battles with only archers or are they a waste of production that could been used to build spearmen?

You'll need both. And you'll want to have horsmen, swordsmen and catapults as well

 

[Sonereal]

Another thing is how powerful is ranged combat is? can you win all battles with only archers or are they a waste of production that could been used to build spearmen?

Well, you can't just spam spearmen anymore and can't win with only archers. The thing about it is that in Civ5, archers and siege weapons will work like actual support weapons and spamming either of them would lead to the enemy being able to just walk up to the artillery battery and smash it to bits.

So, the answers to your question is in between the two extremes you posted. You're going to want support fire but you absolutely will need front line units.

 

[Olleus]

Another thing is how powerful is ranged combat is? can you win all battles with only archers or are they a waste of production that could been used to build spearmen?

Not having played the game yet, we don't know if its balanced. What we hope is that you need some of everything to win a war. But we don't know that yet.

 

[Schuesseled]

ranged units can kill things they shoot at, just like any unit, you could technically have just archers in an army, but that would leave you very vulnerable to fast moving melee units.

 

[Ahriman]

but not atleast not I how long for example a unit of riflemen shoot if they can shoot at all

Archers, crossbowmen and siege units are support units, with 2 range bombardment (3 for rocket artillery).

Muskets, rifles, infantry, tanks, etc. are front-line troops, they do not have a ranged bombardment attack.

 

[Seashore]

Archers, crossbowmen and siege units are support units, with 2 range bombardment (3 for rocket artillery).

Muskets, rifles, infantry, tanks, etc. are front-line troops, they do not have a ranged bombardment attack.

So all ranged units have the same range, it wouldn't suprise if tanks and cavalry had the same movement. It's ridiculous that infantry and tanks can't attack the enemy from afar when archers can but i guess i will have to live with it.

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

Gameplay. Archers were actually used as support units rifles were not. It also allows an early game ranged unit that doesn't have to set up.

 

[Polobo]

Since units do not have to die post-combat I would think that it would take multiple archery ranged attacks to weaken a unit enough to actually kill it. Hoping that you can (edit: NOT) both range attack and move in the same turn - plus we know that you lose at least 1 turn for siege-like weapons while they setup for the shot - and thus melee units (which should have a melee strength advantage) would be able to close while taking only some damage and be able to take out the ranged attackers. Having a "infantry" line would limit that both due their mere presence as well as the Zone-of-Control.

Japan would really do well in this regard since even if they are wounded they would still be likely to take out the ranged attackers since Japan would be attacking at full force even when damaged from the pot-shots.

 

[12agnar0k]

Archers, crossbowmen and siege units are support units, with 2 range bombardment (3 for rocket artillery).

Muskets, rifles, infantry, tanks, etc. are front-line troops, they do not have a ranged bombardment attack.

no the rocket artillery still only has 2 range, there is an upgrade that gives an additional range point though, which Rocket Artilleries can get.

The only unit we know that starts with 3 range is the battleship (maybe the destroyer too I think I read).

 

[AriochIV]

Hoping that you can (edit: NOT) both range attack and move in the same turn - plus we know that you lose at least 1 turn for siege-like weapons while they setup for the shot

Archery units can move and then attack in the same turn, but normally attacking uses all remaining movement, so you can't fire and then move away.

The exception to this rule is that some (and perhaps all) mounted units can Move After Attacking, and since there are a few mounted archery units, if they have this attribute they may be able to "shoot and scoot."

 

[King Jason]

So all ranged units have the same range, it wouldn't suprise if tanks and cavalry had the same movement. It's ridiculous that infantry and tanks can't attack the enemy from afar when archers can but i guess i will have to live with it.

The scale changes as you go up through the ages. It's not that rifleman can't shoot as far as archers... it's that, technically speaking, the scale has shifted such that the distance within a hex has grown.

Otherwise as you go up through the ages, unit ranges would get larger and larger and it could be a balancing nightmare.

 

[Ahriman]

if they have this attribute they may be able to "shoot and scoot.

I hope that the AI knows how to do this. It would be fantastic to have an AI that could actually use horse archer skirmishers.

 

[Thyrwyn]

I hope that the AI knows how to do this. It would be fantastic to have an AI that could actually use horse archer skirmishers.

We can only dream...maybe by the time the Mongols get added

 

[stealth_nsk]

We can only dream...maybe by the time the Mongols get added

We'll see if Arabs will be able to.

 

[Ahriman]

We can only dream..

I'm hoping for this kind of AI behavior for a Rome/Mediterannan mod.

I'd like to have:
skirmishers (javelin and sling) : low bombard strength, 2 moves, can fire and then move.
archers (bow): moderate bombard strength, 2 moves,
siege (scorpion): high bombard strength, 2 moves, takes entire turn to setup.
legion (javelin + sword): very low bombard strength, good melee strength
horse archers : expensive, moderate bombard strength, 3 moves, can fire and then move
javelin cavalry : moderate bombard strength but 1 range, 3 moves, can fire and then move
cataphracts: moderate bombard strength, good melee strength, 3 moves, expensive and intensive resource requirements

And then:
Hoplite: standard melee, bonus defending.
Phalangite: 1 move, very high strength, bonus defending.
Elephants: 2 moves, high melee strength, penalty defending, requires rare resource.

and so forth.

If skirmishing works, we can have a whole new kind of warfare.

 

[Mercade]

All this is good and well, but archers aren't going to influct a lot of damage on tanks or even riflemen. This isn't the new spearman v tank topic. An archer has 6 ranged attack. Tanks are 50 and riflemen are 25 strength ("Plok. Plok. Uhm, I don't see any hail. No, it's a barrange from the archers on that hill").

Archers have to be seen in their era. If you don't have cannons (or even trebuchets) to support your attack or defence when the opponent marches rifleman into the battlefield, you're in a pretty bad shape as it is and you should only be happy that the opposing riflemen don't fire two tiles into your petty archers.

 

[kaltorak]

Now that I think of it, anciend and medieval times sound cool with mele in front and ranged behind. But what about modern times, ALL units will be ranged?...

 

[Mercade]

Now that I think of it, anciend and medieval times sound cool with mele in front and ranged behind. But what about modern times, ALL units will be ranged?...

No, only ranged weapons will be ranged (cannons, artillery). Regular or armoured units (riflemen, tanks, ...) will not be ranged. Oh, and various modern naval units will be ranged, too. See the confirmed features thread for the full lists.

 

[kaltorak]

No, only ranged weapons will be ranged (cannons, artillery). Regular or armoured units (riflemen, tanks, ...) will not be ranged. Oh, and various modern naval units will be ranged, too. See the confirmed features thread for the full lists.

Archers are ranged. So an archer can shoot from far away and a rifle and tank can't?