rbd23 - b

smegged

Psi Cop
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Messages
413
Location
Brisbane, Queensland
This is the thread where RBD-b will post and play their game. Members from the other teams should not read or post in this thread. It is considered cheating, and is frowned upon. When the game is finished, the team "captain" (merely the vet rbder in the thread) will post "finished" in the original rbd 23 thread. When all teams have posted finished, we can compare score/weed and other such goodies :).

Remember, this is a fun game, and should be treated as such. The victors are the team that gets the highest score, but the winners are the people who have fun playing :).

Please confirm that you are still able to play.

Team-b roster

Sirian (captain) (please confirm)
arizona_steve
lonestar
lkendter
Sulla
 
These are the starting conditions:

Small world
Raging Barbarians
80% water archapelago
arid
cool
3 billion years

Japanese civ
Opponents:
Germany, Persia, Aztecs, Zulus and one random opponent

Difficulty: Monarch
All victory conditions allowed
 

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Well I'm still here... :)

Is Sirian playing in this game? :eek: I certainly hope so! I learned more about Civ3 from reading the Cuban Isolationist game then from any of the 10 or so games I've played myself...

We need to get a turn order developed soon. I'd rather not go first, out of fear of screwing things up, but aside from that I have no preference. Maybe we should have a team name too - RBD23b isn't the most poetic of titles! :cool:
 
Confirming my interest.

Suggest team leaders be first.

Put me third - I know Sirians reports can get to wordy ;)
 
Well I probably shouldn't for time factors as yet, but the early rounds will be shorter, so I'll squeeze them in.

I'll be happy to go first, as well, but won't be doing so tonight.

- Sirian
 
Count me in!!!

I have no objections to going second. I'm generally a warrior-warrior-warrior-settler type when I build my first cities, but I'll try to set Lee up for the pyramids somewhere along the way...
 
Small world -
Agressive barbs -
Military civs -

I don't think wonders will play of a factor here.
 
4000BC: Kyoto founded. Local tribe gives us maps. I choose Bronze for research, running max rate since the silks give us +2 commerce.

3750BC: Warrior trained, sent south. Start on settler.

3600BC: German archer encountered in the mountains. :(


BOO HISS on scenerio design. :mad: Cramped Archipelago small map with the Germans right next door? Been there, done that. It was called Apolyton 6. I retired from that game after a stack of five vet archers and a vet spear of mine could not defeat two regular German spears defending their capital. The Germans are absolutely positively THE WORST enemy to try to tackle this way, too, because they start with both archers and spearmen as their free units, and will promote like mad at any victories they garner.

Ancient warfare with the enemy right on top of you sounds nice in theory, but in practice it's mostly a luck affair. Sure you can better your odds, but your resources are too few, and the rewards for taking risks too large. The game is just way too fickle about a single unit vs single unit battle. The odds balance out much better with small stacks, but can still be streaky.

It's not just the idea of having the Germans start right next to you. It's not giving you enough room to play peacefully -- and wow, this is a small rock! Fine for a scenerio or SG, but for a competition game? Lousy lousy, smegged. Lousy. Either way, the results are going to turn on luck, and there's no way around that now.

I didn't know that yet in 3600, as I had not yet explored the lands, but I DID know the game conditions and my morale plummetted on the likelihood that we are indeed crammed into a sardine can with Germany.


3500-3000BC: I marched our warrior south, across a really thick patch of mountains (more boo-hiss time and catcalls, that is not playable battlefield either. The AI's will march around our units, and we can't attack them there, so we either have to stop them before they get into the mountains -- doable, but not immediately -- or else let them through to our capital, which is right on the edge of the mountains.)

I finished the settler and sent him north.

We finished Bronze and I started warrior code. Might as well research what the Germans already know, so that we get second-civ research costs and let them research at first, where possible.

Our warrior learned that the Germans have a second city well before we even finished our settler, and we had a wheat and beelined to the settler ASAP. Did they pop a hut for a settler or are their lands THAT good?

3000-2750BC: Founded Osaka and started it on a warrior to explore northward.

Our warrior in the south, returning homeward (unable to explore any further, as this is a thin strip of land we are on, and German borders blocked any further movement) ran across a German settler-warrior pair. I played tag with them a couple of turns, but discovered I could not block them. The land in that area is desolate, but good grief how many German cities are they going to end up with? They already have three!

Well, one way or another, we're either going to get bold and take some chances, or have to sit back with not enough lands and wait and wait and wait and wait. Either way, the outcome would be luck-based: take our shots and succeed, take them and fail, or sit back and avoid risks... and miss the chance to do anything.

I finally decided to attack. Our warrior beat their warrior with one hp left, and I sent the captured workers north into the mountains.

Chalk one up on the Luck Tables for Team B. :rolleyes:

2750-2550BC: Osaka warrior sent north. Started a worker.

Finished temple in Kyoto, started barracks.

Moved our warrior into the mountains.

2550-2150BC:

Our Osaka worker started a mine, and Osaka started building barracks. We have two cities and not likely to have time to build any more for at least a little while.

A German archer came out after us. The odds in the mountains were 50/50, and this time we lost. Chalk one Luck Factor to the AI.

Up north, our warrior ran across a barb camp. Ack! Two barbs up there, too. I had to fortify against the first. We won that, then I had to charge the camp. We won that, too, but barely, and neither fight promoted the warrior. Considering that on Monarch we get HUGE bonuses in combat vs barbarians (they are even better on lower difficulties, and even on Emperor it is large -- only Deity makes you fight barbs straight up) I consider these results "iffy". Chalk these up as a wash. At least it wasn't BAD luck.

At Kyoto, we finished our barracks, then a vet spear. I sent the spear south into the mountains.

The German archer healed up, and a second one joined them. They IGNORED OUR SPEAR and beelined right for Kyoto. I barely got our first spear back to the city and trained another spear unit in time.

Two vet spears fortified vs two regular archers. The odds say the luck is way way in our favor. Well... so much for the odds.

First archer takes 3 hps off a spear in a row, then loses 3 in a row (whew) to die. Our spear promotes to elite!

Then the other regular archer killed our other vet spear, losing only 1 hp, and himself promotes to veteran.

Then it was their archer with 3hp vs our elite foritified spear with only two, and the whole game on the line.

We won, but barely.


My tally: 2 Luck Factors to us, 4 to the AI, 2 washouts. If those kind of odds hold up, we can have a chance, but 2 to 1 on luck is Not Good. And just imagine, if I had lost the first fight, that would be 5 to 1 instead of 4 to 2. If we had lost the vet vs elite battle between the wounded units, this game would be over. I feel like I stepped into a game of Rock-Scissors-Paper instead of Civ3, in that whether we succeed or fail is going to come down more to our luck on the dice than the moves we choose to make, and I think that sUx0rz.


I played the first 40. We have one elite spear on defense in our capital, and one regular warrior in the north preventing more barb camps from popping out. We have two cities, two barracks, one temple.

Kyoto is due to grow AND produce a spear next turn, no matter what it claims, so please do not mess with it at all on the inherited turn. After that, do what you please, but we lost a spear and need another in the capital.

I tried to talk to Otto, but he tasted enough blood from our units that he won't accept anything less than Osaka for peace, so screw him. We need to wipe him out, the sooner the better.

There is a choke point on the south end of the mountains that is two tiles wide. If we could get vet spears onto each of those points, we should be able to close off our lands to any further incursions. SHOULD, I say, because it would not be beyond this game for a regular archer to beat a spear fortified in the mountains. I have seen it happen. :rolleyes:


I wonder what the other teams are going to do with this mess.

I plunged us into war. What the hey, if it's a luck scenerio, let's see how good our luck can get.

Uh... good luck to the next player. WE ARE AT WAR. Based on order of reply, the Roster would look like this:

Sirian
Sulla <<< UP NOW
lkendter << on deck
Arizona_Steve
lonestar

However, if you guys want to shuffle it around, it doesn't matter to me, just work it out to everyone's agreement first.


Here's a dotmap with my recommendations:

rbd23b-2150bc.jpg


We have so little grass and no fresh water, I don't want to settle on any of it. Plus overlap isn't going to matter here, THIS game will be won or lost long before sanitation. So I chose Osaka's location to preserve grass and keep it closer to Kyoto. White Dot is on the sea but gets the rest of the grass and some hills, will be a strong location. Purple dot is weak weak without irrigation but the best choose for land management (on the desert tile). This config "wastes" two mountains, but better that than wasting grass or hills. Red dot is a pure fishing village, worth getting eventually because its right on top of the capital, but really REALLY sad land. Um... that's five cities, plus whatever we can take from the Germans.

Green X marks where I killed the German settler. Germany has horses and we do not, that's Not Good, so I started us on researching Iron. There is a horse on another island but we aren't likely to get there any time soon.

If we get great leader, use him to rush the Pyramids, because counting the five dots I laid out and whatever Germany has (and possibly more land yet) there is at least enough land out here for two cores on this one landmass. So I'm thinking.

RBD23B 2150BC Save File


- Sirian
 
Ugggh. That is some terrible land - I wouldn't be surprised if one of the three teams doesn't survive the ancient age. :mad: I will see what I can do, probably taking 20 turns unless I feel overwhelmed or something like that. I have to agree with Sirian that something's not right when a map forces the outcome of the game onto gambles - I'm just glad our capital survived... :o
 
Here are my thoughts on starting the turn. Those mountains are like a giant wall - until we get a road over them anything on that side can't be reinforced, or held from the Germans with any kind of serious force. That leaves us with expansion on the pitiful plot of land allotted to us. I plan to use Kyoto to pump veteran spearmen for protection while using Osaka to put out some settlers. Let's see how well that plan holds out over the next 20 turns.

(2) 2070BC The Germans found ANOTHER city on the green "x" where Sirian killed an earlier settler. :cry: This is bad, bad, bad for us - 4 cities to our 2. Even though this is only monarch difficulty, I'm starting to worry about getting out of this one.

(8) 1830BC Lots of stuff happens. We discover iron working - and yes, we have iron just outside our borders, in one of those close mountains. I set us on the path to map making (we need to get off this piece of cr@p island) A settler produced in Kyoto too - I felt it was necessary to get out another city faster. I propose letting Kyoto grow for now. Workers finish their jobs and move to new tasks.

(10) 1750BC Tokyo founded on white dot. A settler is produced in Osaka, is 3 turns away from purple dot. Bismarck still wants Osaka for a peace treaty - not likely.

(12) 1700BC Here comes more "friends" from Bis... an archer and a warrior pop into view. Kyoto has 2 vet spears and an elite one, so I'm not worried (yet).

(13) 1650BC Edo founded on purple dot. I leave it on warrior for the next ruler to change. The assault on Kyoto begins next turn. Hope for some luck, though we should have an overwhelming advantage.

(14) The "stack" of an archer and warrior move to a different tile - must be going to pillage. Too bad we can't stop that from happening.

(15) 1600BC Yep, our bonus grassland is pillaged. :mad: Archers are in training to kick them out.

(16) 1575BC I lose a spearman attacking their archer :( (yeah I know, but it was that or have another tile pillaged) before killing it with a second spearman. Their warrior is in retreat with 1hp left - I sent our warrior who was no longer needed at him and lost. But in any case, this minor crisis is averted.

(20) 1475BC Okay, the last few turns were uneventful. I took out their hurt warrior with an archer I trained, so there is currently no threat to any cities.

That being said, we're not really in good shape. We have 4 cities to Bis' 5, and right now neither can prosecute an offense against the other. If we hook up our iron however, things might be a different story. If we really need peace, Bismarck will give it for both of our techs and most of our gold - since he's no threat right now I argue against peace until we can get better terms. Production can be changed in any city, but I suggest leaving Tokyo on temple so the bonus grassland can come into its city radius. Somewhat amazingly, we are leading in many categories on F11, even some good ones like productivity. :eek: We just discovered alphabet this turn, so research can be changed; I have us on writing en route to map making (and a path to some better land, dammit!) Good luck to lkendter! :goodjob:
 
Those look like good results, Sullla! :goodjob: Fended off the Germans, and expanded to the north quickly, and we've got iron on hand. Going to be rough, but as long as we aren't losing cities that's the main thing. We'll come out ahead of any of the other teams who try to play it peacefully, I think, if we can manage to run over the Germans. :)

What I really want to see is the dotmaps the other guys come up with! We have squeezed in four cities but with lots of overlap, so I wonder what they are going to end up with.

Of course, can't find out until we're done here, and that hopefully won't be very soon, so... I'll have to stop wondering and just wait. :)


- Sirian
 
Preturn - GACK!
Change Edo to barracks, we need quality vet troops above all.

1350 BC - Begin clearing the silks forsest, any extra commerce will help.
1325 BC - Kill a lone German archer, promoted to elite.
Toyko order barracks, we know what type of game this is.
1275 BC - 3 high stack off archers are spotted.
1250 BC - Iron Colony created with Multiple spearman to protect it.
Swordsman are ordered :)
1225 BC - Germany ignores it.
1200 BC - 3 dead German archers, 2 promotions to elite.
Germany didn't like that - they offer a straight peace treaty - good sign for us.
1100 BC - Begin Mapmaking research - I agree - We need to see what those other land masses are.
1050 BC - 2 dead archers, 1 injured horse costing us NOTHING.
975 BC - Konigsberg is auto-razed - 2 swordsman go elite.
1 horseman killed. 1 horesman trapped.

Summary - Edo and Tokyo will be safe with the first defender soon.
I risked them empty since I didn't think anyone knew mapmaking - However, there defense needs to be

built up soon.
Osaka is building the city to replace Koningsberg.
See X spot, the choke point for Germany, and a decent city spot besides.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/RDB23B-975BC.zip
 
Inherited Turn:
Kyoto is at 5 citizens and due to grow to 6 in 2 turns. We already have one happy and one unhappy citizen, so it will riot if growth is allowed to happen. I switch one citizen from the wheat to the desert to kill any further growth without loss of production or commerce.
Settler being built at Osaka will head for the chokepoint that Lee marked on his map.
I think that a small city on the desert right next to the iron might be an idea, low priority though.

(1) 950BC
Elite archer kills a German warrior that strays outside German borders.
Fortify troops on mountains so that they can heal while still trapping that German horsie.
German horsie makes a break for it, killing our archer.
Elite warrior holds off a German horsie, before being finished off by a spearman.
Osaka builds a settler, need to get him to the choke point. Swordsman started.
Tokyo builds spearman, starts swordsman.

(2) 925BC
Horseman killed by our elite archer. Spearman killed off our swordsman.
Edo builds spearman, starts Sword.
No German counterattack.

(3) 900BC
Fortify troops on the chokepoint to allow them to heal a bit. Another swordsman on the way there.
Still no sign of Germans.

(4) 875BC
Fortify more troops, stack is now five units.
Mine desert outside Kyoto to get an extra shield.

(5) 850BC
Stack-o-five moves inside German territory.
Kyoto builds swordsman, starts another.

(6) 825BC
Our stack moves up next to Berlin.
Still no German counter-attack. Have they really burned through their units?

(7) 800BC
Three spearman are killed by our mighty swordsmen at no loss to us. Berlin is burned to the ground! There is a settler there, who becomes two slaves for us. Actually three, there was a worker there as well.
Osaka switched from Swordsman to settler. We must get a city there before the Germans move in.
Still no counter-attack.

(8) 775BC
Steveville is founded on the chokepoint, starts barracks. I leave the swordsman fortified there for defence.
Our new slave labour is put to use building a road to connect SteveVille to the rest of our empire.

(9) 750BC
Tokyo production changed from spearman to swordsmen.
Still no sign of the Germans.

(10) 730BC
Settler built in Kyoto and sent towards ex-German lands. He will pick up a spearman escort at the iron colony. I make sure that our citizen on the desert is put back on the wheat. Another settler is ordered.

(11) 710BC
We're losing 2 gold per turn, so I drop science to 50%, adding one turn to map making.
The stack-o-five marches up next to Frankfurt.
I move a swordsman towards the remaining German territory, where he spots a warrior wandering towards us.

(12) 690BC
Stupid German warrior was too scared to attack. He is now dead.
Frankfurt is razed. Two spearmen die with no losses.
Our glorious stack-o-five regroups and heals in wait for the assault on the remainder of Germany.

(13) 670AD
A steady stream of troops heads in Germany's direction :D

(14) 650AD
Kyoto produces another settler, switched back to Swordsman production.
Germany begs for peace. I check their terms and note that they would give us Munich, or all their tech (masonry, mysticism and horseback riding). I would rather see them reduced to one city before grabbing their techs.

(15) 630BC
Our first settler reaches his new home. I want to make use of those mines that the Germans so kindly left us :D
We get map making. I switch to literature. Here's hoping that the rest of the world is stuck in similar crappy positions to ourselves.

(16) 610BC
Satsuma founded in range of ex-german mines. A forbidden palace there would make it a powerhouse. Sadly, no leaders have emerged from my battles.
Our second settler is also on his way to grab former Frankfurt as a fishing village.

(17) 590BC
(18) 570BC
Stack-o-five makes rude gestures at spearmen in Leipzig.

(19) 550BC
Well the gesticulations must have angered the Liepzig garrison, as we lose three of our swordsmen to two of their spearmen. They still had two archers there, who wandered out and killed the remaining two swords. I shrug my shoulders - unlucky dice rolls.

(20) 530BC
A following swordsman kills the Liepzig archer.
Son of Frankfurt is founded. It won't be more than a small fishing village, but at least it claims the land there. A temple is ordered.


Notes:
The german "flood" has slowed to a sporadic dribble of units. There is a swordsman, archer and spearman outside Leipzig. Avenge the death of the stack-o-five!! Kill!! Kill!! Kill!! :D

13 turns to literature. I went this route since we can extort horeseback riding (amongst other things) from the Germans as part of a peace deal, before immediately attacking them again and killing them off. I don't think they are in contact with anyone else, so this shouldn't affect our reputation.

Above all, have fun...

RBD23B-530BC.zip
 
Well a leader for the FP sounds good -
However, our potential cities are to close -
Once in Monarchy, we would want a fp further away.

Of course, the turn of suck did kind of kill a good chance for a leader - most of those units were probably elite.
 
Wow - was this 4 turns in one day? :crazyeye: Arizona_Steve is right - our friend Bis got hit, and got hit HARD. :hammer: We should definitely make sure to get all their techs for peace, then finish them off at our leisure (20 turns, or fewer if we decide to be terrible breakers of our word :eek: ) Germans finished by 500BC? I wonder if the other games can claim that? ;) Now we get to explore with galleys and find out what's going on in the rest of the world - here's to an arid, mountainous start for our other "friends" out there in the dark! :lol:

Sirian << on deck
Sulla
lkendter
Arizona_Steve
lonestar <<< UP NOW
 
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