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RBC14A - Age of Discovery - Portugal, Sid

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by T-hawk, May 18, 2004.

  1. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    OK, here we go.

    Diplo check: Entire world is at peace. Spain and England are up by three and four techs, France and Holland are even with us.

    The flavor tech cost bug strikes again; England is offering her monopoly on Protestantism to us for 12 gold. :crazyeye: Question: do we want to revolt to Protestantism?

    Catholic Monarchy is the same as standard Monarchy, except that according to the editor, it has war weariness (the Civilopedia doesn't mention that.)

    Protestant Monarchy has the best attributes of both standard Republic and standard Democracy. It has low war weariness and some unit support like standard Republic, but gives faster workers, minimal corruption, and still only 1/turn unit support like standard Democracy. And it has the tile trade bonus of course.

    I think the government change is a no-brainer. We purchase Protestantism for the aforementioned 12 gold and revolt. 2 turns of anarchy - hey, that's right, we're religious.

    Can't resell Protestantism to either France or Spain. Can resell it to Holland, but they don't have anything to offer right now.

    ==========

    1522 AD: We're a Protestant Monarchy. Income jumped from 84 at the beginning of my turn to 129 now - definitely well worth the revolt.

    I agree with Jabah that the city of Ceuta needs to grow up now; but it should be an economic producer, not a military barracks. It starts an aqueduct.


    1525 AD: Buy Gunpowder for about 2000 gold total from England, and three-fer it to France for Banking and Holland for Naval Ordnance. England has a monopoly on Colonization.

    Little else happened. Just building cities and such.

    Notes for next leader:

    - Belem had a granary rushed, and can make +5 food surplus. This will be our worker farm. Let it build the current pikeman while it's growing up to size 6, then farm workers. Make sure to keep irrigating its plains.

    - The carrack way out west is picking up map information for sale. Remember that carracks don't sink in ocean. There are a few carracks around, fortified, that didn't have anything to do.

    - I just realized something. We can cram in multiple cities around every gold/gems/silver resource, and ALL of those cities could then build the appropriate mine. Should we take advantage of this?

    - A three-fer is available, Piracy for Fortification for Colonization, but we aren't anywhere near able to afford it. All the Europeans besides us do have Colonization.

    - Rio will have enough shields for the Colonial Capital in about 10 turns, but it might be a few more turns after that before we can afford the tech. Just leave it on its Palace prebuild until we can. Once this gets built, we should be in really good shape.

    - I accidentally clicked ahead to 1531 AD before saving. Nothing has been done on the 1531 AD turn.
     
  2. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    T-hawk << Just Played
    Speaker << UP NOW
    Jabah << On Deck
    Arathorn
     

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  3. Jabah

    Jabah Emperor

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    I would think that this should be an exploit if the cities are built just for this purpose. On the other hand, I can imagine having 2 cities sharing a resource if there is a good (other) reason for building the second city (river, sea, food ressource, not enough space...). In that case I think we should limit ourself to only 1 mine/camp/whateverthename for 1 ressource.

    In a certain way I did the sharing for the 2 'Gems' cities south except that there are 2 gems around so we can pretend each city has it own instead of having 1 gem for both cities.

    Jabah
     
  4. Speaker

    Speaker Deity

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    If Jabah would like to jump in and play his skipped turn before I do, that would be ok with me. I'm not sure I'll be able to get it for a day or two anyways.
     
  5. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    Jabah was never skipped. Arathorn was.

    So Arathorn, if you're back and want to make up that skipped turn, go ahead. Either Arathorn or Speaker please play when you can. :goodjob:
     
  6. Jabah

    Jabah Emperor

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    My turn was never skipped, I came back before Charis decide he finally won't be able to play

    I don't know where this 'turn order' came from. But since I have just played the previous round, I think Arathorn should play (if he can).

    Jabah
     
  7. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

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    See it. "Got it" but there's pretty much no way I can play tonight -- I'm too beat from a day of travel and the vacation and everything. Definitely not in any shape to give a Sid game the attention it deserves. Tomorrow, though, I should be ready to go and will take my 10 turns then.

    Arathorn
     
  8. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

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    Pretty boring turns, mainly. I sold maps to everybody every turn. I'd usually get either one or two gold from each other player -- very boring but reasonably productive. Our tech deficit got pretty significant, but I made a bit of a catch-up at the end.

    Right away on the inherited turn, I lost a carrack to a privateer. The days of long, safe voyages are over. We need to protect important ships and/or get a fleet out ourselves.

    I also disbanded nearly all of our explorer force. They were costing us one gpt maintenance and most of them were serving no purpose whatsoever. There's one who still remains, watching the French city in Africa -- just keeping an eye on our main colonial holdings.

    The highlight of the early turns was finally destroying a barb camp defended by an archer. On the inherited turn, I'd attacked with a vet longbow, who only promoted the archer to regular. It took quite a while to get our MDI in Africa to the location and healed. Good thing he was a 5/5 as he lost the first 3 battles immediately before rallying to win. 25 gold didn't hurt a lot either. That was in turn 7...1537. Mostly moving workers and LOTS of selling maps.

    1537, too, saw some native civs with some cash. I spared not a single thought about selling them techs for as little as 20 gold and 4 gpt. Once they could scrape up some cash, they got a tech. No questions asked.

    Twas a bit worrisome interturn, too. A French privateer came out and sank an English ship, spawning a privateer. The spawned privateer sailed out and caught a carrack of ours who was safe from the normal range of a single privateer. Our guy died, spawning another privateer, who went on and conquered the whole ocean!!! Oh, no, wait, he didn't quite reach the next English ship.

    Bunches of privateer battles going on soon thereafter. We avoid as much as possible.

    1539 was the big year. I smelled techs but they were going fast. The opportunity wouldn't last very long.

    Steal from England gets us Metallurgy for under 800 gold. WM + Metallurgy + 24 gpt + 5 gold to France gets us Fortification. Metallurgy + 14 gpt + 3 gold to Netherlands gets us Colonization. We have Fortification and the Dutch don't. They have Piracy and we don't...but no deal was possible. I couldn't sweeten it enough. Rio de Janerio (however that's spelled) switches to the Colonial Capital, due in 2 turns, so on the passed interturn. It should be quite valuable once it completes.

    Mining is out there and a Piracy/Mining twofer once some big gpt deals expire (about halfway into the next rain) will be huge. Mining opens us up for some serious treasures, which we need like 10 turns ago.

    That was all the excitement for me. 1540 was uneventful, bar some fantastic map-trading, which is about all dried up, as we're about out of squares to "discover".

    I have no idea on the roster....

    Arathorn
     
  9. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    Good progress, and great trading. Yeah, steals will be the way to go to get tech, I think. The Colonial Capital should go a long way towards keeping our economy competitive. Good idea to disband the explorers.

    :lol: at the Privateer chain reaction :D

    Africa doesn't have a whole heck of a lot of treasure sources - I think we've got two gold mines and two gems - but that's still 4 treasures every 5 turns once all the mines get going, or only 50 turns or so till victory. At least as long as our treasure shippers don't get smacked by privateers. Do remember that the resources need to be connected by road to build the mines; the gems and western gold already were on my turn; just make sure the eastern gold gets such.

    T-hawk
    Speaker << UP NOW
    Jabah << On Deck
    Arathorn
     
  10. Speaker

    Speaker Deity

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  11. Speaker

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    IT- Mining is out there, so my goal for these 10 turns will be to secure mining and get mines in each of our cities which can use them. I see two resources in South America that could be ours, so I will also try to grab those as well.

    Hurry a colonist in Luanda to poach some Incan gems.

    1541AD (1): Colonial Capital finishes and our income jumps by around 45 (I think). Pick up a couple workers from the Aztecs for a technology.

    1542AD (2): Pretty uneventful. I guess we can't found cities on forest or something, so it'll be a few turns until my towns can be founded.

    1543AD (3): Benguela founded on spices.

    1544AD (4): Nothing much.

    1545AD (5): Deals expire and I've got some money to work with. 100gpt buys Mining from Spain. Sending them some ivory helps lower the price by 7gpt, but I leave it out of the deal just in case some ship mayhem disrupts our supply. No need to risk our rep for 7gpt. Hmm, mining plus 80gpt is doubtful with the Netherlands for Piracy, so no two-fer is possible (they are about to finish researching it themselves, it turns out). Found Santos near gold in South America. Evidently, the civilopedia is wrong, as it says "The city that builds it must have Gems in its city radius," but it looks more like they have to be connected. This will set us back in Seguro since we have to connect the gold. Shuffle a few units to get some more protection and workers in South America.

    IT- The Aztec order our lonely exploring pikeman to withdraw or declare and I comply, yet they for some bizarre reason, sneak attack him anyways. :confused: I should have disbanded this unit at the beginning of my turn, but I can't say I've seen that before.

    1546AD (6): Found Rio Grande do Sul, poaching an Incan gold resource. Start chopping a forest where we can poach an Incan gems resource. It will be done in 5 turns. Rush two gems mines in South Africa.

    1547AD (7): Rush a goldmine.

    IT- Aztecs finish off the Pikeman in North America. Interesting sight as one Privateer attacks and kills another Privateer.

    1548AD (8): Incan borders expand, so no more poaching is possible.

    1549AD (9): Unload a bunch of units in South America, including several workers.

    IT- France demands our TM and 27 gold and I give it.

    1550AD (10): Nothing much.

    Conclusion- Santos is building a Trace Italienne as a prebuild for a goldmine. I've been building carracks in a couple cities in preparation for treasures, but we should definitely build more frigates to protect them. Be wary of the Aztec war. I'd take peace as soon as we can to avoid a dogpile. Another option is to make an alliance with the Inca, which will protect us. There are a bunch of units en route to Santos, to connect the goldmine and found another city nearby. Now the real game starts. Time to bring home as many treasures as we can.
     
  12. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    Right, you can't build cities on forests in this scenario.

    No two-fer is disappointing, but it was more important to get Mining immediately, I agree. Yes, the resources have to be connected to build mines; I mentioned that in my post right before you played. :p :)

    Agreed on ending the Aztec dogpile threat ASAP, even if we have to pay some gold to do it. I'd rather just end the war than pay the Inca just to get ourselves stuck in war for 20 turns.

    T-hawk
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  13. Speaker

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    Good point T-Hawk. I read it a few days ago but didn't totally reread it before I played. Must have skipped that line. Our workers work incredibly fast anyways (build a road in 1 turn on flatland), so it was a non-issue.
     
  14. Jabah

    Jabah Emperor

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    'Got it'

    Jabah
     
  15. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

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    Good deal on Mining, two bad about the lack of twofer. Did the Netherlands pick up Fortification, too? Wowsers. I was envisioning Mining and Fortification as being plenty to pay for Piracy, but I guess I was wrong. Bummer.

    I just now remembered my colonist sitting on an island with spices waiting for a forest chop to complete. Did that city get founded? Did it start a spice "factory" pretty much right away?

    I also agree with peace ASAP, trying to avoid a dogpile. If Spain were to declare on us, we'd lose our capital very quickly. Sea battles will be important for winning the game, but we can lose it on land easily enough, too.

    Arathorn
     
  16. Doc Tsiolkovski

    Doc Tsiolkovski Deity

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    Note you don't have to connect more than one of each resource, when your cities are connected; no need to road in every city. That's what makes those Carribbean Islands that strong, you can leave most of the Spices alone.
     
  17. Jabah

    Jabah Emperor

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    How lucky :eek:
     
  18. Jabah

    Jabah Emperor

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    General Strategic observation
    If able I think our treasure ship should go slower and safer from port to port.

    - With a 9 moving carrack jumping from city to city, there will be only one major place where our ships coming from most of our colonies might be in danger from privateer : around the canary islands.
    - South America ship will also be in danger. they might have to take some risk, either crossing to south Africa (hoping for no privateer in south Atlantic) or straight to Cape Verde (probably more risky.

    Therefore no need for a huge fleet, just a good task force should be station around Madeira should be enough to cover our ships.

    1550AD (0) - cancel all the colonist building in islands since there is no more good spot
    Several cities are without temple while having good (better) tiles to work in the second ring, change build order. Courthouse are also extremly cheap (30) so I will rush a few of those in some corrupted colonies..
    We also need badly some defence in our new colonies, good thing we can build both pike and musket.

    IT throw all our plans out of the windows, Spain and Aztecs signed an alliance against us ...
    Olinda (South America), Bengala (Caraibe) captured by a Conquistador
    Oporto faced heavy attacks (including invisible ones) and hold thanks to a 1hp MI.
    Santos (Andes) is doomed without defence with a spanish coming

    1551AD (1) the only positive point is the cash coming back...
    Only chance we have (to survive, not to win) is to enrole some usefull allies
    Buy France for 72gpt and England for Ivory+gems+wine+40gpt

    Change a few build order, try (and miss) to bombard the spanish horse, pray and wait

    IT
    Our allies did nothing to help ...
    Santos razed, Oporto lost (while showing good defence), Madeira lost,
    Lots of treasure waiting for us in our colonies...

    1552AD (2) War weariness start hard... lux at 20%
    Lisbon is produicing 4spt (Spanish troops all around)

    IT England buy Iroquois against spain
    We lost Lisbon with some unlucky 'rolls' (reg conquistador against vet pike, but anyway they were too much troops showing.)

    1553AD (3)

    With our rules (no treasure in not continental Capitol) we should not be abble to win. I stop there :
    - to ask if we keep this rule (capital is Ceuta now)
    - no a lot of time for me this WE to continue (also it is also quite depressing game now)

    Comments ?

    Jabah

    PS I might be able to continue (but not much) on sunday late, but if someone wants to play it (to the bitter end), feel free to play now
     
  19. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

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    Ouch. Ummm...what else to say? Ouch.

    I knew that was a concern, but I don't know what we could have done to prevent it. Winning with a capital not in Europe feels like a loss to me, but...

    Well, ouch. T-hawk, what's our captain say?

    Arathorn
     
  20. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    Our captain says that it'd be pointless to continue without cashing in treasures. There's no way we'd ever win doing that, and no point to trying. It's not like we intentionally lost our original capital; it may have been underdefended (especially on Sid) but there's almost no such thing as an adequate defense on Sid.

    So play on, and cash in treasures wherever we can. We'll see how much it feels like a win or a loss once we get done with it. :) I don't think there's a such thing as a bad win on Sid...

    Jabah, please do go ahead and finish your turn. :hammer:
     

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