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RB5 - Rome, Emperor, Lakes, Just win

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Sirp, Dec 4, 2005.

  1. Sirp

    Sirp Emperor

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    Okay, I guess we're going to play on the new patch then. :)

    I tend to think this will make things harder for us, but........bring it on! :hammer:
     
  2. Sirp

    Sirp Emperor

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    Err...*bump*. Anyone available to take it? bed_head?

    -Sirp.
     
  3. ToddMarshall

    ToddMarshall Maniac - Stellar Wingman

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    Checking in. I'm still in Atlanta and am leaving for home tomorrow. I will be available for a turn Monday or Tuesday night, so please don't skip me if it gets back to me before then :)

    Regarding patching, I'd allready patched for mp play. I GUARANTEE this will make the game harder. Hey, if we lose, we lose.

    I really hope they adjust things back from where this patch took them. Not necessarily ALL the way back, but now the ramp up from one difficulty level to the next is much steeper than it was before =/

    - Maniac
     
  4. bed_head7

    bed_head7 Deity

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    You'll have to skip me for awhile. A string of bad storms and my house's promixity to the river means that the last few days have been spent moving stuff to dry ground, and once the water recedes there will be lots of cleanup. Sorry.
     
  5. ToddMarshall

    ToddMarshall Maniac - Stellar Wingman

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    Umm, in that case, unless there is an objection, I got it.
     
  6. Sirp

    Sirp Emperor

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    Excellent. :) Go get 'em!
     
  7. Skyfish

    Skyfish Emperor

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    Sorry for being AWOL, long story !

    Am back and get take my turn whenever due :)
     
  8. Sirp

    Sirp Emperor

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    Okay, here's the roster the way I see it:

    Sirp <-- on deck
    Skyfish (skipped last turn, ready for next turn)
    Jester <-- just played
    Maniac <-- NOW PLAYING
    bed_head (skipped indefinitely)

    Let me know of any clarifications to this that might be necessary. :)

    -Sirp.
     
  9. ToddMarshall

    ToddMarshall Maniac - Stellar Wingman

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    I am trying to get my turn done as we speak. I thought I'd have lots of time last night, but exhaustion had other plans (zzzzzzz). I have a 2 hour window right now to play. If I can't get it done tonite, I can guarantee completion by tomorrow night.... I know thats a little over 48 =/. On the plus side, I don't anticipate there will be any more delays in my being able to play and post after this turn as I'm down to only one SG and my life is returning to normal.

    Edit: Don't have time to finish tonite :( If you can't wait till tomorrow, then go ahead. Otherwise, I'll finish the turn and post tomorrow.
     
  10. Sirp

    Sirp Emperor

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    It's okay. :) Tomorrow will be fine.

    Concentrate on playing well, not fast.

    -Sirp.
     
  11. ToddMarshall

    ToddMarshall Maniac - Stellar Wingman

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    Well, its half done and its past my bedtime (I'm back at my "moving to" home and checking in). We've made good, albeit, slow progress. :)

    I think we need to worry about Mansa Musa soon (Mentioning now so I don't forget). He's really the only one I think can beat us if we play well.

    - Maniac

    I'm finishing the turn tonite. It's in progress.

    Turn complete. Writeup will be up before I go to bed.
     
  12. ToddMarshall

    ToddMarshall Maniac - Stellar Wingman

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    Preturn analysis:

    The first thing of note is that we are researching Metal. Jester suggests we abandon this in favor of CoL. I dissagree on the basis that Toku has CoL and we'll extort it from him. I set research down to get metal in 6, so we don't go broke getting it.


    Well, after reading things about our position being precarious, I'm expecting we're in for a dogfight, yet that doesn't appear to be the case. Looks like we're going to roll Toku right up to me. Don't get me wrong, this in not a Civ III like stroll in the park. Our next objective seems to be Osaka... Why we wen't for Osaka and not Kyoto, which is very lightly defended, I'm not sure. I consider changing plans and heading for Kyoto first, but after half an hours thought, veto that. With my luck, in the time it would take to redeploy, Toku would have a fleet of cats in Kyoto :(


    As I said, Toku has Osaka, our next target, plenty well defended. On top of everything else, its on a hill.



    Our stack is also impressive, but we can't simply walk it SOD style next to the city. The catapults would eat us for lunch... NO I have annother idea. BEHIND the city I see a nice square to stroll the SOD to. A hills/forest. Meanwhile, I shall create a second force to attack in a double stack from the front. I figure 3 cats can't weaken me enough to stop me if I do that.

    On the home front, I'm plesantly surprised to find ample workers :goodjob:

    I take a tour of our cities. Conclusion: We need more cottages, starting with our new JApaneese Annexation. Yes, Tokyo is going to get filled up with some Cottage Cheese (TM) We needed the irrigation that we've done for the most part, but now, we need cottages. Lots and lots and oodles of cottages.

    Our military build orders... Why so many more Praets?? I wish we had a few more cat's and elephants building instead of all Praets. More cats for a 2nd stack, and more Elephants for diversity. However, I'm not about to abort several partially built units

    OK, enough stratagizing.... Time to hit Next Turn...

    IT - We're rich I tell ya!



    The boarders of Jute expand

    [1] - Move the big stack to the tile behind the hill south of Osaka. Move other units into position. Begin hooking up banana's and dyes... Both badly needed for fight WW.

    IT - The axeman issues forth from Osaka to attack our stack?? :smoke: One of our Praets takes minor damage.

    [2] - Antium: Praet -> Elephant
    Pisae: Praet -> Cat

    The Dyes are hooked, which brings the our cities out of riot.

    IT - America captures the Barb city on the frozen lake right out from under our nose *sigh*

    [3] - Neapolis: Library -> Market (felt it was needed since the city isn't a great production city yet and is a good money source with the gold hill)

    More moving of troops. The bananas are plantationed, just need roaded

    With more dyes coming in the near future, and with us in need of a friend, I dial up Cyrus and make this deal:



    IT - :sleep:

    [4] - Cumae: Praet -> Praet

    Quiet Turn. Moving Troops.

    IT - :sleep:
     
  13. ToddMarshall

    ToddMarshall Maniac - Stellar Wingman

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    [5] - Pisae: Cat -> Cat

    The pincer stacks move into position. For some inexplicable reason, Toku has moved stuff out of the city. Only 2 cats there now. What is he smoking??

    IT - The unit's Toku had removed from the city turn arround and attack our force on the uber defensive hill :smoke: He suicides a couple cats, but we still have several uninjured Praets. We also take out a boatload of his units without losing any.

    [6] - Bombard the cities defensed to 33%. Take out an Archer who was trying to reinforce the city with a 6.5 Praet.... With a turn of rest under our Medic II Praet, most of our Praets will be fully healed. Unfortunately, our elphants were pretty banged up. Fortunately, Toku is down to 2 elephants, 2 archers, 1 chariot and 1 cat in the city.

    IT - Our archer killing praet kills a horse archer :) Metal Casting comes in, I go for Lit because it is cheap and will let us build the epics.

    [7]Antium: Elephant -> Forge
    Iceland: Praet -> Forge

    Cats take the defenses down to 6%. Time to get this party started :)

    BATTLE FOR OSAKA

    Praet (City I) Vs Archer (garrison II) 65% chance for us and he wins :)
    Praet (city I) vs Archer (combat I) 70% chance for us and he wins :)
    Praet (city I) vs Elephant (Combat I) 68% chance for us, and he dies.. cutting the elephant to 4.4
    Praet (city I) vs Elephant (Combat I) 68% chance for us, and he dies... :(
    Praet (Combat II) vs Horse Archer (Combar I) 89% chance for us, and we win.
    Praet (7.9/8 nothing) vs Elephant (4.4/8 Combat I) 89% chance for us, and we win.
    Praer (5.6/8 Combat II & Mounted) Vs Elephant (3.2 Combat I) 99% chance for us and we win
    Praet (7.7/8 Combat I & Medic I) vs Catapult (barrage) 98% chance for us and we win.

    The City is ours! We liberate 174 gold. And I am honored to report that we now controll the Parthenon and the Hindu Holy City!

    Roosevelt now has 400g, and Monotheisim is only worth 230g to him, so I sell. We can use the cash to keep research afloat.

    I start moving troops toward our next target. That one will be for somone else to capture.

    IT - :sleep:

    [8] Rome: MArket -> Forge
    Pisae: Cat -> Forge

    Mostly healing troops :sleep:

    IT - Nothing

    [9] - Jute: Barracks -> Forge
    Cumae: Praet -> Cat (so we can have a total of 6... two stacks anyone??)

    Move Troops

    IT - Musa completes Sistine

    [10] I don't do annything. I'm going to let Sirp have an extra turn because there are lots of options here.

    We can continue to press the war, at least through Kyoto, then stop (original plan).

    We can press the war on both flanks even now if we want. There is a japaneese city under the fog of war on the floodplains west of Osaka that might be nice to take. (greedy plan)

    We can make peace. Japan will give us their soul, including CoL right now if we want to take it. We can, most definately use CoL. (meek plan)

    If we make peace, we could decide to go wreck some of Musa's territory. He's starting to pull away a bit in tech. (fun plan)

    Anyway, with so many decisions to make, I think it's best to just leave the troops sit for the next player to decide what to do with them.

    As far as I can see, we are pretty much close to caught up in tech, except with Musa, who is trying to run away (like usual)


    Here is the save

    http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RBC5_AD-1000.zip
     
  14. Sirp

    Sirp Emperor

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    Looks like some nice going Maniac. :hammer:

    Sirp <-- UP NOW
    Skyfish <-- on deck
    Jester
    Maniac <-- just played
    bed_head (skipped by request)

    I got it. Will try to play by tomorrow night. I do indeed think that Mansa Musa looks like a nice target.

    -Sirp.
     
  15. Sirp

    Sirp Emperor

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    Okay here we go. Just a partial report so far...

    (0) 1000AD: I spend a while pondering what to do. I send an archer east to find Toku's city over there. Our archer climbs a hill, but can't sight it yet. After some consideration, I decide to take the 'middle of the road' option: concentrate on taking Kyoto. It's definitely an attractive target, since with all that fresh water around it, it will be paying its own maintenance bill in no time.

    I send a small contingent (praetorian + war elephant) to attack Toku's iron supply.

    Attacking Kyoto is likely to be a bloody affair. Being snuggled against that lake, there are only two easily accessible tiles to attack from, and both of them are flat land, affording no defense against catapults.



    I move two praetorians over the river, two tiles from Kyoto. Daring Toku to attack me. Only a horse archer can both attack and then withdraw to the safety of the city on the same turn. And a horse archer would almost certainly lose the battle. Any other unit would probably lose too. I'm hoping they will send a catapult, but I doubt it. We want our small stacks to soak up catapult attacks, before our larger stacks come into play.

    One of the nice things about the new combat under the patch for us is that if a catapult does some damage to a praetorian, reducing it to somewhere between 6 and 8 strength, the praetorian will still be rather powerful, and won't easily be picked off by an axeman or swordsman.

    All the build orders -- mostly forges -- look fine to me, so I leave them as they are. One worker is sent to build a road that will allow us easy access to Nani, the Christian holy city in Mali.

    (1) 1010AD: Kyoto's garrison apparently has a suicide wish: their best defender, a level 3 swordsman with +10% strength, and +25% vs melee units charges out of the city, two spaces south-west, into some vacant flat land, between our groups of praetorians.



    We take the opportunity to kill him. This leaves the archers as the best defenders vs praetorians in Kyoto, and we have more than a 50% chance to win even without bombardment.

    We will have one catapult next to Kyoto next turn, and another three the turn after that.

    I decide that we have enough troops healed in Osaka to mount an assault on Edo -- without bombardment support. Our archer sights Satsuma in the east, but I decide that that city will be too much of a defensive liability in the case of a war with Mali.

    (2) 1020AD: Literature comes in. I set research to machinery.

    Our jumbos take control of Toku's iron.



    Our stacks start positioning themselves around Kyoto. Bombardment can start next turn.

    IBT Tokuguwa counter-attacks, concentrating on the three praetorian stack directly west of Kyoto. Combat goes like this:

    catapult attacks, loses, does collateral damage
    catapult attacks, loses, does collateral damage
    elephant attacks, wins, is reduced to 6.4/8
    catapult attacks, wins, does collateral damage, is reduced to 2.5/5
    horse archer attacks, loses



    Not a bad exchange I don't think: anything to get rid of his catapults. A new catapult does show up to the north-west of that tile though.

    (3) 1030AD: We move more units in. Kyoto is bombarded for the first time. Next turn we may be able to begin an assault, depending on what the counter-attack is like.



    IBT there is intense fighting. Toku throws one catapult at each of our stacks. Then he follows up by attacking with two elephants, each who win, and a horse archer, who loses.

    (4) 1040AD: Most of our forces are damaged, but he has no catapults left that we can see. Also, many of his forces in Kyoto are damaged too.

    I bombard the city down to 15% defense. We could probably take the city this turn if we staged a determined attack, but I see no reason why we couldn't take it next turn with less losses, so we wait, gathering reinforcements.



    Meanwhile, our forces gather south of Edo, preparing to strike. There is one catapult in Edo, but it can only go for one of our three stacks.

    IBT there is quite some activity. Firstly, Toku decides to try his luck with two war elephants against our praetorians. He goes 1-for-2.

    Then Toku converts to Judaism. Sorry Toku, even if you convert to our religion, we're still taking your capital.

    Then Napoleon comes along, demanding that we cancel our deals with Mali. I agree to this, since Napoleon is quite friendly with us already, and Mali is tending toward being our enemy.

    Then Roosevelt declares war on Tokuguwa. Looks like Japan is in trouble.

    (5) 1050AD: Rome completes its forge. I decide to try our luck, and I set it to build the Great Library, due in 9 turns.

    Kyoto has apparently whipped a horse archer. Time to take that city.

    We bombard it to 0%. Then we suicide one catapult (well, having 28% chance to win wasn't exactly "suicide", but the catapult was destroyed), damaging all their units within the city.

    Then we attack their archer with a praetorian, winning easily. This exposes their spear, who is killed by another praetorian, leaving the way for our jumbo to trample all over their remaining archer.

    A praetorian cleans up their horse archer, leaving a catapult to kill off their badly injured jumbo and advance.

    Kyoto is ours.

    Meanwhile, in the north, we have five praetorians and a wounded jumbo ready to attack Edo. They have an axeman, an archer, and a catapult. The best we can get is around 30% to beat the axeman. This could be a costly acquisition.

    Our praetorian attacks and WINS against the axeman!

    This leaves another praetorian to take our the archer, and a third marches all over the catapult. The city is ours. Taking it leaves a big 'culture gap' of unclaimed land in the area.

    Tokuguwa's capital moves east, to Osaka.

    I decide that we've gotten enough out of this war. We agree to a peace treaty with Tokuguwa in exchange for Code of Laws, 30 gold, and 2gpt (all of his gold).

    We make peace with Japan, having cut her in half, and now she is embroiled in a war with the Americans.



    Whew! All that and I'm only half way through my turns. Stay tuned for the rest....

    Hmm...next time maybe I should try to avoid using such large images, especially when I take more than 1 screenshot per turn. :p
     
  16. ToddMarshall

    ToddMarshall Maniac - Stellar Wingman

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    Nice job taking Osaka. I was probably a little too cautious on my turn, but it worked out in the end because we took such light losses that we could make 2 stacks at the beginning of yours.

    I like the GL try. Specialists would be especially nice now that we own the Parthenon. Even if we don't get it, we could use the cash for sure.

    Has anyone built HG yet? If not, that would be nice to try for too.

    IF we aren't going to extort CoL from Toku (and maybe we are still planing that), we need to try to get it from somone. We desperately need the courthouses/FP.
     
  17. Sirp

    Sirp Emperor

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    I think that caution early generally pays off because one can 'let loose' with fresh troops later on.

    Yeah, there's nothing that pressing that Rome can build, so I figure it's worth the shot.

    No, but it might be hard to get considering:

    - we don't have a source of stone.
    - we don't have an aqueduct in any of our cities
    - our most productive city (Rome) is already committed to building the Great Library for the next nine turns.

    Still, if it looks like there's a chance of getting it, I will go for it.

    ;)

    Okay, trying to play the next five turns now. Should go quicker as long as we stay at peace, which I expect we will, since it would take at least five turns to get our legions into position to attack another target (which would likely be Mali).

    -Sirp.
     
  18. Sirp

    Sirp Emperor

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    (6) 1060AD: Neapolis market -> forge; Pisae forge -> Aqueduct -- interested in Hanging Gardens.

    I think it's time for a revolution. We switch to Vassalage (+2 xp per unit is nice), and Theocracy (we are going to be building some infrastructure, and it'd be nice to spread Judaism).

    Civic upkeep increases from 18 -> 26, but I think it's well worth it.

    Apparently Washington captured or razed a Japanese city, because suddenly the territory around Kyoto is neutral. That is rather good for us, because it means Kyoto will be able to grow alot more easily.

    I send some troops to investigate, and yes, Washington recaptured Atlanta from Japan.

    We're going to be highly dishonorable and pillage some cottages around Atlanta while it's neutral territory. :evil:.

    IBT Napoleon offers us a gold-for-silks trade. A nice deal for us I think, so I accept.

    (7) 1070AD: Anarchy over. We desperately need culture in Osaka, so I whip the library for 3 population (it was due in 9 turns). Gaining access to the sheep sooner, and competing with Mali's culture is a must.

    Our troops pillage some cottages in neutral land, getting us around 40 gold.

    (8) 1080AD: Tokyo: library -> forge. Osaka: library -> granary (can get in just 3 turns from left over slave-hammers. Nice to have this city grow fast).

    Mansa Musa completes the Great Library! Grrr. Another reason for us to not like him! Maybe the AI should also have a diplomatic relations penalty like that: "-2: You built the Great Library when we were only two turns away!" ;)

    To add insult to injury, this makes Mali re-overtake us in score.

    (9) 1090AD: Rome gives 110 gold for partial production on Great Library. I switch it to building a Courthouse. Then I intend for it to start pumping out some Jewish Missionaries. We can get it to build Heroic Epic eventually. (Unless we decide to make some other city be a unit-factory).

    (10) 1010AD: Kyoto and Atlanta both come out of disorder at the same time. Atlanta 'only' has two tiles worth of culture. I start a library in Kyoto, which we might want to whip once it gets some hammers.

    Cumae finishes its forge, and begins on the hanging gardens, due in 13 turns, but we can speed it with forest cutting and the whip. Also, it's due to grow in 4 turns, and then can go hammer-oriented.

    I leave many units unmoved for Skyfish. I think we might want to engage in a 'limited' war with Mali, to put a check on its power. The only problem is that our border with Mali is huge, and the logistics of a war -- defending all possible attack points -- will be difficult to manage.

    One interesting thing I've noticed is that I like cutting forests alot more than many players do. Not so much forests that are in a city radius, but forests that are between city radiuses, and forests that are in neutral territory, and are not expected to ever be in range of our city. (In wartime, I sometimes even sneak workers across the border and chop forests in enemy territory, taking the hammers back to one of my cities. :) )

    I am also fairly inclined to cut down forests that are next to rivers: forests next to rivers don't produce an extra +1 gold, while land without the forest will. 3 food + 1 gold or 2 food + 1 gold + cottage seems more attractive to me than 2 food + hammer. (Lumber mills rectify this, but they come in fairly late...).

    -Sirp.
     
  19. Sirp

    Sirp Emperor

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    Sirp <-- just played
    Skyfish <-- UP NOW
    Jester <-- on deck
    Maniac
    bed_head (skipped indefinitely)
     
  20. Skyfish

    Skyfish Emperor

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    Got it !

    I likemuch better to be the score leader as late as possible, in order to ease trading.

    Gottal love the new trade change aloowing us to get techs for peace, this was a huge issue for me in 1.09 !

    Gotta hate the new 1.52 combat system though, but heck, this game's in the bag already anyway :( ....
     

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