RB24 - Big Brother

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Kylearan, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. Atlas

    Atlas Titanus

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    Should not be a problem, Louis' culture is plugging in the gaps big time, plus there has been a good amout of razing going on.


    This is a concern, for the time being I have just not been letting any resolutions at the UN come up for a vote, but we will vote on the Sec. Gen. again and we would not want that to be Louis. He would start doing things like eliminating our Police State bonus and other silly things.
     
  2. darrelljs

    darrelljs Immortal

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    Based on the number of views, I'm guessing you have dozens of lurkers :lol:

    Darrell
     
  3. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    That's a curious little statistic I've browsed every now and then -- the ratio of posts to views in SG threads. A typical low-difficulty game with little interest besides its own players runs a ratio of about 10 views per post. A semi-premier game like an LK or a good variant like "Alg Ore" gets about 15 to 20 views per post. The marquee games like most of the RB events or the training days run at 30 to 50. And the all-time classics like Cuban Isolationists or Scouting Sid (Civ 3) see well over 200 lurks per post.

    So yes, we've got quite a number of lurkers around. :scan: :)
     
  4. Kylearan

    Kylearan compound eye

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    I don't think Monty will vote for Louis anytime soon:



    Our family bonds are stronger. :love:

    On the first interturn:



    All right little bro', whatever you want... although don't expect me to do much in this war... Monty then captures Najran. In 1917AD, Baghdad and Damascus fall. Saladin retaliates by adopting Free Speech and Bureaucracy. Mecca falls in 1922AD.

    Monty wastes time by building West Point and the Manhattan Project, but at least his spaceship is more than half finished:



    For his birthday, Monty receives Fission. We will discover Genetics in 2 turns, which Monty should get as well. Most of our cities are producing research - we have enough bombers and tanks to defend ourselves, if need be.

    I don't expect this game to come back to me again. :)


    Roster:
    Kylearan
    Bede --> UP NOW
    T-hawk --> on deck
    theGrimm
    Atlas

    -Kylearan
     
  5. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    It's in the hopper.

    Progress is good!
     
  6. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    Not sure if you've got the right picture there -- if the question is Monty voting for Louis, we need to see Monty's attitude towards Louis, not Louis towards Monty? And also don't forget the hidden -4 penalty to the human for Aggressive AI when looking at our attitude.

    But that's just nitpicking, I'm sure we'll bring this one home. Looks likely to happen on my turn, depending on how efficiently Monty queues up the last couple components. :goodjob:
     
  7. Kylearan

    Kylearan compound eye

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    Hi,

    Yup, you're right of course. I got confused about this issue while playing, and took pictures of both - and uploaded the wrong one. :crazyeye: But the other one looks similar, and we already got reelected again during my turnset. (And yes, I *did* forget about the hidden -4 malus. Damn LCS!)

    -Kylearan
     
  8. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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  9. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    The Wind Beneath His Wings



    Since we had a front row seat for the destruction of Saladin the spies went back to Monteland to watch the space part construction. One of them wandered into Scotland Yard and got caught, so we now have a -1 hit for a "spy causing trouble", but the others set up a Methodist circuit ride and I finally discovered where Monte was building the Three Gorges Dam, the Space Elevator and the last two spaceship parts







    We happened to have two engineers sitting on their duffs just as I discovered the Space Elevator so I sent both of them over there with the intention of gifting them to him.

    The kid has attention deficit disorder issues! Even though the war was over and the Space Elevator would help far more in finishing his parts, he moved the first gift and used it to hurry the production of the Dam.

    Then I discovered that instead of gifting I could hurry the production directly, so I did!

    "Hey Bro, do it this way!". As it turns out it won't help as the the Elevator finishes after the most expensive part.







    There was a brief moment of concern in UN building when Monte became our opponent for SecGen, but Louis stepped up to the task and voted for Romulus instead of lil' Bro :bounce:. So threw him some bones in the form of an old Elvis 45 and removed his treasury by selling him Fascism.



    During the previous tenure as the SecGen I made sure this resolution passed



    as I didn't want Lil' Bro distracted by the potential of building WMD.

    Other UN business was pretty mundane, the only other acceptable resolutions being those which did violate any one's right to rule their subjects as they saw fit. No ballots in this world.

    And after the dust from the Arabian desert has settled Louis moved back into the second place population position as he built a couple of towns in the wastelands.

    My parting gift to the boy was Silk for his parachute should anything go wrong at launch. Meanwhile he could use it for pajamas.

    Only 12 years to launch!
     
  10. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    Great work. I see it and should be able to put it to rest tonight.
     
  11. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    So the limiting factor is Monty's SS Engine. Here's the city building it:



    It's got the fully-powered Ironworks and FIVE Engineers working on it, at 22 + 250% = 77 hammers/turn. Not too bad for an AI, I guess, though an optimized city like our own Arretium could do more than twice that. I think this city just lost a forest and a wheat to that French city; both tiles are only 50% French and Orleans is producing twice as much culture.

    So all I did was hit End Turn and sit on UN elections. One secretarial re-election happened, with us running against Louis again and winning with Monty's vote. I stopped research after Composites to save money for the remote chance of an emergency military upgrade. Alexander started completing a couple SS parts too. We Popped Another One, gems at Cumae. :lol:



    With two turns to go, Monty puzzles me with a switch to Theocracy and Vassalage? Just what does he think he's doing?? In diplomacy, he says "we have enough on our hands" on the war options, so he's planning something...



    But we'll never know, because here history ends. :goodjob:



    Space Race Victory for our beloved Little Brother Montezuma in 1953 AD. [party]



    6435 points for us. Game says we're equivalent to Louis, which is perfect! Both Louis and we stood by as Monty launched. :lol:

    The final save is attached. We have a Spy in Teotihuacan with enough money to sabotage production of that SS Engine, if anyone wants to take the challenge of winning a space victory ourselves from this point. :D

    Good work all! Thanks to Sirian for the original concept and for rejoining us for the reprise, and Kylearan for making it happen once again for Civ 4. :goodjob:
     
  12. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    And one bit of post-mortem, that I hope won't be too confusing.

    I played both of my last two turnsets with a modification to the histogram graphs, so that the Food graph is replaced with a fixed version of the GNP graph. See Here for a full explanation. In brief, the standard GNP graph only shows raw commerce minus expenses; it ignores many factors like multiplier buildings, specialists, and shrines. The fixed version of the GNP graph includes all that.

    Here's the original GNP graph:



    and here's the revised one, for clarity showing only the slices I played with the GNP fix:



    For once, the lying and fixed GNP screens were actually fairly close to one another. There's two notable differences. One is that before his demise, Saladin's economy was actually ahead of Monty's and surprisingly close to ours. I'm not quite sure why that would be -- did he have a lot of shrines?

    The other difference is that the original graph shows Monty's economy as dragging after his conquest of Saladin, while the real graph shows Monty ahead of Louis and Alexander in the end game. This is usual behavior for the buggy GNP graph for an expanding empire, especially in the late game. Conquering developed cities in the late game usually has a neutral or slightly negative effect on perceived GNP, since the added raw commerce is about the same as or slightly less than the added maintenance expenses. But this disregards the presence of multiplier buildings and specialists in the captured cities, which are both plentiful in the late game (especially with Biology and Statue.) So this explains how Monty was staying ahead even of us in tech. His economy was not lagging at all from that late-game conquest.

    Anyway, that's just more pontificating on my pet issue :)
     
  13. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    :goodjob:

    :thanx: Kylearan for putting it together. Interesting map, too, though I don't think I'll try it again :)
     
  14. Galileo44

    Galileo44 Great Scientist

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    From all the many lurkers, Thanks for a Great Game!!:goodjob::goodjob:
    This certainly desrves its title as the most view active SG at the time of its end as well as the 8th most viewed of all time.(All top 9 are also RB games:eek::eek::D) BRAVO!:king:
     
  15. theGrimm

    theGrimm Reaper Man

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    A doubt many people have the luck to play in such a great save game on their first time up! And what an esteemed team I had.

    Kylearan, T-Hawk, Bede, Atlas (and Syrian)...thanks for the great experience for my first ever SG!

    (Is someone going to play a few extra turns to see who Monty declares on?)
     
  16. Kylearan

    Kylearan compound eye

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    Hi,

    we've done it, yay! :goodjob: Thanks to the team for playing, and to all our lurkers for reading. I had a lot of fun, but like Bede I won't try it again anytime soon. ;)

    I liked the first half of the game a lot. The suspense of who will be our little brother and how to befriend him; the very odd and hard to defend shape of our empire before the Spanish war; some great write-ups (especially from theGrimm and Bede!) - all great stuff! It's also interesting to see just how much Monty benefitted from our kinship; he really was faaar ahead of everyone else in the world, and actually managed to wage a successful war on his own!

    The second half of the game was less interesting, albeit still good. Once we had Little Brother on friendly status and had conquered Spain, it had been more or less a foregone conclusion, with only the UN posing a light thread to the success of this game. Still fun to play, though!


    What I'm really disappointed about though was the effect of the aggressive AI setting. I hate the hidden -4 modifier, and I had really hoped for some more interesting conflicts happening, especially in the early game. Had I known how the option works, I wouldn't have used it for this game.

    Anyway, great game overall. :cool: Too bad Sirian couldn't be with us till the end.

    -Kylearan
     
  17. darrelljs

    darrelljs Immortal

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    Sounds like a volunteer ;). I am curious on this for some reason.

    Darrell
     
  18. Atlas

    Atlas Titanus

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    That was a fun game thank you Sirian for the concept and Ky for getting this game going- it was a lot of fun. Monty launching a spaceship :lol:, I doubt you see that in many games. I wonder do you think it would be more difficult to get an AI to a domination victory than it was to get Monty into Space ;) ?

    Fantasy Realm Map- hmmm, probably my least favorite map script (but I did not know that before the game so learned something new there :)) the distance maitence is killer and I will never get used to that top/bottom scrolling.

    Aggresive AI- that negative modifier is so unintuitive (but again I didn't realize that before the game) and such a blunt instrument for make the AI aggresive that it is just frustrating. I wonder if we had a little brother like Mao (who doesn't care about religion much) could we have gotten him to please such that a war and mutual military struggle would put us into friendly territory?

    My money is a declaration on Alex, he was the odd man out right from the get go with Louis, Monty and Romulus being the 3 musketeers; Alex is like D'Artangion, but not as cool :p
     
  19. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    Well, it's easy to do that the cheap way - just conquer it all yourself and gift it to the AI. Even with a rule of no giving away cities, you could effectively do the conquering yourself anyway, leaving one damaged unit in each city for your partner to kill. Alternatively, just raze all the territory yourself and let the AI resettle.

    Can an AI be supported to a domination victory with no military assistance from the human player? Perhaps, and I know of only one way to answer that question... :mischief:
     
  20. Atlas

    Atlas Titanus

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    Yeah, I was thinking about something along the lines no gifting cities not originally founded by your AI partner and no military gifting units. Could it be done, I don't think so :mischief: , Yes I seriously doubt it ;), how would we find out :devil: ?
     

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