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RB10 Elitist Hegemony -- slavers not workers.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Drasca, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. Drasca

    Drasca Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The Elitist Hegemony:--A worker theft challenge

    Variant Rules:
    No building workers.

    You are encouraged to poach lesser (other) civilizations' workers, directly, by capturing settlers, or by taking large cities.

    Optional:
    No switching to emancipation until Capital has reached 1/3 its population in 'we demand emancipation' unhappiness.

    You do not give into to demands for tribute or change of religion. Feel free to tell other Civs to 'shove it'.

    Map script:
    Archipelago, Small size, low seas, Standard # of Random Civs (4 or 5 rivals), Prince difficulty

    Roster:
    Liq
    Silver
    Veoviolin
    james, of team rocket
    Zeviz
    drasca
    Liq

    Update with blatant copy and paste from Liq's roster update.
     
  2. Merzbow

    Merzbow Disrecognized Space

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    450
    Good luck. I see two ways of poaching workers - grab them while they are working on their city borders, or stealing settler pairs.
     
  3. Drasca

    Drasca Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I expect my head to be taken for taking a RB slot number, but Sirian and Sullla will have to catch me first... and get past the other players I reinforce.


    First things first. We're spain. We get free mysticism, free fishing, and a fantastic UU. Double speed granaries encourage whips, while double speed temples encourage large cities. These are usually mutually exclusive paths, but we have options to go both ways. Once we're done whipping, we can let those high food cities grow into high production / high commerce cities via our temples. This is also an archipelago map. Sea power dictates victory. Scout the map for circumnavigation asap.



    Here is our start. It is fairly good because we have extra resources and coastal access from the get-go. By looking at fog edge, confirmed by presence of fresh water, we have a lake nearby. That's a very good thing (tm) for Spain, as we have the option to go for hydra power. Dye resource enhanced grassland gives one commerce.

    I settled immedately, and started working the dye commerce enhanced grassland and begun work on a workboat. I kid not when I say sea power dominates, and I prioritize sea exploration, as our current island is likely going to be all too small soon. When the cultural border expanded, the freshwater lake becomes worked.

    Standard Hydra research start. Meditation-->Poly. Pitstop to sailing however. Since we don't have workers for a while, we'll need all the extra resources we can get, and galleys plus ocean trading is extremely useful on this water map. Ocean trading will spread our religions, albeit slowly until we have a holy shrine.

    Liq, Zev, be ready to make a grab a great prophet point wonder, either stonehenge or oracle. We'll want to spawn a GP to holy shrine our chosen state religion, so it spreads to other lands. If we do get the oracle, don't delay it waiting for a better tech, just grab whatever you feel is best. I think Iron working would be the most likely choice at that point.

    Not much happens for a while until... I see Tokugawa warrior coming from the eastern jungle. We're not alone. Then, two cross the lands, and retreat back east. That means this is a small island, and Tok is extremely nearby.

    You know what that means, warriors after the workboat explorer. Barracks might've been an option if we were aggressive with double speed barracks, or more room to build, but we need a minimum of 3 warriors immediately, since I spent some time building a workboat explorer.

    One warrior to the east, up Japanese borders and fortifies. He stays there. The rest go exploring our island and looking for sea resources. Workboat heads west, nothing of value for many turns.

    Micromanaged Madrid for high commerce. Eventually got sailing and headed back towards Organized religion. Grabbed all three religions via commerce focus.

    Far far far to the west is Elizabeth of England. She's financial, and likely needs to be conquered before she's too much trouble. She's somewhat near to stone too. That stone is not extremely close to Lizzy, but it is landbound to her, and likely out of our reasonable reach. Keep this competition in mind when building stone wonders.




    This is the first major decision point, at 2600 BC. I could either risk declaring war and trying to grab the worker next turn, or wait for another possibly non existent opportunity. Given this is Tokugawa, he's likely armed to the teeth even at this point, and that hill is within possible reach of one of Toku's military. That's too risky. To do worker theft like this, you need to be next to their worker at their cultural borders. I sometimes take risks like this, but this was too much, too early.

    1 workboat, 3 warriors total on my side, one warrior on the way from our Madrid, other comes back from exploration to garrison Madrid to make up for the warrior coming to us. I decide to wait while reinforcements come.

    Tokugawa makes a mistake. He made a settler to expand with, and escorts it with two warriors, with combat I, ignoring our fortified warrior in the jungle. It doesn't matter where he expands, it is close to us and we cannot take it with our pitiful force of 3 warriors total. However...

    Eventually, that worker decides to put a mine next to us. It is almost 2000 BC, and I've taken almost 40 turns, probably more than I should, but for this variant, the right type of theft is important. Guess what happened.



    Fortune favors the bold! Our unfortified warrior (other still fortified) manages to take the worker, and even survives an attack from Tokugawa's archer! I did not expect that. I thought he was a goner, sacrificed so we may gain the vital worker. He's a tough one. I decide not to move him on 2000 BC yet.

    Liq, you have a pivotal decision to make. To pillage and raid, or not. This is a unique opportunity to cripple Tokugawa, but you do not have long to make it. You may either take the gamble I propose, or take the safe route and bring the wounded warrior back to escort the prized worker home.

    The AI is almost guaranteed not to abandon the city of its last defender. He will likely have another unit soon, but you have enough time to pillage the mine, or the farm, or possibly both. If you are particularly daring, you could pillage it all, but I recommend prioritizing the farm.

    The current research path is heading towards archery. I've delayed it long enough with religion intensive and exploration intensive action. We need archers against Toku. If we're particularly unlucky, Tokugawa will have bronze or iron. Save game next reply.
     
  4. Drasca

    Drasca Chieftain

    Joined:
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    137
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    This is the save. Bah! I thought I didn't move that warrior. There's still time to go pillaging, but not much. With those mines and farm, Tokugawa will be able to have a second archer up soon, faster yet if it is a warrior. Pay close attention to where that warriorx2-settler pair goes. If it settles where it is, you'll need to escort the worker, if it settles farther out, pillage option is very likely.

    Update: Liq, Zev, take 10 turns each. We're on a 10 turn rotation now, because every turn matters at this point.

    1. Drasca (Played)
    2. Liq (UP)
    3. Zev (On deck)
    4. S.ilver
    5. ndthsmdy
     
  5. Zeviz

    Zeviz Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    322
    Is that mine on flat land? If it is, Tokugava has Bronze working and has copper connected. This also means that our warriors are useless, so we might as well get some use out of them by pillaging everything they can reach.

    With this military-heavy strategy I would have prioritized military techs over religions, but at least we are on our way to archers.
     
  6. niffweed17

    niffweed17 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Ahí en la ciudad
    lurker comment-

    no building of workers?

    :shakehead:

    good luck.

    whatever you can get from the japanese is just gift wrapped; if you don't destroy them right now, they will soon have enough infrastructure to maul you, and if you do destroy them, you'll have no more workers to steal from them. if you let them sit and build units as slowly as you, you're never getting any workers.

    and as for getting any workers from other civs later: good luck surviving.

    i just don't know how you can possibly pull this off. at any rate, it will make for some interesting lurking.
     
  7. Griselda

    Griselda Realms Beyond

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Who is this newbie guy Drasca and why does he think he's a member of the RB community? :shakehead





    :joke:

    Good luck, guys!
     
  8. S.ilver

    S.ilver Chieftain

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    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    If you still have slots, I'd love to join in on this apparent head smashing quest (war already in the first turnset?).

    EDIT: Oh, and that's not copper, it's IRON. You may want to pillage that... like immediately. Otherwise major problems will arise. Toku doesn't appear to have any iron units yet anyways. Depending on how many turns it took Toku to get Ironworking... you may want to risk the pillage.
     
  9. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Chieftain

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    I'm guessing it's gems. Too early for Iron Working.
     
  10. ndthsmdy

    ndthsmdy Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I'll join, if you'll have me. Awesome variant.
     
  11. Mike Lemmer

    Mike Lemmer Chieftain

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    If it was iron, you wouldn't be able to see the resource because you don't have Iron Working researched. Those are gems.
     

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  12. MeteorPunch

    MeteorPunch #WINNING

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    Archipalego is a tough map for this variant but good luck anyways. :p
     
  13. Drasca

    Drasca Chieftain

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    Yeah, who is he, and how dare he! I mean, being on the original RBMoo SG on the CFC boards doesn't count. He even likes to make fun of sullla and sirian, and Cthulu-plush doll griselda. Plus, he must be unwisely crazy for suggesting we go without workers! The real question is, is that the right kind of crazy, or the wrong. Thanks gris.

    You don't have to. Sit back, and watch the magic happen.

    Sure thing. I'll add you to the roster. You're quite observant that it is gems too.

    That's my first thought as well. However, there's only two real military techs until you build a settler on top of a resource, and it has to be a coastal city with sailing enabled to trade it around. Archers are your only early options, but they're no better than warriors when it comes to worker-theft, and also more shield intensive than warriors. I almost lost a warrior, but 15 production is very worth having worker.

    Don't forget to consider the power of the hydra. With it, we may spy upon other civs and call upon religious diplomacy to our aid. Rival civs are also denied founding Holy cities, and thus almost automatically becomnig our enemies... for a while anyways. If we can establish a firm religious presence before then, we'll own this game.

    I considered doing noble difficulty for this game. Monarch is out of the question. However, we do have advantages, and I intend to press them. We'll sail, we'll explore, we'll use holy shrines for cash, we'll switch civics and religions like crack-monkeys. Isabella is one of the few who can take advantage of that, and I intend to encourage it and use it. Conquistadors are also an excellent UU that's just good all-around.

    Tokugawa looks nasty, but he's caught in a bind right now. His military is split and exhausted. If you can keep a warrior within pillage distance, he'll not likely be able to fight back. This is a flaw in the AI, and not the gameplay itself, and given how difficult this game is... I'll take it. AI flaws are what make humans superior. Besides that, we still have several other civs to worry about. This one flaw won't win this game for us.

    Sure thing. You'll be our fifth. Be sure to listen in on the strat discussion for every turn set. There is no guarantee for victory, but if we coordinate our efforts every turn set, I'll be very happy.
     
  14. Zeviz

    Zeviz Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Ah, so it were gems. That's a huge relief. I thought the game was over when I saw that mine on flat ground.

    I tried same map settings and variant rules at home last night and it went pretty well. Maybe it's because I got a very lucky start (3 seafood resources and several forests around capital). What I did in that game was getting sailing, then beelining for iron working while using a galley to explore, then settling on top of iron and using a pair of swordsmen to steal my first worker together with a city. Then I proceeded to almost wipe out the Japanese, because they were still defending with archers. I am currently racing to Liberalism, but I overexpanded, so upkeep is killing me. (Should probably whip courthouses everywhere.) This strategy (minus the overexpantion bit) might also work in this game, if we want to go in the aggressive direction. Or was your plan something completely different?

    PS Now that we have a worker I guess we should research a couple worker techs before going on to IW.
     
  15. Drasca

    Drasca Chieftain

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    I'm glad your Iron gamble worked out for you! If this were a land map, I'd bee line towards a metal tech too, but this is sea, and sea requires a lot of sailing and religious theft is usually comparatively stronger. Both IW and Settlers take a lot of turns to take advantage of, and with very little in the way of production improvements... That can get painful

    The key techs right now are archery, priesthood, mining, BW and IW. We can do without the rest of the worker techs right now, as we have very little to actually improve. If we want the Oracle, we'd better grab it AFTER we have military. We can defend our city with little more than warriors for now with the cultural bonus, but we'll need to make active raids on Toku. We also need mining after archery, as we have gems of our own to take advantage of. The rest of them are of questionable value, as I expect tokugawa to start raiding our area soon. Luckily for us, if we have nothing for him to pillage, he'll just be wasting his time.

    While there, please use work our city manually, as the city governer is not suited well for our task right now.

    Also important is getting another workboat up and exploring east. I'd like to see what's behind Tokugawa and make sure he cannot take advantage of it.
     
  16. Drasca

    Drasca Chieftain

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    Yes another post.

    A lot will depend on the next 20 turns. Pillaging, blockading, military, research, workboat exploration. Every turn will be utterly crucial! I will be happy if we survive a full 5 rounds, because I intentionally chose very difficult variant and possibly :smoke: tech path.

    If not, we'll return on another map for revenge!
     
  17. Liquidated

    Liquidated Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!

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    hehe liq was distracted! got it will post turn in a bit gonna study this thread first.

    got it.

    Cheers!
    -Liq
     
  18. Liquidated

    Liquidated Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!

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    ok well have sevlo pedia and blue marble and not letting me load from the anti cheat toggle... let me uninstall blue marble first..

    ok that's not it... lets see lol...

    cleared out the sevlo and still nothing.

    ok not sure what's going on, will uninstall/install a new version of civ. be a bit. sometimes the patcher is slow.

    what exatcly is geeking the save game protection? anyone know? *waiting on patch*


    hehe ok gtg want my salmon color ui back!

    Cheers!
    -Liq
     
  19. BeefontheBone

    BeefontheBone Windbag of the sea

    Joined:
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    Non-NTFS filesystems on the disk where Civ 4 is installed. If it's on a FAT partition the anti-cheat measure is broken. It'll be fixed next patch. In the meantime, best bet is either another install on an NTFS partition if you've got one, or restarting the game without that option checked I'm afraid.
     
  20. Liquidated

    Liquidated Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!

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    preturn
    Ah the hydra... sweet. I agree completely that enough time was stalled on archery so that will be my path.

    Keeping Decrepit Darius Drake (warrior) fortified where he is, serves as an anchor for our Cabin Boy (worker) should those warriors double back

    ok I see the our raider Black Beard (warrior) has a promotion to help him heal,I'll nab that by choosing combat 1. go from .3 hp to 1.2

    I favor pillage and plan on getting an archer for defense posthaste. IMO kick toku if he's dumb enough to spend all this time on a settler. Goal is to kill off that mine and corn. No excuses matey!

    9 turns on archery 10 on barracks... good deal.. I'll keep work on the forest for faster growth in 5 so barracks and archery will fall same turn.

    lets see where that settler goes..

    [1]2000 BC


    Toku plops osaka down north of Port Madrid means it's safe to sneak back Cabin Boy un escorted as I'll have fair warning if a warrior comes after me.


    farm is target.

    Cabin Boy, the worker makes a sneak. Decrepit Darius Drake stays fortified.

    [2]1920 BC
    Hunting comes in archery auto follows in 6.

    osaka's warriors stay put so gtg on worker back home.

    Kyoto still has only one archer.

    destroy the mine on a gamble.

    [3]1880 BC
    Culture hits level 3 and we are squeezing osaka, taking away his valuable jungle hills =p

    Cabin Boy is safe!

    kyoto still only has one archer.

    [4]1840 BC
    Corn is pillaged! STILL only one archer in kyoto

    Cabin Boy has nothing to do! so he polishing Drownin' Norm Dawkins' boots over at port madrid.

    [5]1800 BC
    Still only one archer in kyoto so go for another mine.
    Madrid pops to size 6 and is at happy limit... work the 3 hammer hill to speed up the barracks.
    3 turns on archery and barracks now. good good.

    [6]1760 BC

    pillage the 2nd mine, when is another archer going to pop in kyoto...

    [7]1720 BC
    Kyoto pops an archer and keel hauls Black Beard. Black Beard dies after beating up the archer well enough... He pillaged 2 mines and the corn so not bad at all, that will delay the scurvey dog as he'll not dare get a worker on it in a long time. Well if he does, all the better! Har har Har!

    barracks in one turn.

    [8]1680 BC
    Archery comes in go for mining in 5... we do not need food any time soon unless we whip... need BW for that, which needs mining!

    I slow growth down by working the coast for the 2 commerce instead of the corn.

    go for an archer as we need the defense. 4 turns on that...

    btw we are up to 83 gold in the coffers.

    move cabin boy to the gems in anticipation.

    [9]1640 BC
    zzz

    [10]1600 BC
    nada

    turn recap
    Barracks DONE
    Archer in 2
    6/6 happy and growth in...24, gems will be worth mining soon so no danger of getting an unhappy.
    6/6 on health too, those 4 forests we have are giving us 2 red crosses so don;t make them walk the plank quite yet.

    Archery done , mining in 2, BW is queued next

    Liq gambled and imo won.
    pillaged the 2 mines and corn while keeping the other warrior in his area to prevent a worker. Imo that's a good thing, well worth sacrificing BlackBeard as those pillages cannot be repaired soon.

    Not only was the damage black beard caused major, we still Got cabin Boy, our worker, to Port Madrid. Cabin Boy is 100% safe and ready to mine them thar shiney rocks out back.


    Osaka settled to the north and promptly had 2 of it's jungles cut off due to culture. The two deck swabbers (warriors) there could have caused us problems but were pinned by toku's indecision.

    4 exp archer due in 2 turns...

    Good to see ya again ndy! got the pc working ok?


    ok some thoughts now that I got the save out.

    Toku is screwed lol. his worker was stolen (sweet grab dra) and 3/4th of his improvements are gone. well I'd have loved to take the roads too but there was more important things!

    Toku is in a bad situation, osaka is more boat anchor than asset to him as it's dragging his economy down.

    imo start on the explorer workboat I so greviously delayed and send it east for the early circum.


    If you have issues loading the save, take all the folders from mygames/civ4 and either delete them or just stash them out of harms way. civ regenerates the file structure inside the main civ4 document folder.


    Cheers!
    -Liq
     

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