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Rank the UBs!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by MilesBeyond, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. MilesBeyond

    MilesBeyond Prince

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    Similar to the Favourite UB thread, I thought it might be interesting to try and separate the UBs into four different categories: Fantastic, Good, Meh, Crap. See if we can come up with a system that makes life easier for players who want to grasp how good their UB is on a practical level at a glance.

    Keep it to 8 UBs per category, this leaves 2 left over which can be added to whichever category you want.

    So for example, you might say:

    Fantastic:
    Terrace
    Sacrificial Alter

    Good:
    Rathaus
    Mint

    Meh:
    Mall
    Madrassa

    Crap:
    Assembly Plant
    Dun

    I'll do a full one later.

    Obviously it'll be subjective to an extent (i.e. whether Forum is Good or Meh depends on your approach to GP) but I still think it'll be cool to see.
     
  2. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    The Dun kicks ass!

    I know a guy who was struggling on Noble until he built this, and it took his game right to the next level!
     
  3. TheWilltoAct

    TheWilltoAct I am observe

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    Well, I think this has been discussed at length in previous threads but a quick search only revealed one.
     
  4. MilesBeyond

    MilesBeyond Prince

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    Not quite. The idea of this thread is that top 5s are for suckers.
     
  5. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Not only does the dun provide the regular awesomeness that walls do. But it does more than that, you get a free gorilla with every archer.
     
  6. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    ^That made me laugh.

    Fantastic:
    Ziggurat
    Terrace
    Ikhanda
    Cothon
    Dike
    Hammam
    Citadel
    Ger

    Good:
    Madrassa
    Mint
    Seowon
    Pavilion
    Odeon
    Sacrificial Altar
    Rathaus
    Shale plant
    Stock Exchange

    Meh:
    Obelisk
    Salon
    Stele
    Dun
    Mausoleum
    Baray
    Trading post
    Hippodrome

    Crap:
    Assembly Plant
    Totem pole
    Mall
    Feitoria (except if you are playing a financial leader)
    Forum
    Research institute
    Apothecary
    Garden
     
  7. Woreczko

    Woreczko Chieftain

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    Interesting.

    I find Totem Pole a pretty good UB. +3 xp on a unit class, that is resource free and get`s 2 free promos from the leader trait. It makes SB`s archery units okayish, hammer efficient (city) attackers. And you are going to build monuments anyway.

    Mall is very late, but the bonus is pretty good: 20% extra gold and 3 happy faces.

    Garden is based on a quite affordable and useful colosseum and 2 extra health is nothing to complain about. It`s like cheaper and weaker Hammam, which you listed as "fantastic".
     
  8. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    8,051
    I am sure I have seen a typo like that in the past...gorilla promotion. Lulz. :lol:
     
  9. elohssa

    elohssa Warlord

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    I 'd put the assembly plant in the meh category. Getting industrialised fast is very useful and the double production speed (with coal) is a big bonus.

    Fantastic:

    Sac Alter
    Rathaus
    Dike
    Stock Exchange

    Good:

    citadel
    Mint
    Shale Plant
    Mall
    Salon (largely because i like rep)
    ikhanda


    meh

    ziggurat
    apothecary
    assembly plant

    crap

    dun
    forum
    garden
    res institute (too late in game)
     
  10. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Yes, Totem Pole is pretty good UB, but extremely situational.
    No, archers are not hammer efficient city attackers. Nor are longbows. Crossbows are, before longbows, but as the cost of Machinery is comparable to the cost of Feudalism, you almost have to use some weird kind of slingshot to get Machinery that fast (Oracling MC and using the GE you get from a forge to bulb Machinery comes to mind).
    And defending? I only had one game in which I successfully defended with same era units. Being the defender is not near optimal once your enemy starts to bring enough siege. Better to crush that stack in the field.
    Yes, Mall is very late, and I have usually won the game before refrigeration. And you need the wonders for the happiness. It has some uses when you are using a rush-buy tactic to finish everyone off, but when I tech that far, I usually go for space and my money slider isn't high enough to make it even worth building.

    Yes, I listed Hammam as Fantastic, and Garden as Crap. Mind you, I first wanted to post it in meh, but I already had 8 buildings in there.
    Hamman is not equal to a garden. Why? Because the Hammam gives 2 :) extra. The garden gives two :health: extra. I usually do not run into health issues until the industrial era, and health issues are not nearly as important as happy issues. With two unhealth, you have to work one 2:food: tile less. With 2 unhappy, you have to work two tiles less.
     
  11. elohssa

    elohssa Warlord

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    I largely agree with this. Totem pole is probably best in the hands of the AI (same goes for the protective trait). Having said that archers are useful when defending against barbs so I guess it's not the worst.

    I do like the mall but that's largely because I build supermarkets qiute early anyway and the +20% gold is good with a wall street city (especially with corps).
     
  12. Woreczko

    Woreczko Chieftain

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    Archers - you can spit them every second turn with a decent prod. city early on and with Drill 3 out of the gate they are likely to damage the top defender despite having abysmal odds of succeding. Count 3 for every single city defender for just 25 hammers each. Without Totem Pole they are sh1t, with it you always have a way to breakout. The same for longbows. Catapults are mandatory most of the time, but when they aren`t?

    Hammam is 2 happy, 2 health for 100 hammers. Garden is 1 happy (2 if 20% culture), 2 health for 80 hammers. Worse, but not so much.
     
  13. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    You don't get my remark about the Hammam and the Garden it seems. It does not matter what the entire bonus is, the step-up from the original building counts.
    Spoiler :
    Assuming this thread is about how good the UB's are in comparison with the original building, and not on themselves. A levee which gives 3 extra base hammers is a poor UB, but a good building.

    You could say 'The apothecary rocks, it gives you an entire +25%:gold:!'. Doesn't matter, so does the grocer. It's the 2 health which counts.
    If I would build an aquaduct (Hammam) and a colloseum as the Ottomans, I would get +3:) and +2:health:. If I would build an aquaduct and a colloseum (garden) as the Babylonians, I would get +1 :) and +4 :health: I prefer the former.

    Good luck with your archer spamming. Throwing in lots of units is going to do three things. One : your opponent will get more Great generals, giving him more experienced troops and making it thus even harder to kill him. Two : if he decides to attack you instead of hiding in his city, he'll easily win all battles ( or eventually kill the stack defenders, if you brought them, and then easily kill all battles ) , withdraw, heal, and repeat. A drill 3 archer has absolutely no chance against a horse archers. 3 : It's going to increase war weariness and decrease war success. Although those two are of lesser importance in the ancient era.

    I still prefer 5 Cr axes over 7 Drill 3 archers. The latter are indeed more likely to do damage, but will still lose against damaged defenders, after all.
     
  14. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    I have noticed that once factories start coming in, I generally have enough happy, but run out of health.
     
  15. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Yep, that's completely true (with some exceptions with drafting, but people usually don't draft infantries). But by the time factories come along, I usually have won/lost/am in a clearly winning position already. Note that this is less true on higher levels, where the game is a constant struggle.
     
  16. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    roflmfao
     
  17. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    yes, that's true.

    I tend to play for space most of the time, so the unhealth is irritating - but it doesn't really effect the end of the game that much.
     
  18. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Deity

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    That's a good point. How long the game goes and the victory condition may alter someone's opinion. When going for space I don't mind the Research Institute - it's late but it gives a nice benefit and you want the base building anyway. If I'm going for conquest or domination the late UB's are complete junk. And if someone is going for AP cheese, the Egyptian UB is great. If you're not trying for AP, the Egypt UB is terrible.

    I actually kind of like the Baray. With the Industrial-Modern health problems an Aqueduct comes in handy and the +1 food is a nice bonus. The Assembly Plant is terrible - admittedly it replaces a building you want but the bonus is so slight.
     
  19. The_Reckoning

    The_Reckoning Prince

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    Churchill of Native America

    :D

    He loves those Totem Poles.

    But yeah, very situational.
     
  20. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    I'm kind of surprised the baray gets as little love as it does. an extra good means a cottage or a watermill instead of a farm, a mine instead of a windmill or 1/2 a specialist. In a science city, an extra cottage can turn into 15-20 science, which beats the output of the seowon hands down.

    Plus, it's available early.

    It's the only UB that affects food. It's very powerful
     

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