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RBC12 - Fall of Rome - Huns (Diety)

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Ridgelake, Feb 15, 2004.

  1. Ridgelake

    Ridgelake Chieftain

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    The Huns area a dynamic tribe that definitely put a hurting on the Romans. I am looking forward to joining other great generals to make the Romans beg for mercy.

    Alas, my conduit to these times has come into some unforeseen difficulties. (My computer isn't running Civ3 right now). But hopefully, in a week's time, I will be more able to get things progressing smoothly. I will not have access to the portal during that time. With that said, would one of my fine comrades (ACK! wrong game), fine leaders start this off? Grimjack, would you do the honors, please?

    Order of Play

    Grimjack <---up
    T-Hawk <----on deck
    Ridgelake <----out until 2/22. Also with computer problems.

    We are looking for more generals to help us slaughter the romans. If any others are interested in signing up, please do so.
     
  2. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

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    I'd like to join your game. I am an experienced CIV player who has always played the most difficult levels right back to CIV1. I have beaten diety both in CIV II and CIV III, but have only recently discovered the on-line community.

    If you're willing to accept an experienced newcomer, I'm your man.
     
  3. Ridgelake

    Ridgelake Chieftain

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    Welcome, Abegweit. Glad to see some new interested people. It is a good group to play with here and I hope that you enjoy your online interactions. One thing that you should be aware of is that we do play with some restrictions. Here is a link that you can follow for a list of "exploits" that we voluntarily avoid.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68410&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=1

    If avoiding these tactics is ok with you, then I will slot you between T-hawk and myself. The new play order will be:

    Grimjack <---up, play 10-15 turns
    T-Hawk <----on deck 10 turns hereafter
    Abegweit <----in the hole
    Ridgelake <----out until 2/22. Also with computer problems
     
  4. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

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    Thanx for your warm welcome. I hope I can live up to it. As for the restrictions, I've looked at several of the RBCiv games and will try to live by the rules. I stand in awe of the talents of Charis and Sirian and the rest of the group.

    As I understand it, this game is being played under C3Conquests. Well... I've been meaning to pick up a copy. I promise to try it out before my turn at bat,
     
  5. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    Welcome and glad to have you here, Abegweit. Hopefully this will be just the first of many RBCiv games for you. :goodjob:

    Grimjack, feel free to take your time on getting this started. I've got the Sid game to get started too, and will have a big turn in LK59 within a day or two as well.
     
  6. Grimjack

    Grimjack Bounty Hunter

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    I will start up tonight after RBC10. It will take some time though, as I would want to think about strategies and tactics for the start.

    Mongols start at the far edge of the map, thus making the powerful barbarian units less valuable, as they will not have much time to reach the Roman empires.

    I see two choices. Either we start by eliminating one of the barbarian tribes at once, to expand our production, and hopefully war ourselves into a couple of cavalry armies, which we then can use to bring mayhem into the roman lands.

    Or, we play the nice little barbarian playing friends / RoPs with the other AIs, in order to pass through their lands, and let them have some troops taking the blunt of the Romans counterattack.

    I will have to check on how fast the Romans get Victorypoints to see how fast they need to be eliminated.

    Grimjack
     
  7. Grimjack

    Grimjack Bounty Hunter

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    We are militaristic and Industrious.

    We are the largest barbarian tribe with our 15 horsemen and 12 Migrants ( Settlers. )

    Main disadvantage is that we start at one edge of the screen, far away from the roman empires.
    We do have Horseback Riding on our competitors.



    Dotmap for discussion. I trust most of you are awake and able to comment.

    Red dots I consider important. Blue dots semi-important, and purple dots more of a filler to improve the choice of tiles for the red and blue dots.

    Western blue dots is assumed to be moved to better match the river once actual scouting data has arrived.

    Primary goal would be a farmers gambit while our horsmen checked to see if it was feasible to grab a couple of cities from the closest barbarian nation.
    Workers would be a top priority, and getting a worker factory up and working is not impossible with all the wheats around.

    I am not really satisfied with my dotmap, but I cannot figure out a better placement either. Any suggestions are welcome.

    Also, in spite of us probably not reaching the barb techs first, unless I hear serious objections, I will research at max down barbarian tree, due to the rebate we will get if/when we need to get the tech.

    Grimjack
     
  8. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    OK, I'm awake and commenting. :)

    Are there any food resources underneath our units? I can't see from that picture. If not (or maybe even if so), I would suggest to move the red dot next to the central wheat one northwest. Make that our capital; the free cultural expansion will pull in the cattle soon. This capital can then be a settler and worker farm while everything else builds military.

    Long-term, I'd lean towards trying to RoP with the intervening barbarian tribes to get faster access to Rome, rather than trying to conquer our way through an extra civ. Grabbing a couple cities from a barb neighbor might be doable, but I'm not sure what it would gain us. Conquering a barb neighbor wholesale will probably not be possible in time to gain real productive advantage in the short timeframe of this scenario.

    I have no idea what to do with research; that's your call. :)
     
  9. Grimjack

    Grimjack Bounty Hunter

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    There is a wheat northwest of the red dot next to the horse. I did not consider the expansion of our capitol. I will see what I can do to have a cattle and wheat. That would be sufficient for the magic +5 food.

    A new and Improved (?) dotmap follows.

    Main disadvantage is that I see no way to get the coastal wheat into play without a temple somewhere. Perhaps moving one of the close dots would fill the space nicely. Also, no riverbased city with coastal access. Coastal access is likely not important for us for anything else than the inability to build a harbor.

    With the easy access to water, we would have no problem getting our cities to size 12. The scarcity of luxes could however be a real problem.

    Having given the matter some more consideration, perhaps move dots G and D one tile north. This would tighten the bands, and create cultural borders. It would be cramped at size 12 though.

    As for striking at a neighbour, I was seeing that more as getting a coupel of extra workers, rather than getting productive cities. Right at the start of the game, we have quite a large advantage with our 15 horsemen. They ought to be able to capture/cripple our closest neighbour.

    Very well. I will see what I can do. Probably just chicken out and position the horses so next player will get the decision :)

    Grimjack
     
  10. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    The starting government does not have the despotism tile restriction. Consider that when planning for the +5 food threshold. The cattle plus plains-wheat can make +7 food total, which gives faster growth in the beginning without a granary, then once it gets a granary (those are in this scenario, right?) the shared wheat can be used by city B instead.

    Why not move dot D one northeast? I think that square will count as on the river, too? Dot C can also move one NE to help make room.
     
  11. Grimjack

    Grimjack Bounty Hunter

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    RBC12c - Attila the merciless

    324AD Found our capitol , Great Bulgar at spot A in the last dotmap. Get a little surprised when we receive 4 commerce in the center tile.
    Set it on granary. If this is to be our worker / migrant factory, it will need to grow, and build something useful while growing.
    I set research max on Marauding.
    Next I found Pliska on spot B. Spot B could also have been a great capitol, but I chose spot A because then I can include the cow in culture expansion. Had I founded on spot B first, I would have needed to move two steps with my northernmost migrant. Now I save one turn on founding.
    Pliska is set to barracks. Kutmichevitsa ( say that three times fast. ) is also set to barracks.
    I send three of our migrants northwards, one south, and the rest west. I will see what I can settle next turn. Research is set on Marauding at max.

    326 Found Veliki, and set it to worker. Switch Kutmichevitsa to worker as well. Found Madara and set it to worker.

    328 I find a road in the west. I put a horse on it, so I can see where it leads. Found Sofia and set it to barracks.

    330 Start to slowly draw together the horse from the mad mapping expedition. Found Plovdiv in contact with the road, and set it on worker. Build Varna and set it on worker. Build Ruse by the iron and set it to worker. Found Stara Zagora and set it on worker.
    Found Pleven and set it on Barracks.

    332 Find a fur way up in the north, and I send my last migrant up there to secure it.

    334 This is the year where we manage to follow the road all the way to the Ostrogoths. They have managed to build a spearman in the four turns that have run.
    We are up horseback on them.

    336 Ostrogoths sell our contact to both of the romes. ( Which earned him Masonry and Alphabet. )
    Western rome grants us contact with Anglo-Saxons, Contact with Franks and 11 gold for our world map.
    Eastern rome gets us contact with Sassanids and Celts for world map and 12 gold.
    Contact with Celts gets us contact with Visigoths and 5 gold from Sassanids.
    None of the barbarian borthers has any money, so I will do some suboptimal trades.
    Alphabet from ostrogoths for Horseback.
    Masonry from Visigoths for Horseback
    Sailing and 73 gold from Celts for Horseback and Masonry.

    We are now even in tech, and own all the money of the barbarians. The romes are of course ahead still.
    Madara was the first to grow, and it would need a whole lot of lux tax. ( 40% is not enough.) so it gets a scientist instead.

    338 Found Sliven up by the firs, and start it on a worker.
    Pliska and Great bulgar also grows, but a modest 20% lux tax will keep them in check.

    340 Get Contact with the Vandals for world map and 25 gold from Eastern Rome.
    Get World map and 3 gold from Sassanids for Communication with Vandals and our World Map.
    Get 16 gold from Rome for World map.
    Get 20 gold from Eastern rome for World map.
    Get 50 gold from Vandals for Masonry
    Ostrogoths have a monopoly on Marauding. We still have two turns to go. I could get it for 140 gold, and then possibly use it for a math deal with Anglo-Saxons, but I will wait. Most likely I will get Marauding next turn or two.
    I can hope ostrogoths hasn't been as diligent in getting contacts.

    IBT: Pliska completes a barracks, and starts a Raider.

    342 Ostrogoths has spread Marauding around, or some other barbs have researched it, as research this turn is down to 1 gold for 1 turn.
    Get territory maps and 11 gold from Eastern rome for maps
    Get same but 16 gold from Western rome
    Get same but 13 gold from Sassanids.
    Get Marauding and 28 gold from Vandals for Sailing.

    Discover that Pillaging at min science is 333 turns, so I scratch the min science plan. :)
    We get Pillaging in 14 turns if we use max science. This will possibly take longer, since we will likely need to raise lux taxes as our cities grow.
    If we stunt our growth and run a lot of scientists, we could be the first to reach Pillaging.
    Otherwise I will let next player decide if the horsemen we have should be used for MPs, or if they should be used in a strike against Ostrogoths for loot and plunder.

    Save is here


    Grimjack

    Grimjack <---Just played
    T-Hawk <----Up
    Abegweit <-- on deck
    Ridgelake <----out until 2/22. Also with computer problems
     
  12. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    I'll probably play this one tonight, and start the Celts on Sid game tomorrow after posting a starting save tonight. Discussion is welcome until I get to play this game, of course.

    I'll have to look at it, but I think the horsemen are probably better used for police and building up. I don't really think that attacking the Ostrogoths is going to get us much. All the barb tribes stay in pop-rushing governments; any Ostrogoth city we threaten will be autorazed, not captured.

    I like the idea of researching Pillaging (we can trade it to the other barb tribes), and then marching on East Rome with those units. If we get it first, we can possibly use it to buy alliances against Rome...
     
  13. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    Correct link to Grimjack's save:

    http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/RBC12_Huns_342.zip

    I looked at the save, but I'm really tired right now and I'll play tomorrow. Some notes:

    By going around the south side of the Black Sea, we can attack East Rome (Byzantium) directly without going through the Ostrogoths. I do indeed think we should be looking to do that. There are 8 East Roman cities that can be taken before even crossing the strait and taking on Constantinople.

    Diplo check: The Franks and the Visigoths have Mathematics; we could lower lux tax to buy something like Writing or Polytheism and swing a two-fer. Would slow research on Pillaging slightly but not by a whole lot.

    I think Plovdiv should swap to a migrant. That unit can move down the road and build a city somewhere that can build (whip) a barracks and serve as a forward waystation. We can build Marauders now and get them started on the long march towards the Romes, upgrading them along the way.
     
  14. Grimjack

    Grimjack Bounty Hunter

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    I agree with T-Hawk on not striking the Ostrogoths. Basically they are just to far away, and the cities would be locked into size 1 with no culture should they get into war-time mode.

    Stockpiling money for a pillager upgrade in a forward waystation would probably make for a semi-easy conquest of eastern rome. Do not neglect to sign up Sassanids in such a scenario though, as otherwise we would face most of eastern romes production all by our selves.

    Grimjack
     
  15. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

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    Agree. So. Should we be doing all this research? Perhaps it would be better to make a big horde of raiders and stockpile money both to buy science and for the upgrade.
     
  16. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    The research is 14 turns or so, and it's going to take us longer than that to get everything in place to start attacking. We'll have money for upgrades after we research Pillaging. And I would definitely rather go after Legionarys with 6-strength Pillagers than 4-strength Marauders.
     
  17. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    I decided not to take the tech two-fer just yet; we can probably get a better deal sometime soon.

    Early turns: Build workers and explore with horsemen. Sell maps to the Romes and Sassanids for cash, totalling like 25 gold every turn.

    Middle turns: The Sassanids got Map Making and paid us 60g for the world map. Since we can now do so without slowing Pillaging research, I decide to go ahead on the tech two-fer. We buy Writing from West Rome for 240g and sell it plus Contact with Celts to the Franks for Mathematics. We also sell (this is ridiculous if you think about it geographically) Contact with the Anglo-Saxons to the Celts for 25 gold.

    360 AD: The Ostrogoths have Pillaging at monopoly. We could get it for Writing + Mathematics + 70 gold. I take it because we can resell it -- what the heck, we can't sell it to the Sassanids? They don't get the barbarian techs? :mad: Well, we can still resell Pillaging to the Franks for Code of Laws.

    I stopped at 360 AD to even up the turn numbers and plan our next research move, if any. I think we want to accumulate cash, build a dozen or so raiders, then hook up the iron and start upgrading.

    http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/rbc12c-360ad.zip
     
  18. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    We still need about two zillion workers. The horseman in the southwest is fortified where I think we should build our front-line city; that migrant will get there soon. That city can use the cattle to grow to size 2 in five turns, then whip a barracks.

    Grimjack
    T-Hawk
    Abegweit <---- Up
    Ridgelake <---- on deck / out until 2/22
     
  19. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

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    Got it. I'll look at your moves and play tomorrow.
     
  20. Grimjack

    Grimjack Bounty Hunter

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    You dont think we have a good chance at a monopoly on Barbarian Leadership ?
    I would assume the Ostrogoths would go after the offensive unit tech.
    With their deity bonus, the barbarians should get their economy going, and could net us quite a lot of money for upgrades from selling the tech.
    Us actually getting the wonder is doubtful however. It is very good, but I cannot see any city that we can afford to tie up in wonder building for a long time.

    Grimjack
     

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