RB29b - Cultural Extermination

Here's a shot of my last turn w/ both cultural borders and resources (not sure if there's an easier way to do it but, thanks Photoshop).



Maybe to the north of the SE fish? Or to the west of Paris, getting the silks (or sugar and gems) w/ the intent of stealing Paris' bananas?
 
Wow - there are so many options. The options as I see it are (in no particular order):
  • fish near japan
  • sugar / bananas W of france
  • corn and sheep in the north west
  • production city East of moscow picking up all the forests and the corn
No one has stuck there head out and said 'delay mono until 3rd city' yet. I will try and play this afternoon and my plan is to delay the new religion until I have a 3rd city on the ground. Speak now or ...
 
Hi,

maybe it's too late already, but I think we should found Judaism ASAP without waiting for our third city. Founding our third city will take quite a while, and we might lose the religion to our opponents. Additionally, if we do not found the city aggressively near enemy borders and choose a more productive site instead, that city does not need to be a holy city. Also, if we carry out our plan of founding Confucianism via the Oracle, we might get another chance of generating a holy city, so I would prefer not to delay Judaism.

However, I see I'm the only one here with that preference, so please note that I'm fine with delaying Monotheism, too. :)


Real Life still hasn't allowed me to take a look at the save, so I cannot really comment on where to found our third city yet. However, I think I would prefer a strong production site over another aggressive settlement, for several reasons: 1) We have annoyed one civ already and don't need to annoy more so early; 2) we need a city pumping our some units rather sooner than later; 3) and finally our capital will soon be busy building the oracle, emphasizing point 2) even more.

But I haven't played CIV for so long, and haven't played on Prince for even longer, that I could be overly cautious here and a more bold settlement might work better - dunno.

-Kylearan
 
playing now.
 
As it turned out, I too decided that we should grab mono while it still had a religion. As such ...

That city is now generating 10 culture per turn.
I had also scouted out our next city location. I'm thinking of the Fish site down near Japan. Ok food, some science but good hills for production (see later). Yes, it puts pressure on the Japanese and Americans while we really cannot afford it ... but it will be a good city for us. France put out a settler while ours was still some turns from completion and did cause me some worry ... will he take my city site ... NO, phew!


Here is our third city ... the AI suggested 1 to the W to bring in the France's stone, but I wanted the phant and more hills instead.


More detail on our 3rd city. I think this should be a good production site down the track ... but then again, city site planning is one of my 'areas for improvement'.


Oh yes, we picked up copper working, revolted to slavery and OR and started pottery for the grainaries. There is some interesting AI relationship info in the log too.
Spoiler log :

Logging by Ruff's Cobbled Mod Pack v2.0.1 (Vanilla v1.61) - New Log Entries
Turn 79/660 (1630 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:23:35]
Tech learned: Monotheism
Judaism founded in St. Petersburg
Judaism has spread: St. Petersburg

IBT:
Attitude Change: Bismarck(Germany) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Genghis Khan(Mongolia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 80/660 (1600 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:27:35]
Research begun: Bronze Working (11 Turns)

IBT:
Civics Change: Genghis Khan(Mongolia) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 81/660 (1570 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:29:33]
Moscow grows: 3

IBT:

Turn 82/660 (1540 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:29:44]

IBT:

Turn 83/660 (1510 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:29:51]

IBT:

Turn 84/660 (1480 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:30:14]

IBT:

Turn 85/660 (1450 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:30:24]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Bismarck(Germany) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Genghis Khan(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 86/660 (1420 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:30:37]
St. Petersburg finishes: Settler

IBT:
Attitude Change: Bismarck(Germany) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Genghis Khan(Mongolia) towards Bismarck(Germany), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Napoleon(France) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Napoleon(France) towards Roosevelt(America), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 87/660 (1390 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:31:27]
St. Petersburg begins: Warrior (8 turns)

IBT:
Attitude Change: Napoleon(France) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 88/660 (1360 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:31:52]
Moscow grows: 4

IBT:

Turn 89/660 (1330 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:32:10]
Moscow begins: Worker (10 turns)

IBT:

Turn 90/660 (1300 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:32:57]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Bismarck(Germany) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Genghis Khan(Mongolia) towards Bismarck(Germany), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 91/660 (1270 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:33:26]
Novgorod founded
Novgorod begins: Work Boat (23 turns)
Moscow begins: Archer (5 turns)

IBT:
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Genghis Khan(Mongolia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Napoleon(France) towards Roosevelt(America), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Roosevelt(America), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 92/660 (1240 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:34:29]
Tech learned: Bronze Working
St. Petersburg grows: 3

IBT:
Attitude Change: Bismarck(Germany) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Roosevelt(America), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 93/660 (1210 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:34:47]
Research begun: Pottery (6 Turns)

IBT:
Attitude Change: Napoleon(France) towards Roosevelt(America), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Civics Change: RB29b - Cultural Extermination(Russia) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'
Civics Change: RB29b - Cultural Extermination(Russia) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'
Civics Change: Tokugawa(Japan) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 94/660 (1180 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:36:03]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Napoleon(France) towards Roosevelt(America), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 95/660 (1150 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:37:48]
Moscow finishes: Archer

IBT:
Attitude Change: Bismarck(Germany) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Roosevelt(America), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 96/660 (1120 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:38:13]


The Save
 
An autologger, yuck! :vomit:

Our third city site looks good! And maybe the AI suggested one tile to the west to avoid cultural overlap? :mischief: :D

Got it. We need more settlers and workers, need to start to build the Oracle, and need to pump out some military (did BW reveal any copper nearby?). Oy, that's a lot to do...

-Kylearan
 
An autologger, yuck! :vomit:
Hey - there is some good stuff in that log. Anyway, the above is my typical reporting style, highlights, directions, major items, etc with all the 'round by round' stuff in the log.

Re copper - yes, we do have some, 3 tiles directly south of Moscow. There is a good backfill city site there (one day).
 
Hi,

Hey - there is some good stuff in that log.
That's precisely what I don't like about it: I hate it to sift through a lot of meaningless stuff just to see what really important happened. I don't read autologger output at all normally, but hints like "There is some interesting AI relationship info in the log too" force me to.

I'm a big fan of reports that sum up all the important things that had happened during the turnset in a fun-to-read kind of way, leaving out all the meaningless stuff. In my opinion, SGs should be more about telling a story than presenting a technical logbook, and reading through autologger output feels like chore to me.

Imagine the famous Cuban Isolationist SG if Sirian and Sulla had used an autologger... ;)

Your report was good apart from that though, and in the end it's all a matter of taste, so feel free to ignore my rant. :)

-Kylearan
 
I'm a big fan of reports that sum up all the important things that had happened during the turnset in a fun-to-read kind of way, leaving out all the meaningless stuff. In my opinion, SGs should be more about telling a story than presenting a technical logbook, and reading through autologger output feels like chore to me.
Oh me too. I totally agree with all that you have said above. The only problem is that one person's interesting stuff is someone else's meaningless stuff (and the other way round too). That is why I put my log in a spoiler tag. I think that this is the very first time that I have actually directly commented on the log but (in my defense) I did explicitly state what I noticed in the logger that I considered interesting. Next time I will include it in the report ...

Hey ... look at this, Tokugawa couldn't work out how he felt about Roosevelt!

Turn 91/660 (1270 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:33:26]
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Roosevelt(America), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 92/660 (1240 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:34:29]
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Roosevelt(America), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 95/660 (1150 BC) [11-Mar-2007 22:37:48]
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Roosevelt(America), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

:D
 
Hey ... look at this, Tokugawa couldn't work out how he felt about Roosevelt!
Neither could Bismarck (towards JC) or JC (towards Genghis). Weird.

If my reports are lacking feel free to say so. I haven't had a lot of practice reporting Civ games.

So Nappy puts a city right between our wall and city 3. I do look forward to seeing what becomes of it. :mischief:

Over all I am perfectly fine w/ both decisions to go ahead and take Judaism and where you founded city 3. Good stuff.
 
While Pottery for granaries and cottages is never a bad research choice, I still think it's not the best one in our situation. We have cows at Moscow, and still lack Animal Husbandry! So I switched research to AH instead. When that came in, I delayed Pottery even more in favor of Priesthood, because I don't want us to lose the Oracle - but I've queued up Pottery after that again. Stonehenge was built in a far-away land already in 940BC, by the way.

After building the worker at Moscow, I built barracks for some turns to let Moscow grow to size 4, then switched it to another settler, finished in 12 turns. Two workers are there, having connected and mined the copper, and one has started building a pasture on the cows.



The other one should join him, then I suggest both should build a mine on the forest hill, chopping the forest in the process. After that, they should irrigate the plains with the forest (or, depending on the timing, only chop that forest) to help building the oracle - that forest has to go sooner or later anyway, if we want to bring irrigation to the northern plains tiles later.

Once the settler is complete, set Moscow to max growth again, then once it hits size 5, to max hammers. If the settler will be complete before Priesthood is finished, continue building the barracks for a couple of turns, but switch to the Oracle as soon as possible.


At St. Petersburg, I have already whipped barracks, and it's now building archers.



I've micromanaged the tiles so that it will grow on the same turn as the whip anger wears off, so please micromanage the city after that again. It should build a couple of archers, probably squeeze in another worker, and maybe even whip a temple inbetween as soon as the whipping anger is gone. But even without the temple, the tiles north of Paris will soon be ours. :D

If we have a spare worker, he could connect St. Petersburg to the copper too, so we can whip an emergency axeman if needed. Close border tension is mounting already...


Novgorod is still building a workboat, but I've set in to max hammers. Once the boat is complete, please switch it to max growth configuration, and whip a granary and some cultural buildings there!


Nappy and Toku(!) have an open borders agreement! After we have researched Priesthood and Pottery, I suggest going for Writing as well. This will allow us to sign open borders ourselves, to improve relations, and it is a prerequisite for Code of Laws, which we will want to take as our free Oracle tech.
 
Here's an overview shot of our surroundings:



Where should we found our next city? Another aggressive settlement east of Moscow, or should we claim the happiness resource or the sheep to the west?

Another thing to discuss is if we should try to get the Parthenon as well, for some great artist production, although this might be too late already. I think we should definately build the Oracle in Moscow, so I'm not sure how and where to get the Parthenon...


Roster:
Kylearan
regoarrarr -> UP NOW
EricStratton -> on deck
Ruff_Hi

Everyone is free to play 10 or 15 turns, depending on war/peace status or available time.

-Kylearan
 

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I got it and will probably play tomorrow evening. It's too bad that due to spacing, we can't squeeze another city in that hole S of Lyons (I don't see any tiles that aren't 2 away from an existing city, unless I'm missing something)

I think we should take this next settler and go far west, and stake our claim in the ground. This should be come the Confucian holy city if we can work things right, thought that would require a religion to make it to Novgorod first
 
I actually ran a worker back to the cows to build the pasture only to find that I couldn't when he got there :duh:

Re cities ... (from above) ...

  • fish near japan (already settled by us)
  • sugar / bananas W of france (nice - this is my preference)
  • corn and sheep in the north west (optional but depends on how close other AIs are - if they are close: settle, if they aren't: go further West and settle against them)
  • production city East of moscow picking up all the forests and the corn (I was looking at the tile with the horses, pre-AH but now ... not a valid city location due to Lyons. The only valid location I can see is the forest hill 2 tiles N of the horses (what a yuk site!) ... maybe better to go 3 tiles N of the horses and let it be a non-resource fishing village - very low priority city, come back to it later)
 
Turn 0: 850. Things are looking good.

1 (835): Not much. I set a worker to chopping towards our settler.

3 (805): Archer->Archer. I'd like a Monastery in here, but (at least) a 2nd archer is probably a smart move, given the amount of border cramping we're putting on Nappy

6 (760): Novgorod Workboat->Pyramids. Nothing cultural for it to build, and I will swap this to a grarnary once we get Pottery.

7 (745): Priesthood->Pottery. Conveniently, due to the forest chop, our settler in Moscow is due next turn and it can start on the Oracle. We'll have to chop that too since we're getting kind of late, even on Prince.

8 (730): Settler->Oracle. Currently due in 44! turns.

10 (700): And.... not even close - Oracle BIADL.

Leaving it here to figure out what to do next. Moscow needs something else to build. Some defense might be nice... I currently have St. Pete on a temple but that could be vetoed.

Pottery comes in next turn - swap Novgorod to Granary.



Most importantly where to settle. As you can see, Bismark invalided the spot that grabs sugar and bananas. Also, Paris's borders expanded again, meaning we can't settle 3 tiles away. Which is annoying. One option is what I have marked in blue. That puts pressure on the Bismark city and Paris. But being 4 tiles away means we give up the chance to put a city 3 away.

Another option would be pink dot, which is 3 vertical from the Bismark city, and also grabs 3 happy resources including grassland river gems!! (though we'd need IW for all 3 / and Calendar for the other 2). Another option would be one east of pink dot which gives up the spices but gives us more of a chance to push back Paris's borders to settle exactly 3W (i.e. on the Bananas)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/4766/RB29b_-_Cultural_Extermination_BC-0700.Civ4SavedGame
 
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