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RBD12 v2.0 - Roman Conquest!
- Thread starter Sirian
- Start date
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Sure sure, blame me for your woes. 
Some of you seem to have overlooked, forgotten about, or disbelieved the scenerio parameters. The only thing I toyed with here is the map. Now THAT... may hold some surprises.
- Sirian
Some of you seem to have overlooked, forgotten about, or disbelieved the scenerio parameters.
The only thing I toyed with here is the map. Now THAT... may hold some surprises.- Sirian
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
I'm very sorry - how could I ever distrust our good friend Sirian? 
Congrats on the GOTM win as well; I think I will win also, but snagging the UN may be a bit iffy.
Congrats on the GOTM win as well; I think I will win also, but snagging the UN may be a bit iffy.
meldor
Deity
Meldor the insane has managed to grab the throne of Rome by threatening the Senate with death by PROD.
Pre-turn - Leave everything as it is.
Veii finishes a warrior, I start a settler. If we are going to finish our expansion befroe someone else land here it will need to be quick.
1) 1225 BC - We finish Iron Working and start on the cheapest tech Mysticism. Up Science, it is due in 5
2) 1200 BC - Cumae is founded. There is Iron one moutain outside its borders, it starts on a warrior, with temple to be next.
3) 1175 BC - Rome finishes its settler, starts another.
4) 1150 BC - Roman settler is loaded onto the galley! What is Meldor crazy?
5) 1125 BC - Galley move and drops off settler. But where, and why?
6) 1100 BC - Neapolis is founded on the Egyptian island. It is within range of the fish and after building a warrior and temple, will have Gems within its borders. It is also in a spot we won't have to kill it once we take over Eygpt. Time will tell if this gambit is weed indeed. Personnally I like it, three luxes without having to pay for them and a ready made base to move troops in without getting Cleo worked up (until it is too late). I thought about naming it Meldor's Madness......Oh, we also finish Mysticism and start on Masonry, again the cheapest tech.
7) 1075 BC - Galley moves, Meldor sleeps
8) 1050 BC - Veii finishes its Settler and starts another. Both Rome and Veii can now pump out Settlers at will. After Meldors colony gambit several settlers will be nice tro finish off our island. Then military.
9) 1025 BC - Rome finishes settler and starts another. These last tow settlers building are probably with one more the last we will need for this island.
10) 1000 BC - After too much time with the happy juice, Meldor wanders off and gets lost the mountains. Maybe things will calm done in Rome now!
BTW, Cleo still want highway robbery prices for techs, although there is a border now visible to the west and contact with what appears to be the Greeks is forthcoming. Cleo is also gracious, does she know something we don't, or is she just amused by Meldor's madness?
Save File
Pre-turn - Leave everything as it is.
Veii finishes a warrior, I start a settler. If we are going to finish our expansion befroe someone else land here it will need to be quick.
1) 1225 BC - We finish Iron Working and start on the cheapest tech Mysticism. Up Science, it is due in 5
2) 1200 BC - Cumae is founded. There is Iron one moutain outside its borders, it starts on a warrior, with temple to be next.
3) 1175 BC - Rome finishes its settler, starts another.
4) 1150 BC - Roman settler is loaded onto the galley! What is Meldor crazy?
5) 1125 BC - Galley move and drops off settler. But where, and why?
6) 1100 BC - Neapolis is founded on the Egyptian island. It is within range of the fish and after building a warrior and temple, will have Gems within its borders. It is also in a spot we won't have to kill it once we take over Eygpt. Time will tell if this gambit is weed indeed. Personnally I like it, three luxes without having to pay for them and a ready made base to move troops in without getting Cleo worked up (until it is too late). I thought about naming it Meldor's Madness......Oh, we also finish Mysticism and start on Masonry, again the cheapest tech.
7) 1075 BC - Galley moves, Meldor sleeps
8) 1050 BC - Veii finishes its Settler and starts another. Both Rome and Veii can now pump out Settlers at will. After Meldors colony gambit several settlers will be nice tro finish off our island. Then military.
9) 1025 BC - Rome finishes settler and starts another. These last tow settlers building are probably with one more the last we will need for this island.
10) 1000 BC - After too much time with the happy juice, Meldor wanders off and gets lost the mountains. Maybe things will calm done in Rome now!
BTW, Cleo still want highway robbery prices for techs, although there is a border now visible to the west and contact with what appears to be the Greeks is forthcoming. Cleo is also gracious, does she know something we don't, or is she just amused by Meldor's madness?
Save File
meldor
Deity
and shiny objests:
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
I like the idea a lot Meldor: any time we can secure both a new source of luxuries and a forward base for invasion in the same city, it's worth the risk. But since this is a tiny map, and the optimal city number is only 12, we need to be careful not to found too many cities.
Seeing as how this is about the best comment one can get in a succession game, I will take it gladly.
Seeing as how this is about the best comment one can get in a succession game, I will take it gladly.
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Meldor: bold move. That colony has 7 pressure on it, and is right next to the enemy capital. Could be tough to hold, as even a temple would only remove 1, maybe 2, pressure. Very risky, but could pay off handsomely if it works out. Building right across from Veii would have nabbed one gem with a lot less pressure and even distance between capitals, but I admit with less benefit than the site you chose. Good luck with this gambit!
Sullla: I popped 16 huts, got a maps, a conscript warrior, one tech, and 13 abandoned villages, in that order. My second city was founded in 2390BC. You got within a few techs of the lead? I was behind by a whole era or more through the whole game and came within a few turns of an AI completing a launch. When it's over for you, try replaying without that free settler at the start and see how it goes for you.
- Sirian
Sullla: I popped 16 huts, got a maps, a conscript warrior, one tech, and 13 abandoned villages, in that order. My second city was founded in 2390BC. You got within a few techs of the lead? I was behind by a whole era or more through the whole game and came within a few turns of an AI completing a launch. When it's over for you, try replaying without that free settler at the start and see how it goes for you.
- Sirian
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Originally posted by Sirian
Sullla: I popped 16 huts, got a maps, a conscript warrior, one tech, and 13 abandoned villages, in that order. My second city was founded in 2390BC. You got within a few techs of the lead? I was behind by a whole era or more through the whole game and came within a few turns of an AI completing a launch. When it's over for you, try replaying without that free settler at the start and see how it goes for you.
Sirian: I'm 100% convinced I would have had no shot without my incredible fortune of an earlier settler.
Starting with two settlers, like the AI does on Deity, probably makes my game uncomparable with other who didn't have that fortune (my second city was built in 3750BC, thanks to the hut). One thing I'd like to know is how you were able to catch up on tech; I've fallen behind at various points but was only ("only"
) about 12 back at the worst point, and rarely more than 4 or 5 back. I understand the idea (probably necessity) of starting a war between the AI civs on Deity so they go communist, but I still find it hard to believe that they didn't build a spaceship if so far ahead. Were you sabotaging their production on spaceship parts, or are they really so dumb as to build nothing but military? I am planning on triggering a war between the #1 AI civ versus the #2, 3, and 4 ones in the near future, but I need to get some infantry and not warriors/spearmen in my border cities first! 
meldor
Deity
Sirian: The other side would have had more squares within Egypts control. The only square on that was available, closer to our capital and still getting the gems, would have had one of its primary nine squares that would have been shared with Elephantine. My Gut feel was that with almost the same number of squares of pressure, primary squares would matter more, but there is no bases except experience for that. I have had cities flip to me right next to the AI capital and away from mine, if I could take some of the primary squares from them.
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Meldor, I agree, the other side is worse. I'm not suggesting the other side. There's a tile in the middle, sticking out past the gems toward Veii, that's a barren little grass tile. THAT would have been a very sad little city, but it would have one gem in range and only three pressure, and closer to the capital. If you end up having your gambit city flip to Cleo, you'll be kicking yourself for it. But... if it works out, then it was a Bold, Clever and Wondrous move on your part. Either way, an interesting gambit!
Sullla: let's talk GOTM7 in some other thread, if you want. Not going to hijack this one, and NOT wanting to see it slapped with that ridiculous spoiler disclaimer in the title like your Boatless Journey.
- Sirian
Sullla: let's talk GOTM7 in some other thread, if you want. Not going to hijack this one, and NOT wanting to see it slapped with that ridiculous spoiler disclaimer in the title like your Boatless Journey.
- Sirian
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
I apologize for mentioning the GOTM discussion in this thread; it shall be brought up no more to avoid an off-topic debate.
meldor
Deity
Sirian: I thought about that spot for about 10 microseconds. It had less pressure but was too close to Veii for me tastes. I must admit that I had not considered the fact that you can abandon a city a lot easier under the new rules. I really ony condisered it form the aspect of long term growth. When we take the whole island it may still be better to abandon this city for corruption prurposes.
If this gambit works out (and I readily admit the risks), it may be a case of the human learning a trick form the AI. Since we are the only civ (that we know) with Mapmaking, we are the only civ that can currently create those irrating little cities on that last little slice that wasn't settled. It is too little for Cleo to start a war over, but a blight on her landscape none the less. Besides, with Charis on the sidelines, we all have to step up and make the bold moves. BTW, I hope all is well with him and he can return as soon as possible, if only to hand out the weed.
If this gambit works out (and I readily admit the risks), it may be a case of the human learning a trick form the AI. Since we are the only civ (that we know) with Mapmaking, we are the only civ that can currently create those irrating little cities on that last little slice that wasn't settled. It is too little for Cleo to start a war over, but a blight on her landscape none the less. Besides, with Charis on the sidelines, we all have to step up and make the bold moves. BTW, I hope all is well with him and he can return as soon as possible, if only to hand out the weed.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 19,922
One thought about that city - Don't let it grow to unhappy.
I have had cities stuck inside my borders forever - the turn they grow to a larger size - culture flip to me.
Since unhappy people are a factor in the flip check - avoid them.
This city is to valueable as a jumping point into the Egyptian lands....
I have had cities stuck inside my borders forever - the turn they grow to a larger size - culture flip to me.
Since unhappy people are a factor in the flip check - avoid them.
This city is to valueable as a jumping point into the Egyptian lands....
Brief write up...
Domestic: Why is it in every game I play I feel like I'm the only person in the world (besides Sirian) that actually builds workers??? Is it that hard to understand that cities with no improved tiles in their radius are completely useless? Land grab is all well and good, but we have to balance settlers with workers or we may as well not bother founding the cities as they won't be able to do anything. I expand our worker count from 2 to 7 during my tenure, and we still need more to irrigate this arid rock we call home -- so don't neglect to build workers from time to time, especially at Rome, Veii, and Pompeii! In other news, I found Pompeii and Pisae, and send a settler out towards our last city site on our island. Our people want the Forbidden Palace already, big surprise. I cancel the warrior at Neapolis (aka gambit-ville) and start it on a temple -- that will have to be whipped if we want it to have the desired effect.
DON'T be too quick to hook up our iron! We want to build lots of warriors we can upgrade to Legions before we hook it up and lose our ability to build cheap upgradable troops.
Military: I brought one of our Galleys back from exploring to Veii to be a troop shuttle to Neapolis for when we go after Egypt, and shuttled a warrior over there to replace the one I cancelled building. I also built a few more warriors in between workers. We should ship a worker over to Neapolis at some point once we've got a few more to clear some jungle so it can grow and connect up some gems. We'll also need a harbour at Neapolis and somewhere on our island so we can ship lux/resources around as well. If Neapolis is going to be a forward base, a barracks would also be handy...
Foreign: We now have maps of all the AI civs except for one (Zulu), and are fully caught up in tech. There are a couple contact-blocks: the East block consists of Greece, Babylon, Iroquois, and English, and the West block consists of Aztecs and Egyptians. China's only got contact with us, and the Zulu don't have contact with anyone. I'd prefer to try to keep these groups separate as long as possible, but everyone has mapmaking now (except the Zulu?) so contact is inevitable sooner or later. If you see that contact is likely to occur between two groups (especially between the East and West blocks) then see if you can sell contact first. Also, we are the exclusive owners of everyone's world maps, so the same deal goes as for contact -- this is a valuable commodity and it is worth lots of cash if we go to sell it, plus denying it to the AI civs makes it harder for them to contact one another, so consider carefully if you're thinking about selling it... but if the AI civs contact one another, they'll just swap maps anyway, so we need to broker it before then.
Science: We are researching Republic at 10% rate (40 turns) -- we could bump it up but (a) we're going to need cash for warrior upgrades soon, and (b) right now max rate will give it to us in 27 turns anyway. The 10% is a hedge against the AI not researching it soon enough, we will probably buy it from them before that and possibly broker it around, so you could go all the way to zero, but I recommend leaving it at 10% in case the AI goes for Math, Currency, and Construction first, as seems likely. Republic seems like our best bet for government since (a) we don't expect wars against more than one opponent at a time (island hopping one island at a time), (b) we have lots of lux available and more as we capture more islands, and (c) Republic = more cash for warrior upgrades...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/rbd12-v2-romans-750bc.zip
Domestic: Why is it in every game I play I feel like I'm the only person in the world (besides Sirian) that actually builds workers??? Is it that hard to understand that cities with no improved tiles in their radius are completely useless? Land grab is all well and good, but we have to balance settlers with workers or we may as well not bother founding the cities as they won't be able to do anything. I expand our worker count from 2 to 7 during my tenure, and we still need more to irrigate this arid rock we call home -- so don't neglect to build workers from time to time, especially at Rome, Veii, and Pompeii! In other news, I found Pompeii and Pisae, and send a settler out towards our last city site on our island. Our people want the Forbidden Palace already, big surprise. I cancel the warrior at Neapolis (aka gambit-ville) and start it on a temple -- that will have to be whipped if we want it to have the desired effect.
DON'T be too quick to hook up our iron! We want to build lots of warriors we can upgrade to Legions before we hook it up and lose our ability to build cheap upgradable troops.
Military: I brought one of our Galleys back from exploring to Veii to be a troop shuttle to Neapolis for when we go after Egypt, and shuttled a warrior over there to replace the one I cancelled building. I also built a few more warriors in between workers. We should ship a worker over to Neapolis at some point once we've got a few more to clear some jungle so it can grow and connect up some gems. We'll also need a harbour at Neapolis and somewhere on our island so we can ship lux/resources around as well. If Neapolis is going to be a forward base, a barracks would also be handy...
Foreign: We now have maps of all the AI civs except for one (Zulu), and are fully caught up in tech. There are a couple contact-blocks: the East block consists of Greece, Babylon, Iroquois, and English, and the West block consists of Aztecs and Egyptians. China's only got contact with us, and the Zulu don't have contact with anyone. I'd prefer to try to keep these groups separate as long as possible, but everyone has mapmaking now (except the Zulu?) so contact is inevitable sooner or later. If you see that contact is likely to occur between two groups (especially between the East and West blocks) then see if you can sell contact first. Also, we are the exclusive owners of everyone's world maps, so the same deal goes as for contact -- this is a valuable commodity and it is worth lots of cash if we go to sell it, plus denying it to the AI civs makes it harder for them to contact one another, so consider carefully if you're thinking about selling it... but if the AI civs contact one another, they'll just swap maps anyway, so we need to broker it before then.
Science: We are researching Republic at 10% rate (40 turns) -- we could bump it up but (a) we're going to need cash for warrior upgrades soon, and (b) right now max rate will give it to us in 27 turns anyway. The 10% is a hedge against the AI not researching it soon enough, we will probably buy it from them before that and possibly broker it around, so you could go all the way to zero, but I recommend leaving it at 10% in case the AI goes for Math, Currency, and Construction first, as seems likely. Republic seems like our best bet for government since (a) we don't expect wars against more than one opponent at a time (island hopping one island at a time), (b) we have lots of lux available and more as we capture more islands, and (c) Republic = more cash for warrior upgrades...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/rbd12-v2-romans-750bc.zip
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 19,922
Neapolis has 16 turns to growth, 46 to temple. I predict it flips before the temple unless we stop growth.
@Zed-F - Please don't lump me in the never build workers list. Although my ten where to early to build any (just 2 cities) - check out any of my LK games, and you will find I have build plenty of them.
@Zed-F - Please don't lump me in the never build workers list. Although my ten where to early to build any (just 2 cities) - check out any of my LK games, and you will find I have build plenty of them.
Don't worry, LK, I don't keep a "list" of players that don't build workers.
It does seem to be something that a lot of players forget, though. Neither Meldor nor Architect built any, and while Sulla built one, he seemed more concerned with preventing the AI civs from setting on our island, despite the fact that no-one other than us had mapmaking yet, let alone a galley.
I am also amazed that it took until my second turn to found Pompeii, despite the fact that it's the only city we have other than Veii and Rome with any grassland and thus any potential to grow before its lands get irrigated, and despite the fact that it's the only city on our entire island with a bonus food resource. Antium has been a complete waste of time (until now, we finally have some irrigated plains over there,) we would have been much better off building Pompeii and cranking some workers before even trying to settle Antium. As for Cumae, well and good it's on a river... but that's meaningless if we don't have any workers to irrigate the plains. Cumae is a good site for long-term growth, but not short-term growth (again, it's better now that we have some workers in the area.) Cumae should have followed immediately after Pompeii in terms of city founding priority order, and Antium after Cumae, rather than the other way around.
Sorry for lapsing into Training Day mode, I know some of you don't need it, but hopefully some good will come out of it for those that do!
It does seem to be something that a lot of players forget, though. Neither Meldor nor Architect built any, and while Sulla built one, he seemed more concerned with preventing the AI civs from setting on our island, despite the fact that no-one other than us had mapmaking yet, let alone a galley.
I am also amazed that it took until my second turn to found Pompeii, despite the fact that it's the only city we have other than Veii and Rome with any grassland and thus any potential to grow before its lands get irrigated, and despite the fact that it's the only city on our entire island with a bonus food resource. Antium has been a complete waste of time (until now, we finally have some irrigated plains over there,) we would have been much better off building Pompeii and cranking some workers before even trying to settle Antium. As for Cumae, well and good it's on a river... but that's meaningless if we don't have any workers to irrigate the plains. Cumae is a good site for long-term growth, but not short-term growth (again, it's better now that we have some workers in the area.) Cumae should have followed immediately after Pompeii in terms of city founding priority order, and Antium after Cumae, rather than the other way around.
Sorry for lapsing into Training Day mode, I know some of you don't need it, but hopefully some good will come out of it for those that do!
Maybe you weren't paying attention to the early game but when I decided to found Antium, there was much speculation that Sirian had mucked with the barbarian settings. Plus, the current site for Pompeii had a barbarian camp very close and we had one warrior.
When the settler popped, I choose to put him in the least likely place to get killed on the way to being founded and that was Antium. So while it isn't the ultimate next city site, that's not always the only factor used to make the decision on where to found. Its was the best site at the time, its doesn't overlapp improperly, it has access to the sea and will be an important city by mid game. That's much more important than if it got killed trying to found pompeii before the barbarians where eliminated.
Maybe I should have waited to build an escort, but I'm sure that would have drawn critics from the "your expanding to slow camp."
I prefer to buy my workers from the AI in the early turns, even for tech as this screws them and helps us. If you check every turn all contacts you will get plenty of (half speed, I know) workers and don't have to kill your overall production over creating workers.
When the settler popped, I choose to put him in the least likely place to get killed on the way to being founded and that was Antium. So while it isn't the ultimate next city site, that's not always the only factor used to make the decision on where to found. Its was the best site at the time, its doesn't overlapp improperly, it has access to the sea and will be an important city by mid game. That's much more important than if it got killed trying to found pompeii before the barbarians where eliminated.
Maybe I should have waited to build an escort, but I'm sure that would have drawn critics from the "your expanding to slow camp."
I prefer to buy my workers from the AI in the early turns, even for tech as this screws them and helps us. If you check every turn all contacts you will get plenty of (half speed, I know) workers and don't have to kill your overall production over creating workers.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 19,922
Originally posted by Zed-F
Sorry for lapsing into Training Day mode, I know some of you don't need it, but hopefully some good will come out of it for those that do!
That is a worry I can understand.
Of course, I hope with don't hit 730AD with just 1 marketplace built.
