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Rank the traits 1-11

I don't really understand why this list is here. In the end, there are so many factors involved in the game that certain traits are better than others in certain scenarios and with certain leaders/neighbors. It's impossible to give a real rank to them.

Yes yes we know but that's the boring logical answer. Go make a proper list like a real man! ;)
1 Fin
2 Phil
3 Ind
4-8 Cre, Exp, Char, Spir, Org
9 Agg
10 Imp
11 Pro

I try to avoid the last 3 traits unless there is clear synergy with the other trait. I try to target the first 3 traits. The ones in the middle I really enjoy as support traits for the 1st three. Sometimes, if you pair them together as well there are nice synergies, with Mehmed and Zara being good examples.
Top tier - ORG, FIN, CHA, CRE

2nd tier - PHI, IND, EXP, SPI

Bottom tier - AGG, PRO, IMP
Funny nanomage - I didn't even notice how close our lists were - looks like we differed in 1-2 spots down near the bottom, but same at the top.

Although I did have a good game with Charlemagne and my two bottom traits - guess the UB and UU are both pretty solid.

it's his UB i guess :)
i dare say it's second best in all game
1. Cre hate monuments, love fast border pops. Libraries too!
1. Phi
1. Org

2. Spi - nice, but only for the anarchy, I rarely build temples
2. Ind - cheap forges I love, fast wonders too.

3. Fin - I hate low production cities, it just isn't my style
3. Agg - cha+cheap barracks - for me that is

4. Cha - because i hate building monuments, also most often my units DIE in combat anyway!
4. Imp - actually like it very much, but its just not that powerful.

5. Exp
5. Pro

My best game was with Gilgamesh - until I randomed Pericles and Zara :lol:
As always I prefice this by saying I love all the traits. However, ranked in power

1- ORG
2- FIN
3- AGG
4- SPI
5- CRE
6- PHI
7- EXP
8- IND
9- CHA
11- PRO

This is for an emperor level player at marathon speed.

My views of ranking has changed somewhat. Industrious is lower as I can usually get key wonders I want anyway and the extra hammers for national wonders are soso. Phil is not what it has seamed in the past. Aggresive is ranked very high by myself as I can usually take all the land I want with that trait essentially nerfing any others. Spiritual I have found simply amazing to pop in and out of slavery to avoid city revolts and saving a bit on upkeep.
Top tier - FIN, ORG, CHA, PHI

2nd tier - SPI, AGG, PRO, IMP, IND, EXP, CRE

No way to rank them, the way I like and value them, top tier seems generally stronger, usefullnes of other traits depend on situation greatly.
Why deity specifically?
Deity is a completely different game. In terms of the relative power of the various traits, there is more difference between Immortal and Deity than between Immortal and Noble.

The AI expands so fast and has so many free units. Consequently traits that allow you to claim land are, relatively, far more valuable at this level than at lower ones. With Creative, you can seal off an area and then expand at your leisure. In a different way, the same argument applies to Imperialistic. The ability to build settlers faster is so useful. ABCF's argument in favour of Pro is pretty persuasive too but it doesn't apply at all to Immortal. On the flip side, builder traits like Ind are far less useful. You simply don't have the time to take advantage of them.

None of this applies to lower levels. It is perfectly possible to go wonder-whoring on Immortal as obsolete has shown. You can't do it on Deity. The best you can do is to get one or two.

As for Cre, there are many ways to expand borders. To start with, monuments are cheap and can be chopped/whipped. It will take around 10-15 turns to expand with a monument as opposed to 5 turns for Cre. With few exceptions, I am not going to let that difference decide the placement of my cities on Immortal (and certainly not on Monarch). It could be critical on Deity. The best thing about the trait, actually, is the cheap libraries. A library is a building that is undesirable to whip since its purpose is mainly to gain the right to hire scientists. If you whip the building, it kinda defeats the purpose.
Well I've played with every trait multiple times, as I try to cover a wide variety of leaders. I never use the same trait twice in a row either... keeps things varied. So here is my not-quite-deity-level experience of the traits.

Cheap courthouses. They are glorious. It becomes so much easier to expand when any tiny distant city can easily build/chop/whip these things out. Your slider drops in your rapid early expansion, and one of the things that brings it back up the most are courthouses coming up everywhere. With organized, this process is so much faster and more convenient.

Cheap lighthouses have never really made a major impact, they're pretty cheap already, but they're still nice to have. Cheap factories gives a superb late game boost, giving you a production bonus when its most handy, right before you enjoy speeding up your empire's production by +75%. (factories + coal plants everywhere) Signifigantly speeding up this process lets you attack with a strong infantry army sooner, very powerful. The -50% civic upkeep bonus gives an invisible boost to your empire; I never notice it, but I'm sure its helping all along.

A glorious all-in-one trait. The freedom to switch civics often and without penalty makes you extremely flexible and enjoy a wide variety of bonuses. On top of the static bonus of standard civic swaps, removing a half-dozen turns of anarchy (i.e. wasted turns) from the game, if you abuse it you can get great results. Diplomatic manipulation isn't to be underestimated either, once I couldn't get a trade I wanted due to worst enemy status, so I quickly jumped into his religion for five turns to get the trade without penalty, yay!

Organized's -50% boost? You can enjoy lower upkeep civics until you need the higher one, and jump out as soon as its not needed. You don't need to stay in Slavery or Police State or whatever for long periods of time when you aren't using their benefits!

Aggressive's free promotions? You can hop in and out of Theocracy/Vassalage to enjoy powerful units for brief building periods, without sacrificing the nice civilian civics. Philosophical's 100% great person boost? Just hop into Pacifism whenever you're trying to rush out great people, and then leave once you got what you wanted.

Cheap temples aren't too great on their own but if you get the apropiate wonders, expecially the +2 hammers from the apostolic palace, they become very worthwhile buildings indeed that you'll want everywhere, so building them quick is great.

Yay the big boring powerful trait that ruins multiplayer games but making 80% of the players limited to a selection of 10 leaders. :mischief:

Still this sucker is powerful and I easily notice the boost early on, where it strengthens riverside cottages by 50%. It simply keeps your slider generally higher and your research generally stronger, a solid all around boost to your research that can never be underestimated. And after a late game cottage spam, it can easily be adding another 10% to your regular income, which can amount to over 500 beakers if you're big and powerful enough!

A truly superb trait that lets your initial capital grow to size 7 instead of size 5. The extra happiness leads to larger cities in general early on, which leads to more tiles worked or more specialists. All around a very powerful boost to whatever you want: hammers, commerce, GPs, whatever. Not bad in wars either to help fend off war weariness.

And of course the cheap promotions help a lot too, I find this by far the strongest of any military trait. (and it seems pretty much everyone agrees) For one, it boosts every unit and not just a single type, and the boost lasts all game long. Even if the early game it's noticable, your first warrior/scout only needs 4 EXP to reach Woodsman II, which can speed up the exploring process signifigantly when EXP can be risky to come by.

I like building wonders, the wonderspam/settled great specialist economy is probably one of the most powerful ways I've ever played. This tech makes it easier and less reliant on finding stone or marble around, though without the trait if you have stone/marble it's still fairly easy to beat the AI to wonders.

So thankfully there's another boost, cheap forges. You're one oracle slingshot away to a cheap and handy production boost around your empire that even your weaker cities can afford. Certainly makes early forges viable and production is power, never regretted having those buildings cheap.

Very handy civic. It's more than not having to worry about border pops, you can settle aggressively at your opponents and push their borders back. The free culture goes a long way to strong borders, and the cheap libraries add a lot to that. You can get more land than you normally could hope for, stealing resources and tiles from the poor AI.

Plus libraries are a very handy building to build everywhere and getting +25% science and two scientist specialists for only 45 hammers is superb. Cheap theatres and colloseums never really made a big difference though... though the theatres are nice to strengthen newly conquered city's culture after an invasion.

This trait is by no means bad, I just haven't found it as strong as you would think. It's a very specialized trait, and like creative its power is strongest in the early game. You can get your first great people out much faster than other civs and they can be very helpful if you know how to use them right, plus you can do lots of fun things with bulbing. (oracle --> education slingshot ;) ) However towards the medieval era with the National Epic and Caste System, you can start churning out GP after GP without the trait. Plus if your spiritual, hopping into pacifism adds another boost. You'll still get more GPs than non-philosophical civs, but the gap won't be nearly as wide.

Cheap universities are good, as universities are usually a subpar building. Very expensive for what is essentially another library that won't even give you more scientist specialists! With philosophical though they are much more economic, and you get them in your science cities all the sooner. The biggest bonus of course is obtaining Oxford University signifigantly faster, I've found that building always gives a HUGE science boost.

I don't like having this trait down this low because really I consider it on par with most of the traits above! Cheap granaries are just wonderful early on when you're expanding. They're one of the first things new cities should build, and new cities tend to have poor production, so any boost is very welcome. And once the city's growth speed is doubled, it becomes useful much faster. I consider them to be the main appeal of the trait.

Cheap harbors are nice, but not something to die for. Cheap workers would be huge if they weren't so fickle... only +25% hammer production, doesn't make too much of a difference. In the early game if you go worker first while working a forested plains hill its very nice though. The +2 health is nice but only really helps in the late game once factories are up everywhere, and then it only saves you 2 food. Not really a game changer.

I have played with this trait a lot and I really like it! Both of its bonuses are strong, however they lack a really nice synergy like most traits have. If I'm building lots of settlers, odds are I'm not earning lots of great generals! So the effects are spread out throughout the game and don't compliment each other, still a nice trait.

The cheap settler is a much stronger bonus than expansive's cheap worker. You'll usually be chopping/whipping these out early game and it gets a large boost here. More and earlier great generals are handy as well, I like settling most of them in a single city for really powerful units off the bat. Regardless of what you use them for, they'll certainly help in your wars.

Stronger units, yay! The main bonus I've found for this trait is in the early game, when you can specialize your melee units to have them much stronger after just a cheap barracks. Instead of combat or city raider, your newborn units can select things like shock and cover. Any early rushes become much easier...

After that though I find seige taking on forefront of my attacks, and melee units are typically left to mopping up and defense. The strength bonus helps, but doesn't make a terribly big difference at this point. Cheap barracks are nice, expecially early on, you can get promoted units out really quickly. Drydocks are a decent bonus as well, but I'd prefer cheap Stables instead.

Yeah, no surprise here, sorry guys. ;) I've used protective but it's never really been something I felt greatly boosted my empire. It doesn't enjoy the powerful really early offensive strength aggressive gives to melee units, as archers make for crappy attackers. And like aggressive, it loses a lot of its relevance with seige. When attacking offensively, Drill I is all right but once again like with aggressive I find it doesn't make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

I rarely build walls and castles outside of border cities and to be honest they are pretty cheap for non-protective civs. I have been attacked while protective and when I am it makes me initially happy I have it, but in the end I find it doesn't really protect me that much as melee, mounted and seige do most of the talking. Cheap castles can be handy but only if I'm not rushing to economic's free GM.
Traits to base your economy on:

Fin / Phi / Ind

Financial is top for a Cottage economy and Philosophical is top for Specialist Economy. Ind for Wonder Economy.

Of course, you probably dont want Fin for an SE, you probably dont want Phi for a CE, and Ind because an ok support trait for something other than a Wonder Economy.

Top support traits:

Org / Spir

Org is great in any strategy except a very small empire. Its probably the best trait for a conqueror, helps you afford the cities. Spiritual is helpful in any strategy, especially if you do a lot of micro. These are versatile and strong.

Okay Traits:

Cha / Exp / Cre / Imp


Agg / Pro

Agg is weaker than Cha for military, imo. And weaker than Org. And an economic tech could generally give you more or more advanced units instead.
Until Pro protects you against pillaging as well it doesnt seem worth it.
1. Financial
2. Organized
3. Industrious
4. Charismatic
5. Expansive
6. Aggressive
7. Creative
8. Imperialistic
9. Spiritual
10. Philosophical
11. Protective
Up to post 35, just adding up the ranks (if people gave several rankings, I took the clarifications or the higher-leveled one) we get

ORG  53.5
FIN  57
CHA  91
SPI  96.5
PHI  96.5
CRE 110
IND 125
EXP 136.5
AGG 168.5
IMP 174
PRO 206.5

I'm surprised ORG is in the lead; I thought I was in the minority for rating that trait very very highly.
I'm surprised ORG is in the lead; I thought I was in the minority for rating that trait very very highly.

I am glad to see ORG finally getting the love it deserves!
1. Fin - Boring but true
2. Org - The cheaper buildings almost put it over fin
3. Cha - Love the free Happy and promos
4. Cre - I'm a big fan of settling aggressively towards the AI, and this HELPS
5. Spi - Getting better and better at leveraging this
6. Ind - Losing it's luster, resources are more important for wonders
7. Exp - Gaining more luster, I love the quick granaries!
8. Philo - Only playing on Monarch, so bulbing the lib path isn't necessary
9. Imp - I used to like this a lot more, but unless I start on a 3 hammer hill, I feel it's limited, although chopping out settlers is pretty cool.
10. Aggressive - Another one I used to like more, but if I'm not rushing, it's not gonna help me a ton
11. Proctective - Please too many threads about this one already. It's the 11th best trait, not the worst :goodjob:
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