1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Photobucket has changed its policy concerning hotlinking images and now requires an account with a $399.00 annual fee to allow hotlink. More information is available at: this link.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Dismiss Notice
  7. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

RBD 4: Introduction to Emperor

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Carbon_Copy, Jan 16, 2002.

  1. Carbon_Copy

    Carbon_Copy Elemental

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    623
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    I have seen lots of Regent and Chieftan succession games floating around this forum, but finding a Monarch or higher game is extremely hard to find on this board. So this game I am starting specifically to provide the forum-goers here a chance to try out their skills in a striaghtforward Emperor difficulty succession game.

    I've not yet started the map or played the first handful of turns, but here are the options I will use:

    -Persians (nice ancient era unique unit, plus Scientific and Industrious are two of my favorite traits)

    -Small Map size, max opponents (Will include Babylon and India AND also Aztecs and Germans, other civs will be random)

    -Large pangea landmass, normal climate/temperature, 3 billion year old earth.

    -No victory options disabled.

    First off, let me stress, there is going to be no pressure on anyone, I'd be happy with a loss, provided the players here learn something from it, and there's always RBD 5 or 6 that can be played. So don't be shy, join up (RBDers don't bite...hard ;) )! I'd prefer somewhere between 4 and 6 players.

    After I take the first 40, it will be 20 turns for the rest of the first round, and up to 10-15 for each subsequent turn (less can be played if one so desires). 24 hours to post that you have the game, 48 hours from the time you get the game to post the next turn or you're skipped, though an under 24-hour turnaround from one player to the next would be ideal.

    First turn to be forthcoming tonight, assuming I generate some interest.
     
  2. Jaffa Tamarin

    Jaffa Tamarin Monkey Cult

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    570
    I'll join in :)
     
  3. Zed-F

    Zed-F Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    Messages:
    1,776
    Count me in as well.

    Are you still planning to set barbarians to raging?

    If the map is full of AI empires we will probably have to go for an Ancient era war, which means an early golden age... no help for it I suppose.
     
  4. Sirian

    Sirian Civ Map Programmer

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    3,651
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    I'll play. Small Pangaea with Persians? Does indeed sound like an ancient conquest game. Pray we don't start on top of the Aztecs, though, as they will run circles around us, literally, unless we can plop a whole stack of immortals on top of their capital as our first aggressive move.

    The large landmass is a potential out, though. That much land, it will feel like a larger map than it is.

    And... I can also sit out and give someone else my slot if there is a lot of interest.

    Something I've been contemplating for single player is a tiny map game where I do NOT go for conquest, but have to win the space race, while all the victory conditions are enabled. On Emperor. I have a lot of irons in the fire right now, though, and only so many hours to play and write about it. :)


    - Sirian
     
  5. Carbon_Copy

    Carbon_Copy Elemental

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    623
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Okay, here's the tentative order:

    1. Me (Carbon)
    2. Zed
    3. Sirian
    4. Jaffa

    I ordered this around so that nobody here is directly passing off to or directly receiving from someone that they've passed to or received from before. Also I noticed that Jaffa was on deck for Charis's Musketeer game ("Fetchez la vache!" *moo*), so he probably would appreciate being in the lower half of the order for this one.

    Save file and writeup should be forthcoming tonight, I am still not quite started with the game since I saw Lord of the Rings for the first time today (wowza :eek: )
     
  6. Carbon_Copy

    Carbon_Copy Elemental

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    623
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    I'm not much up for writing in-character summaries. There was plenty of time for it when I was just playing RBD 2 and LK8 (and LK8 wasn't in-character), but now with Infantry, RBD3, RBD4, and LK8 going (and many of the other players in similar positions), writeups will just be the facts, ma'am.

    I created a map with the aforementioned parameters. I forgot to specify what level of Barbarians, and I couldn't decide what to give us, so Barbarians are at Random.

    Our starting location was in the Southeast corner of the map, though how much land is between us and the sea to the south or east has yet to be determined. It's all mountains and hills as far as I've been able to tell, which is good and bad. Bad, because settling in hills surrounded by mountains sucks, and good because our chances for iron deposits (required for Immortals) are going to be very good. I have only made contact with one other civ so far, the Indians. And only because they are almost sitting right on top of us. We might want to remedy that when we get some more developed squares and can pour out Immortals.

    I don't much like the names of Persian towns, so when I founded cities, I just named them after small towns in the county where I live. Go ahead and do whatever for your turns.

    Here's the summary:

    4000
    -Our Capital, Delphi, is founded. This could get confusing if we drew the Greeks as our wildcard opponent.
    -Start research on Iron Working. Dropped science to 20% since we're the first ones to be researching it and it will take 40 turns no matter what.

    3550
    -Delphi's borders expand, allowing a grassland wheat to become available.

    3450
    -Make contact with the Indians. Only techs they have that we don't are ceremonial burial and alphabet, and they don't have masonry (and that's all they'll trade for in return for any of their techs)

    2950
    -Second city, Flora founded.

    2710
    -Years start counting by 40s instead of 50s, Flora finishes Warrior, starts another

    2670
    -EEK! :eek: Indian border appears just to the north of Delphi

    2390
    -Trade 87 gold to the Indians for Alphabet

    2310
    -Found Burlington to our south. I really wanted to settle to the east but there was an Indian warrior wandering in that area and I didn't have a military escort ready, so I went to grab more mountains. It overlaps Delphi a bit, but it's the only habitable square in its area, plus it's on both the coast and a river.

    2270
    -Barbs seen to the south. Burlington's gonna get pillaged, nothing i can do about it.

    2190
    -Burlington pillaged, -33 gold

    2110
    -Oops, played 40 and a half turns, the save file is prior to any unit movement.

    Other notes:

    -Flora's settler I was going to send north to the hills by the coast north of Flora to cut the Indians off. There's a warrior wandering in that area which could be used to garrison in that town, and one of my workers is already building a road in that direction.

    -Due to the minimum science required to be spending something in research changing with Delphi's population, there were some times that there weren't any research bucks going toward Iron working and I didn't notice. So it's still 6 turns away.

    -The other civs are going to have a HUGE tech lead on us. Just don't panic, buy techs from them or research them on the cheap, we'll catch up in the midieval time period.

    -When we find Iron, it's Immortal Time :D. I have a road built up to the Delphi/Bombay border, immortals should make short work of that town if we should attack it.

    -None of the three towns have any buildings, nor have any been whipped (the only costly thing that they were building were settlers, and those always had to wait for the city to grow to size 3 anyhow). Keep with the settler/military production until we are out of territory, then worry about culture.
     
  7. Carbon_Copy

    Carbon_Copy Elemental

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    623
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    For all you Monday morning quarterbacks, here's a save from turn 1.
     
  8. OneInTen

    OneInTen Darkness bound

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2001
    Messages:
    164
    Location:
    brisbane.qld.au
    I'd like to play if you're still accepting players
     
  9. Carbon_Copy

    Carbon_Copy Elemental

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    623
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    I had been hoping for a fifth to show up from somewhere. :)

    The order hasn't been finalized, or even really discussed. I currently have Zed on deck, unless he's too busy right now, in which case the whole thing is up in the air. State your preference and I'll work you in.
     
  10. Zed-F

    Zed-F Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    Messages:
    1,776
    I've got it, and should be able to play tonight.
     
  11. OneInTen

    OneInTen Darkness bound

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2001
    Messages:
    164
    Location:
    brisbane.qld.au
    I don't mind what position I take in the order ... probably the only thing that might make a difference is that being in Australia my timezone probably means when I'm playing is when you're asleep. :)
     
  12. Zed-F

    Zed-F Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    Messages:
    1,776
    2110 BC (0): We seem to be heavy on settlers & light on military, will need to work on that. Not sure if we're going for a despotic whipping game or not, so far will assume not. Delphi changed to Spearman.

    2070 BC (1): Flora completes settler, starts spearman. Warrior exploring west spots Babylonian spearman on mountain. Their military outnumbers us (unsurprisingly), they also have 3 cities, and they have Pottery, The Wheel, Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, and Iron Working, as well as a whack of gold already. Checked India, and they have a similar tech advantage.

    2030 BC (2): Delphi grows to 3 & completes Spearman, but I want to move out the warrior to go exploring India. Raise luxuries to 10% to compensate, and start worker to get pop down before starting a barracks.

    1990 BC (3): Persepolis founded on hills north of Flora, a bit of overlap, but gets borders sealed and is on the water. It will not grow quickly, however, since there's only plains about.

    1950 BC (4): West scouting warrior spots ivory. East scouting warrior locates 2nd Indian city (Madras.) Delphi builds worker, starts barracks.

    1910 BC (5): Burlington builds Warrior, starts Spearman. It's growing too slowly to really be useful right now, needs more good farmland. We discover Iron Working, start Writing. We already have Iron in our road net, under Persepolis, and there is more near Delphi!

    1870 BC (6): Our western Warrior comes across an Aztec Jaguar warrior! Great. They have 3 cities, and all the same techs as the Babylonians and Indians. East exploring warrior spots cultural boundaries of Indian capital Delhi.

    1830 BC (7): Barbarian warrior shows up south of Burlington. Western warrior spots Aztec cultural boundaries.

    1790 BC (8): We expand the palace.

    1750 BC (9): Aztecs are building Oracle. Burlington fights off barbarian warrior. Second barbarian warrior shows up south of Burlington. Persepolis builds a warrior. Babylonians now have 4 cities and are hemming us in on the west (closer than the Aztecs.)

    That's all I have time for. Haven't whipped anything yet either. Delphi will need 20% luxuries soon. Our workers are currently trying to irrigate and road their way toward Flora and Persepolis. We're pretty well boxed in here... good thing we have Immortals. :)


    Anyway, luck to the next player...
     
  13. Carbon_Copy

    Carbon_Copy Elemental

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    623
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Okay, now that Zed has played, it's Sirian's turn. I don't really have much in the way of advice (and you'd probably know what to do better than I, anyhow).

    With the new guy added, the order should go something like this:

    Carbon
    Zed
    Sirian
    Jaffa
    OneInTen

    Unless Jaffa and One want to switch turns.
     
  14. Sirian

    Sirian Civ Map Programmer

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    3,651
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    This is an interesting situation. Jaffa, you've got your hands full consolidating our position. I was handed the keys to an empire with absolutely zero infrastructure, and I have changed that. In fact, I changed it so much, that I did not build a single new military unit on my entire turn. Keep that in mind.

    Inherited Turn: Vetoed the Minimum Science Gambit in favor of break-even research on Writing, now down to 12 turns from 36. (We'll get absolutely slaughtered waiting 40 turns for anything on a small map on Emperor). Bought four techs (Pottery, Wheel, Code, Burial) from our most grumpy neighbor, Babylon, for 90 gold. Attitude improved from Annoyed to Cautious. (Once all the known civs have a tech, its research cost and purchase cost go down, and dang if we didn't NEED these techs in a bad way). Found out why the Indians moved so aggressively to settle Bombay: they have stolen our horse out from under our nose. (If ever we go to war with India, either take Bombay quickly or at least pillage that horse -- it's the only one in the region). Implemented Temple construction in every city.

    Early turns: whipped the temple in Delphi (Any reason for this name choice, Carbon? I feel schizo wondering why my Persian capital is named after a Greek city. :) ). Continued the VERY solid plan of bringing irrigation out to Persepolis. (Nice going on that move). Whipped temples in the rest of the cities. Barbarians coming up from the south were allowed to attack Burlington to their heart's delight. Our warriors there have become veteran as a result.

    Middle turns: Changed our largest two cities over to settler production. Continued explorations with our three roaming warrior parties. Two of them were soon turned to circle back and explore potential settlement areas, and to meet up with the settlers soon to be produced. Bought Mysticism from the Indians for 26 gold. Aztecs researched Writing, then brokered it, dropping the cost dramatically. We researched writing as a result, some thirty turns before my predecessor's arrangement would have had.

    See, here's the thing: the min science gambit is only good in a few situations, since the latest patch when it was rebalanced, backing off the can't-fail option that it used to be. If you start isolated and must get to mapmaking in a hurry, it can work. If you want to get to monarchy or republic in a hurry, it can help on those two techs, especially on larger maps. But you ONLY want to run min science for cutting edge tech nobody has yet, or if you have absolutely dismal commerce and food (like the fourth Apolyton tournament scenerio). One other situation where it's good: just to gather up cash, if you are hopelessly behind, to buy obsolete techs faster than you could research them. Running high cash is a great way to catch up, but it doesn't work out for holding even or taking the lead. Occasionally, min science on the Invention line while all the AI's are busy on the Theology line can pay off handsomely, but not on small maps. Tech prices just run too low.

    Late turns: whipped a granary at Burlington. This city could be used to whip barracks and immortals, or it could be used to crank out a bunch of workers (I didn't build any of those either). Built walls at Flora, building walls at Persepolis. Settler heading east encountered roaming barb warriors, so I plunked him down on the river, undefended, knowing that he would raid the new town on the next turn (the CharisGhandi Gambit). Decided this was a grand time to found embassies with Babylon and Azteca, dropping our treasury from 84 gold to 2. Next turn, Pasargadae raided, 1 gold stolen. Heh heh. :) The warrior in the area is still a couple turns away, and the town was raided a second time, at the lost of another gold. Susa founded in the south, near a spice. Worker dispatched to bring spices online soon. Whipped a granary at Delphi. Started road to Pasargadae.

    Final turns: warrior attacks and clears barb camp near Pasargadae, barely surviving. A couple of barb horsies attack Burlington from the south (that's one threat I ignored my whole turn). Whipped a barracks in Delphi. (I know, I know, I'm the quintessential "don't whip your capital" advocate, but this is Emperor and there's a civ on our doorstep). Babylonians start the Pyramids, but their capital is size 1 and they have no wheat/cattle, so it will be a while for them. Still ten turns away from Literature. The AI civs now all have mapmaking, so I made eleventh hour trades with each of them. From the Indians, I got Math, territory map and change, from the Babs I got Horseback Riding, from the Aztecs I got Philosophy. Each for our world map, plus some change to the Aztecs. NINE techs acquired on my turn.


    Analysis: I got us the jump on cultural development, mostly caught us up on tech, and left the door open for either war or peace. I staved off AI aggression mostly through trade deals and embassies, and staying out of their lands. All three are polite to us as I step down. The two new cities should rushbuild temples asap: support them with veteran military from main cities, rather than building their own. We need to explore and settle the south, lest the Indians grab past us and threaten Pasargadae with cultural pressure. On the other hand, we are already set to apply cultural pressure to Bombay, and COULD win it over, if we whip libraries at the three surrounding cities at the earliest reasonable chance. (Or maybe not whip at Delphi, if its shield rate is high enough on its own).

    Our military situation may LOOK thin, but that's because I don't have another ten turns. Success on emperor for me has come in bending my empire to specific goals, leaning far in pressing toward those goals at the expense of other activity, then switching goals as appropriate, so that I bounce from extreme to extreme, rather than trying to keep everything rounded all the way through. As such, the situation is now ripe in the larger cities for barracks and VETERAN units. Regulars beat not having units, in a pinch, but they are vastly less effective in combat (they can spare two hits, vets can spare three, that makes vets 150% as effective, and are closer to elite and the chance for Leaders). So I have built infrastructure on these 20 turns, and set up for cranking vet units in the larger cities soon. Flora is set to whip its barracks next turn. Persepolis can complete its wall, then whip a barracks and start cranking spearmen. Burlington could be used for military, or for workers -- it has a granary. Our capital is totally primed to crank military quickly for the next thousand years. :)

    We COULD try for the Pyramids, but we do not know what the two MIA civs are up to. None of the four we know about could beat us to them, but that unknown from the other two, plus the lack of backup on Colossus/Lighthouse and the low yield of the Great Library on small maps, leads me to think we'll be better off to crank up our military and prepare for war with India.

    The Babs are stretched thin and their home is far from us. I do not fear them. Don't cave to their threats. We have walls going up on our border with them and two of our cities over there are built on hills. And we can build Immortals, so... if they come calling for free favors, send em packing. The Aztecs, on the other hand, should not be trifled with. We don't have horses available (yet) so that compounds the danger. They have simply endless jags running all over the place, many now elite from hunting down all kinds of barb camps. If our Aztec friends demand tribute, and its not too unreasonable, we might want to accomodate them a bit. In any case, I rushed us WAY ahead in the infrastructure department, and with technology compared to where we were, made some land grabs, and we now must catch up in the military arena.

    Finally: if we get to Literature first, I recommend you broker the devil out of it, starting with Babs (want them to pay the most, unless they are broke at the time). Why? Well, I know I'm a hard advocate of not brokering away a tech lead. Tech LEAD, being the operative word there. This is not a lead yet. This is running behind but catching up. Broker it while its at its most valuable, with Mapmaking being the top priority on what to ask for. Take tech, maps, cash, gold-per-turn, in that order. Have to sell to everyone on the same turn, and don't do it between turns if they ask to talk.

    Good luck, Jaffa.


    - Sirian
     
  15. OneInTen

    OneInTen Darkness bound

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2001
    Messages:
    164
    Location:
    brisbane.qld.au
    Just a quick note - I'm going to be away tomorrow (Sunday for me) and with being at work Monday during the day, this means I can't play until about 48 hours from now. I was hoping Jaffa would have played by now and I could take my turn, but oh well, such is life.

    So if this is a problem I don't mind if you skip me this turn. Hopefully though I can get to play on Monday and it'll all be fine. ;)
     
  16. Carbon_Copy

    Carbon_Copy Elemental

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    623
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Whoever of Jaffa or One gets time to play first, post up and run for it, and that'll be the order for the rest of the rounds.

    Sirian, the reason I named our capital Delphi was because that's the county seat of Carroll County, Indiana (and would thus be conferred the honor of the capital in my own little fantasy world), and to be honest, I've never played as Greece before, and had forgotten that it was a name the Greeks use until I was writing the post. I have lots of alternative names if the name collision is a big enough confusion for us (and will definitely do so if the wildcard opponent is Greece). Still apparently a bit of time left before the turn gets around to me, so feel free to weigh in. I still hate the names of Persian towns, though. Even just naming them the names of Greek towns throughout would be a vast improvement over the current roster, except for Persepolis, but that's because it's derived from, of all things, Greek.
     
  17. smegged

    smegged Psi Cop

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    413
    Location:
    Brisbane, Queensland
    At the same time that you guys venture into the world of Civ 3 Emperor difficulty, I myself have just completed and won my first Emperor game in Civ 2. Take it as an omen :).
     
  18. Carlie

    Carlie Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2002
    Messages:
    1
    Just wanted to drop in after lurking for a while and say hello, and good luck. I haven't played a succession game before but I would certainly be interested when the next one starts. I am currently playing one down from Emperor though (Monarch? but I always think of it as 'King' difficulty because of too much time spent playing Civ2!). Lots of old habits to unlearn.

    Found my way here following a link from Sirian's Civ3 page. Really sorry to see the D2 page finish but was delighted to see you have started a Civ3 page instead!

    I have played more Civ2 than anything but am getting into Civ3 now. So far my favourite Civ is the Egyptians, just love that combination of religous and fast workers. In fact I almost think those fast workers are too powerful.

    Anyway, keep up the posting, it makes for great reading and good luck on Emperor difficulty!

    Now, must get back to finish off the Romans with my War Chariots before they discover Iron working!

    - Jon
     
  19. Jaffa Tamarin

    Jaffa Tamarin Monkey Cult

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    570
    0) 1250BC Hmmm. We have unconnected iron near Delphi. Where's our iron coming from? Okay, it's underneath Persepolis. There's unclaimed iron in hills near Madras which I think we should grab before the Indians get it, so switch to settler production in Delphi. We are broke. Very well, let's make us even broker. Can get literature in 9 turns at -2/turn instead of 10 at -1/turn.

    1) 1225BC Whip barracks from Flora, start spearman. Unrest in Delphi (already? Damn!) Persepolis finishes walls, starts catapult.

    3) 1175BC Indians are building the Pyramids. They also have a settler going east from Bombay.

    5) 1125BC Delphi finishes its settler, starts on spearman.

    6) 1100BC Somebody discovered literature before us :(

    7) 1075BC Aztecs are only local Civ without literature. They won't give us any tech for it. Bah. Sell it to them for 43 gold. Start researching construction. Spices from Susa are distributed throughout the land :)

    8) 1050BC Our roving warrior reaches the end of the world!

    9) 1025BC Arbela founded to steal iron from the Indians.

    10) 1000BC Road to Pasargadae completed.

    11) 975BC First catapult completed.

    12) 950BC Aztec galley sighted north of Persepolis. Burlington attacked by barbarian horseman (again).

    13) 925BC Babylon comes calling and demands 20 gold and territory map as a peace offering. Piffle. Seeing how weak our military still is, I agree to their terms. Also send along the address of a good barber. Man, that guy is ugly. Aztecs finish building Oracle, start on Pyramids.

    14) 900BC Indian troops trample all over our territory around Arbela.

    18) 800BC Everybody discovers Construction. Drat. Seeing as how we have the entire world supply of iron, and nothing else tradeable, I give iron to Indians for Mapmaking, Currency and 29 gold. Burlington finishes barracks, starts harbor.

    Arbela can whip its temple in 2 turns.

    Settler from Delphi can grab dyes from Babylon (west) or India (east), or head into unexplored territory (or you can change production to something else :) )

    If Babylon complains about our warrior near Lagash, it's their fault! They put the town on top of him!
     
  20. Jaffa Tamarin

    Jaffa Tamarin Monkey Cult

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    570

Share This Page