Northern Pike
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Some great exchanges there. 
Ideally Joshua would rush Siege Workshop.
Ideally Joshua would rush Siege Workshop.
Rat45 CCM - Gideon's Band
- Thread starter Northern Pike
- Start date
Northern Pike
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View attachment 336935, end of turn
Northern Pike
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225 (0): We need to make a careful decision about how we're going to pick up the last three Ancient techs and advance into the Age of Discovery. We can afford Religion now, and we can trade it for Feudalism after the purchase, but we can't get back any meaningful gold on the deal. So after that twofer, we'd be so tapped out that we probably couldn't afford Chivalry until we got our gpt back in twenty turns, and we'd also face a nasty period of about eight turns in which we'd have heavy gpt payments with our GA ended. OTOH, if we just make a cheap onefer purchase of Feudalism now and finish our fifty-turn run to Religion in fourteen turns, we'll have enough gold then to buy Chivalry immediately. My conclusion, then, is that we'll save six turns in the end by the patient policy.
Thus, we simply send silks and 989 gold to India for Feudalism.
A weeping apprentice is dragged to his first day of work by his mother, in Samaria.
Gibeah slavery --> temple.
The Egyptians complete Dome of the Rock, so it's a good thing we built Solomon's Temple and JWR in plenty of time. Alexandria now becomes a reasonably close city we're entitled to keep, too.
We send the Canadians Seafaring to renew our supply of spices. What is a Canadian spice--ground beaver tails?
250 (1): We lose a spearman to invisible attack outside Jericho (0-1).
Hebron granary --> theatre.
The Indians and Carthaginians are building Philosopher's Stone, so they're in the next Age and have Alchemy.
275 (2): We enslave a British catapult outside Jericho (1-1).
We finally pay a price for our highly useful happiness war with Japan, as Japanese castle ships appear and sink our gallant Ark of the Covenant. It takes one of them down with it (2-2).
Samaria ROYAL GARRISON --> theatre, Kadesh castle --> pikeman, Bethlehem National Symbol --> granary (immediately rushed by Moses).
Thus, we simply send silks and 989 gold to India for Feudalism.
A weeping apprentice is dragged to his first day of work by his mother, in Samaria.
Gibeah slavery --> temple.
The Egyptians complete Dome of the Rock, so it's a good thing we built Solomon's Temple and JWR in plenty of time. Alexandria now becomes a reasonably close city we're entitled to keep, too.
We send the Canadians Seafaring to renew our supply of spices. What is a Canadian spice--ground beaver tails?
250 (1): We lose a spearman to invisible attack outside Jericho (0-1).
Hebron granary --> theatre.
The Indians and Carthaginians are building Philosopher's Stone, so they're in the next Age and have Alchemy.
275 (2): We enslave a British catapult outside Jericho (1-1).
We finally pay a price for our highly useful happiness war with Japan, as Japanese castle ships appear and sink our gallant Ark of the Covenant. It takes one of them down with it (2-2).
Samaria ROYAL GARRISON --> theatre, Kadesh castle --> pikeman, Bethlehem National Symbol --> granary (immediately rushed by Moses).
Northern Pike
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Solomon's Temple produces our second prophet, Deborah. The first seems to be dead. LK, you weren't warned about this so no criticism meant, but holy men are rare and precious and should only attack defense-one enemies on open ground.
300 (3): One of our elite slavers narrowly prevails over a British chariot, but doesn't claim a slave (3-2).
We blunder into and slay an invisible unit outside Jericho (4-2).
Bethlehem granary --> slavery.
325 (4): Hebron theatre --> ancient cav, Gibeah temple --> castle, Jericho slavery --> castle.
350 (5): Our new prophet captures a British scout.
We wreck an Austrian catapult with a slaver but don't take a slave (5-2).
Samaria theatre --> AC.
375 (6): We build an ivory colony outside Jericho. The main idea here is to get some value by trading the ivory, but I decide not to do this until we've fought the next Austrian war, since the road from the colony to our capital may be little exposed in that struggle. So we may build a Jumbo or two where it's not inefficient during our GA.
The Egyptians establish an embassy with us.
400 (7): A raiding force of two slavers covered by two AC, which we've sent into the desert SE of Jericho, finds a target-rich environment:
300 (3): One of our elite slavers narrowly prevails over a British chariot, but doesn't claim a slave (3-2).
We blunder into and slay an invisible unit outside Jericho (4-2).
Bethlehem granary --> slavery.
325 (4): Hebron theatre --> ancient cav, Gibeah temple --> castle, Jericho slavery --> castle.
350 (5): Our new prophet captures a British scout.
We wreck an Austrian catapult with a slaver but don't take a slave (5-2).
Samaria theatre --> AC.
375 (6): We build an ivory colony outside Jericho. The main idea here is to get some value by trading the ivory, but I decide not to do this until we've fought the next Austrian war, since the road from the colony to our capital may be little exposed in that struggle. So we may build a Jumbo or two where it's not inefficient during our GA.
The Egyptians establish an embassy with us.
400 (7): A raiding force of two slavers covered by two AC, which we've sent into the desert SE of Jericho, finds a target-rich environment:
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We gain no slaves as such, but a captured British worker and an honest-to-YHWH native worker. The latter occurs when we capture a slave that was originally one of our units; it retains its Hebrew nationality.
We gain a slave when we upend an Austrian chariot west of Kadesh (6-2).
Gibeah castle --> theatre, Jericho castle --> aqueduct.
425 (8): We enslave another chariot--this one British, east of Jericho (7-2).
Royal Garrison in Samaria produces our first mediaeval inf.
450 (9): Not much. British units block our road to Jericho where it passes through neutral territory.
475 (10): Our new prophet makes her first real attack, on a British catapult, and promotes to elite, but doesn't gain a monk (8-2).
Eight slaver victories this round produced three slaves.
One holy-woman victory this round didn't yield a monk.
Three elite victories this round didn't generate a Great Leader.
We gain a slave when we upend an Austrian chariot west of Kadesh (6-2).
Gibeah castle --> theatre, Jericho castle --> aqueduct.
425 (8): We enslave another chariot--this one British, east of Jericho (7-2).
Royal Garrison in Samaria produces our first mediaeval inf.
450 (9): Not much. British units block our road to Jericho where it passes through neutral territory.
475 (10): Our new prophet makes her first real attack, on a British catapult, and promotes to elite, but doesn't gain a monk (8-2).
Eight slaver victories this round produced three slaves.
One holy-woman victory this round didn't yield a monk.
Three elite victories this round didn't generate a Great Leader.
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The next step:
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In four turns we'll finish min-researching Religion, and our carefully hoarded gold should be sufficient to buy us Chivalry. Then a lot will depend on whether our free Age of Discovery tech as a scientific civ has trade value.
If we need more gold for trade purposes, our ivory has considerable value to the Indians (590 gold offered), though I've preferred not to trade it away before the second Austrian war so that we don't have to worry about the road, as mentioned.
IMPORTANT: After playing I noticed that we've got, um, peculiar deals going with Carthage and Portugal--sending them silks for 1 gpt in each case. I was going to cancel the deals, but on reflection it's safer not to do this until we have Religion/Chivalry/our free tech in four turns and will be dealing again, so that the silks can't be demanded away in the interim. So of course, the next player must remember to free up these assets when the time comes. (Or, a further nuance: it would be fine to cancel one deal now, since that silks source would count as our domestic one and not be subject to demands, but the other shouldn't be cancelled for four turns.)
We also have a silks-for-wines deal with the primitive Nubians, which we should replace by giving them a tech for wines when it reaches its limit in eight turns.
We're about to receive our next settler. It'll need about seven turns to move to Jericho, and then we can attack Austria with the goal of razing Prague and founding our new city either right on the ruins or one tile to the NE (1 on the screenshot). We're still weak relative to Austria, and a war to the death in our usual style might be difficult, but gaining this single objective and making peace should be easy.
I've upgraded almost nothing, saving every penny in case Chivalry proves unexpectedly expensive. Once we've finished buying and trading the next player can upgrade considerably in Jericho if he wants.
We have two pikemen heading along the road to Gibeah, which needs some reinforcement before we attack Austria again.
Bear in mind that desert costs slavers 2 MP, so we have to be careful that our slavers south of Jericho aren't left behind by their AC escort.
We have a captured scout SW of Vienna, which may be able to clear some fog inside Austria before it's lost.
My worker emphases this round were Jerusalem and Hebron, where we roaded a lot of unroaded (but worked) tiles and did some irrigating. If the next player wants a large-scale project, getting faster growth in Samaria and Kadesh with irrigation is still more important than mining.
We're working on some marginally useful town centres, just because we'd choke on unit costs if we built military everywhere.
Kadesh is at zero food surplus to complete its town centre while our GA lasts, but it shouldn't be left there.
Wet Fleece of Gideon in the northeast is finally in position to make a safe hop to the unexplored Canadian coast, though the likelihood is that Canada is an isolated island.
A longer-term consideration, but we can start thinking about it: I suspect that to stay alive in tech in the new Age we'll have to attack the Indians and take their 24K of gold.
If we need more gold for trade purposes, our ivory has considerable value to the Indians (590 gold offered), though I've preferred not to trade it away before the second Austrian war so that we don't have to worry about the road, as mentioned.
IMPORTANT: After playing I noticed that we've got, um, peculiar deals going with Carthage and Portugal--sending them silks for 1 gpt in each case. I was going to cancel the deals, but on reflection it's safer not to do this until we have Religion/Chivalry/our free tech in four turns and will be dealing again, so that the silks can't be demanded away in the interim. So of course, the next player must remember to free up these assets when the time comes. (Or, a further nuance: it would be fine to cancel one deal now, since that silks source would count as our domestic one and not be subject to demands, but the other shouldn't be cancelled for four turns.)
We also have a silks-for-wines deal with the primitive Nubians, which we should replace by giving them a tech for wines when it reaches its limit in eight turns.
We're about to receive our next settler. It'll need about seven turns to move to Jericho, and then we can attack Austria with the goal of razing Prague and founding our new city either right on the ruins or one tile to the NE (1 on the screenshot). We're still weak relative to Austria, and a war to the death in our usual style might be difficult, but gaining this single objective and making peace should be easy.
I've upgraded almost nothing, saving every penny in case Chivalry proves unexpectedly expensive. Once we've finished buying and trading the next player can upgrade considerably in Jericho if he wants.
We have two pikemen heading along the road to Gibeah, which needs some reinforcement before we attack Austria again.
Bear in mind that desert costs slavers 2 MP, so we have to be careful that our slavers south of Jericho aren't left behind by their AC escort.
We have a captured scout SW of Vienna, which may be able to clear some fog inside Austria before it's lost.
My worker emphases this round were Jerusalem and Hebron, where we roaded a lot of unroaded (but worked) tiles and did some irrigating. If the next player wants a large-scale project, getting faster growth in Samaria and Kadesh with irrigation is still more important than mining.
We're working on some marginally useful town centres, just because we'd choke on unit costs if we built military everywhere.
Kadesh is at zero food surplus to complete its town centre while our GA lasts, but it shouldn't be left there.
Wet Fleece of Gideon in the northeast is finally in position to make a safe hop to the unexplored Canadian coast, though the likelihood is that Canada is an isolated island.
A longer-term consideration, but we can start thinking about it: I suspect that to stay alive in tech in the new Age we'll have to attack the Indians and take their 24K of gold.
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Northern Pike (just played)
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Weird - I don't even recall seeing such a unit...
ThERat
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Excellent analysis NP. Superb strategy to gain us the required techs.
Once we enter the Middle Ages, trading should get better again. It's always the fast few techs in the AA that are so tough to get.
Once we enter the Middle Ages, trading should get better again. It's always the fast few techs in the AA that are so tough to get.
Northern Pike
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I'm just going by math--Solomon's Temple is supposed to produce a prophet every eight turns, putting the first in your round and the second in mine. Perhaps it was the unit you report losing to a British slaver? Anyway, you probably didn't lose it attacking--you'd remember that.
I am back and I got it.
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Hopefully I can pass something to you soon in LK147 - the turns are getting LONG already.
Preturn: Looks good
IBT: Hagia Sophia completed by America.
500 AD: Enslaver attacks a Chariot. We win but no slave.
Start exploring Canadian isle.
IBT: Philosophers stone completed by India.
525 AD: Building Elephants as they are the the best in terms of unit costs.
550 AD: Not finding units to attack with our Enslavers...
IBT: Our golden age ends one city (Gibeah) Riots.
575 AD: We get Religion. With silks we can buy Chivalry for 2155 from Britain leaving us 44 gold. We are at -1 gpt now our GA ended.
I first sell Monarchy and Chivalry to get what we can for cash (including 15 gpt from Netherlands)
We got Theology which some but not all civs have. We can barely buy Alchemy for Theology our second silks, 10 gpt, and 149 gold (leaving us 21 gold) from Carthage.
This allows us to buy Navigation and 1181 gold for Theology and Alchemy from Britain.
I can then trade Theology and Alchemy for Engineering 1 gpt and 12 gold from Egypt.
Only other deal worth doing is to give Theology for 17 gpt and 128 gold to Portugal
-----------------
India has Gunpowder and Renaissance, Poland has Renaissance.
We have the same techs as Egypt, Carthage, and Britain. Britain still has 999 gold
Nubia, Italy, Japan, and the Mongols are still Ancient Empires.
For the rest we are ahead by one or more of our 4 age of discovery techs.
Raised the Lux to 30% and disbanded 4 older units
We ended up with 1333 gold and 12 gpt.
For tech I started 50 turns for Sacred Art.
Building Windmills and Synagogs.
600 AD: Kill a Chariot guarding a Settler and gain a slave (so a worker from Settler and Slave gained)
Also got the following:
I will hurry a market in Jerico with it.
IBT: Exploring Ancient Cav is killed by an invisible unit.
625 AD: Market rushed. Kill 2 Cats - no slaves.
650 AD: Ok, I am starting the war we mentioned with Austria-Hungary
IBT: Some movement by AH.
675 AD: Prague is razed. Kill several units without loss. Gain another Slave. Gained a Leader that rushed Jerico's Windmill.
IBT: Our Cavalry that razed Prague retreats to an attack. Archer attacks Pike and loses. Main AH forces are near where Prague was.
700 AD: Kill about 5 Spear from the AH attackers and then retreat a square to stop attacks.
IBT: AH advance again
725 AD: Retreating is becoming harder, so I am going to hold my ground. Lose a Catapult but kill a big stack excepting a Catapult.
Also some other stacks where I lose a Catapult and Enslaver while attacking an Archer.
There are some other enemies, but I ran out of attackers. They have 4-5 attacks vs our Spear and Pike.
Sell older techs for gold
Notes:
With this turns kills we are now Average vs AH.
AH have a few fast units, but not many. For slow units, sword and Spear are the best so far.
Renaissance and Gunpowder are still the only tech I see above us by the Poland and India.
India is up to nearly 30k in gold.
IBT: Hagia Sophia completed by America.
500 AD: Enslaver attacks a Chariot. We win but no slave.
Start exploring Canadian isle.
IBT: Philosophers stone completed by India.
525 AD: Building Elephants as they are the the best in terms of unit costs.
550 AD: Not finding units to attack with our Enslavers...
IBT: Our golden age ends one city (Gibeah) Riots.
575 AD: We get Religion. With silks we can buy Chivalry for 2155 from Britain leaving us 44 gold. We are at -1 gpt now our GA ended.
I first sell Monarchy and Chivalry to get what we can for cash (including 15 gpt from Netherlands)
We got Theology which some but not all civs have. We can barely buy Alchemy for Theology our second silks, 10 gpt, and 149 gold (leaving us 21 gold) from Carthage.
This allows us to buy Navigation and 1181 gold for Theology and Alchemy from Britain.
I can then trade Theology and Alchemy for Engineering 1 gpt and 12 gold from Egypt.
Only other deal worth doing is to give Theology for 17 gpt and 128 gold to Portugal
-----------------
India has Gunpowder and Renaissance, Poland has Renaissance.
We have the same techs as Egypt, Carthage, and Britain. Britain still has 999 gold
Nubia, Italy, Japan, and the Mongols are still Ancient Empires.
For the rest we are ahead by one or more of our 4 age of discovery techs.
Raised the Lux to 30% and disbanded 4 older units
We ended up with 1333 gold and 12 gpt.
For tech I started 50 turns for Sacred Art.
Building Windmills and Synagogs.
600 AD: Kill a Chariot guarding a Settler and gain a slave (so a worker from Settler and Slave gained)
Also got the following:
I will hurry a market in Jerico with it.
IBT: Exploring Ancient Cav is killed by an invisible unit.
625 AD: Market rushed. Kill 2 Cats - no slaves.
650 AD: Ok, I am starting the war we mentioned with Austria-Hungary
IBT: Some movement by AH.
675 AD: Prague is razed. Kill several units without loss. Gain another Slave. Gained a Leader that rushed Jerico's Windmill.
IBT: Our Cavalry that razed Prague retreats to an attack. Archer attacks Pike and loses. Main AH forces are near where Prague was.
700 AD: Kill about 5 Spear from the AH attackers and then retreat a square to stop attacks.
IBT: AH advance again
725 AD: Retreating is becoming harder, so I am going to hold my ground. Lose a Catapult but kill a big stack excepting a Catapult.
Also some other stacks where I lose a Catapult and Enslaver while attacking an Archer.
There are some other enemies, but I ran out of attackers. They have 4-5 attacks vs our Spear and Pike.
Sell older techs for gold
Notes:
With this turns kills we are now Average vs AH.
AH have a few fast units, but not many. For slow units, sword and Spear are the best so far.
Renaissance and Gunpowder are still the only tech I see above us by the Poland and India.
India is up to nearly 30k in gold.
Northern Pike
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We can't do better than to turn our free tech into the other three starting techs for the new Age--tremendous. 
We still have only the prophet received during my round. Greebley, do you recall getting and losing a prophet? If not, we'll have to conclude that Solomon's Temple isn't producing them at the rate promised in the Civilopedia (one every eight turns).
We still have only the prophet received during my round. Greebley, do you recall getting and losing a prophet? If not, we'll have to conclude that Solomon's Temple isn't producing them at the rate promised in the Civilopedia (one every eight turns).
ThERat
Deity
Incredible tech trading 
And good thing, you started the war, we need to burn some units in order not to drown in unit cost. This will be the issue this game for sure with such limited cities.
We will need to attack the rich civs in order to stay ahead in the tech department.
And good thing, you started the war, we need to burn some units in order not to drown in unit cost. This will be the issue this game for sure with such limited cities.
We will need to attack the rich civs in order to stay ahead in the tech department.
Northern Pike
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We can go from 6-1-3 to 7-0-3, gaining 17 gpt, and keep the 50-turn run going with a scientist in Gibeah.
Once the switch to 7-0-3 is made, there's a twofer in play, beginning with silks, elephants, 1220 gold, and 80 gpt to India for Renaissance. Then, with our last silks, 20 gpt, and a couple of hundred gold left to top up the deal, along with various ways in which we can squeeze out more gpt if necessary, Egypt should give us Gunpowder for Renaissance. This would leave us with limited trade options for twenty turns, and we'd have to be very careful about the road from the elephant colony to Jerusalem during the Austrian war. But banks (available with Renaissance) are a vital build for us now, so I think it's the right idea.
So if we do this, Jerusalem at least should switch immediately to a bank build.
We need to found our new city on the ruins of Prague and make peace without delay, or the twenty-turn interval will delay our raze-and-replace of the next target, Vienna.
We should MM Gibeah so that the town isn't working jungle silks--it isn't worth the risk of disease.
The two slavers in our main stack NW of Jericho are subject to stealth attack by the archers in the adjacent Austrian stack, so the one slaver with movement left should get out of danger.
Once the switch to 7-0-3 is made, there's a twofer in play, beginning with silks, elephants, 1220 gold, and 80 gpt to India for Renaissance. Then, with our last silks, 20 gpt, and a couple of hundred gold left to top up the deal, along with various ways in which we can squeeze out more gpt if necessary, Egypt should give us Gunpowder for Renaissance. This would leave us with limited trade options for twenty turns, and we'd have to be very careful about the road from the elephant colony to Jerusalem during the Austrian war. But banks (available with Renaissance) are a vital build for us now, so I think it's the right idea.
So if we do this, Jerusalem at least should switch immediately to a bank build.
We need to found our new city on the ruins of Prague and make peace without delay, or the twenty-turn interval will delay our raze-and-replace of the next target, Vienna.
We should MM Gibeah so that the town isn't working jungle silks--it isn't worth the risk of disease.
The two slavers in our main stack NW of Jericho are subject to stealth attack by the archers in the adjacent Austrian stack, so the one slaver with movement left should get out of danger.
