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Rat43 CCM - Every Knee Shall Bend

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Northern Pike, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

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    I'd say whoever has some time to play some turns...it can't take that much longer, in fact I think conquest and domination could achieved almost at the same time :)
     
  2. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    I've got some time. Not sure how many turns I can get in but will likely keep it until next weekend and hand-off (unless finishing is possible - not sure how far away that is) then.
     
  3. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    Fine with me. My time is limited until mid-April, due to work stuff.
     
  4. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Well I have started the first turn. It took 2-3 hours to move all the units. We captured Germany and a chunk of Arabia. I am also trying to replace towns with our own for expansions. Even the size 1 towns are unlikely to grow before the game is over. Land is at 63% now. If I can take 1% each turn we are talking 3 turns to the end.

    I will probably rush a large number of settlers. I am them to reach towns in one turn as well as replacing. It probably would have saved us a large sum of money if the the towns on wealth were on settlers instead, but since we have so much (76K I think) it won't really matter.
     
  5. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    I turned cities to wealth instead of settlers because we were at the city cap already. Besides, I was getting annoyed at how many cities were completing builds each turn!
     
  6. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Preturn: Cover an Exposed Tank with 2 hp left. Capitol is at 129 shields for 130 tank. Don't want to short rush every turn so I mine the last square. I do short rush 2 tanks with 123 shields.

    IBT:
    We lose a Tank near Bremen. Also a Infantry unit is attacked but we win. Random boat bombardment.

    1836 AD:
    Abandoned some cities on the home continent that could be taken out without shrinking our territory.
    Germany:
    Capture Augsburg without loss.
    Capture Efurt with no losses.
    Bremen goes badly - we lose 3 Tanks and kill no units with the units that were moved forward earlier. Build a new City to attack with more tanks. 6 more are needed before the city falls.
    Build another city and Garrison to reach Stuttgart and Dresden
    Stuttgart captured with one loss.
    Dresden captured with no losses.

    Declare war on Arabia:
    Capture Hiroshimo
    Abandon Stuttgart to build another city to reach El Mansura
    El Mansura captured with no losses.
    Capture Shiraz without losses.
    Capture Shimonoseki losing a hoppy. Then abandon it to build new city to reach Basra and Fustat.
    Capture Basra with the loss of 3 Hotchkiss
    Capture Fustat with the loss of a Tank.
    Capture Nagoya with the loss of a Hotchkiss.
    Another new town is needed and we can Capture Najran. We lose 3 units despite the Garrison.


    IBT: We finish International Telephone.

    1837 AD:
    vs Arabia
    Capture Mecca getting world Religion Islam losing 1 tank
    Build some towns closer to the enemy.
    Capture Medina. Capture Kufa losing 3 tanks. Capture Baghdad losing 1 Tank. Capture Damascus losing a Tank. Abandon Narjan so I can build a city to get to Muskat which I capture with the loss of another Tank.
    This handles the main peninsula. I check and there are 10 cities left including 2 farther away. I capture the one on our own continent using the tanks we built this turn. Bukhara is on the island we own 2 cities on so I rush 2 Hotchkiss (we can't build tanks). Also build airfield and send a settler and 3 Hotchkiss to try to take the city out next turn.



    Capture Aden and Jaww Al-Yamamah which I already built a city towards with loss of a Tank.
    Hotchkiss can reach the new Capitol Nishapur, so I use them to attack it. We do well on our attacks and retreats and only use 1 Hotchkiss. Anjar is similar but has a Garrison we can't reach. We also don't retreat as well and lose 4 Hotchkiss taking that city.
    Need to abandona another city to reach Ica. There is a stack of artillery, so I use our Lawyers and non-injured priest but we don't gain any. We only have 3 Lawyers left unfortunately.
    Even though Ica is small and we have a Garrison and they don't we still lose a Tank taking the city.
    Abandon more cities on home continent that are close together (to avoid shrinking border) to gain 3 more city slots. This allows me to attack Ghuquiapo and Arequipa. Finally, Andahuaylas has only one border expansion so we are able to take it without a new city.

    One of these last 3 cities pushes over 66%, but a flip would mean one more turn so I think I will go for some extra cities which means Vikings or the lone Incan city.

    Vikings:
    Forgot to note the first town I captured. It was minor with no losses.

    Norrkoping wasn't given a chance to have the units get out of the town and there are a huge number. I lost 8-10 units before taking it, and a stack of 57 units that attacked the city. It looks like the Vikings have not fought a war. There are other large stacks.

    Used the monks I found lying around for the occasion.

    At the end of the turn we win with 68% of land.

    Note: The last turn was quite long so I made a few more moves to lessen the attacks (our stack of 57 units was attacked a lot for example) and then made a final save of the last turn. Also a quick scan of 1 turn items to airports and such.

    So save is last turn before win with shortened IBT

     
  7. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Good game guys.

    I ended not needing those settlers. They were for replacing towns with ones that could grow, but we easily got over 66% in one turn. Used even injured troops since we didn't need them anymore - especially on the annoying Viking town which had many ancient cavalry and knights.

    Abandoning towns in our own territory that didn't shrink our border but allowed us to build more also helped the percentage get up there.
     
  8. darski

    darski Regent in Training

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    Congratulations guys... great game!

    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    So... what are we doing next? *ducks and runs*
     
  9. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    Congrats - that was a crazy game. Starts to make me want to up Civ3 and my world map.
     
  10. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    Congratulations! :clap:

    Reading your comments about moving time and AI-turn-time in the last phases of the game, it seems that in the final phase there were too many units on the map. I have to reflect how to reduce them (may be massively rising the costs for unit support) and it also seems that there is no real additional need for normally produced settlers (even "combat settlers").

    Another point is to reflect about the combination railroads/early armored MV3-cars (here the hotchkis). It seems, this combination is the "game-winner" for the human player.
     
  11. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    If you want to up the maint for troops, you need to give back armies. Remember these SG's are played in a style that is not the norm.

    The human needs a way to offset the lower kill ratio. In C3C that was armies, in CCM it is numbers. In C3C you could even use cannon types to increase kill ratios.

    Without rails one cuold not reasonably play on very large maps as you would run out of turns. The lack of armies raises it head again. The 4 speed armies is the answer to no rails in C3C.
     
  12. Butterball

    Butterball Bear

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    :Lurker: Great game. Thanks
     
  13. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

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    congrats everyone! :D

    I have to say that the latter part of the game has always been tedious, but that's to be expected on such a map and I do fully agree with vmxa's analysis. Do not nerf hotchkisses and rails, else the game becomes pure tedium.
     
  14. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    I think that for the next game we will select a nation to play and Civinator will tweak the .biq file so that only our nation will have the auto-produced settlers. The AI will not be limited in their ability to build settlers.

    We will get settlers every 20 turns, the AI can build them at will. We won't be able to do that until we learn Atomic Theory in the Industial Age.

    In the current .biq when we fight in the early game, we are fighting similar sized empires. We conquer a nation, make it ours, repeat a couple of times and we soon grow to be the biggest civ. In this special .biq we will face larger AIs from the get-go.

    As I write this I wonder...if we started with three settlers instead of two and got no auto-produced settlers while the AI could build them at will in addition to their normal two settlers at the start of the game...is that a fair fight? :eek:
     
  15. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    Long IBT are a nuisance, yes, but that is true in C3C too. Higher costs will only disadvantage the AI. And settlers are always welcome, especially when they are limited earlier.
    No, not quite. Like Cavalry in C3C, it makes the game more fluid and faster. Both Cavalry and Hotchkisses are the first 3 Move units available and that allows for deeper attacks into enemy territory from the border. They do make conquering an AI faster and easier, but by the time they show up the outcome game is already decided. That is true in both CCM and C3C.

    Empire management is still the real game-winner.
     
  16. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    I think the large number of units is due mostly to the size of the map. All large games with 31 civs will have very long turns. I think there are some things that make it longer.

    1) The fact that settlers can move 2 spaces is huge. You can step into enemy territory and build cities as close as you need to. This allows speed 2 units to all reach a city and be used in the attack given enough settlers and workers for rails.

    2) Towns have more shields due to the many shield boosters, but unit costs aren't really that much higher. Maybe tanks should cost 200+ shields (even the early ones) . It is hard to get towns that can build one turn tanks in C3C, but we had a lot that could (especially with all the money so we could short rush) Also there are more productive towns because of reduced corruption. The higher end units that come after the shield buildings at the start of the industrial should cost more.

    Note that the large map size also means you need more workers to get your cities up and running.

    Note also that AG3 with an even larger map took much longer than this - around 700 hours - which shows you how much map size matters (it even broke the clock with a reported negative time).
     
  17. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Actually, it occurred to me the settlers may speed the game because you don't spend turns just moving up to a city. It makes turns longer but the game shorter.

    Its still a big bonus for attack. I use combat settling extensively in this variant.
     
  18. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    The bottom lines is experienced players are going to win, if no variant rules are used. Turns are going to be quite long on maps that are in the 250x250 range, with 31 civs. No matter how you play them.

    Anyone not up for the long turns, should skip CCM and massive maps on C3C. I do not understand why players that find std huge C3C maps with 16 civs as too long, would ever think CCM is for them.
     
  19. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    True.

    Also if you go for a space victory you don't have to use huge armies and kill everyone if you don't want which is faster turns. Those people might be more satisfied with very expensive commerce and science gaining buildings to sink shields into. Buildings that cost 600-1000 shields that gave an additional 25% science might be more up their alley. One thing that leads to domination is that you don't have anything to spend shields on except units (or wealth which is dull) and once you have the units you tend to use them.
     
  20. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Do you want to try a game where the AI builds settlers? We would need to pick a civ.

    I think we should wait for NP to return to start which would be March 15 or later.
     

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