rbd23 - c

Those results seem perfectly acceptable to me, Charlie. Good job micromanaging our cities! And don't worry about not caving in to Germany's demand for Alphabet; we wanted war with him anyway so IMO it was the right call. About the only other thing we could have done with it was to trade it for a shortened research time on Iron Working, which we wouldn't have been able to do anyway if you gave it to him. Our best case was to refuse and find he was bluffing, but the outcome we got doesn't present a problem. :hammer: Your losses at Hamburg were purely due to bad luck, not because you made any mistakes, and all came out well in the end anyway. About the only thing I would have done differently is build a couple more spears and a couple less archers since the latter dead-end in the Middle Ages while the former can go all the way to mech infantry.

That stack of troops should be able to give Berlin a serious hurting -- it's practically a mini-SOD for this era, so let's press on with the offensive (unless we need to stop and heal.) Plus, we can continue to have more reinforcements pouring out of Kyoto and Osaka as needed. That's our big advantage over Germany; their cities are so small that they can't reinforce, and their defensive troops are so spread out that they are weak everywhere and should be easy pickings. I bet those two archers are all they had available to throw at us as far as counter-attackers go :lol: and you handled them exactly as you should have.

About getting Iron online, we can use the captured German worker for our colony. It's not like we don't plan to get more anyway... :) I don't think we need a road on the actual iron square, as the colony should provide that automatically. We do need to build a road down through the desert, however, and the German worker should be able to help with that before he builds the colony.

What I'd like to see happen is we roll through Germany and, just before he's about to get extinguished, we call for 20 turns of peace in exchange for everything he's got that we might want -- primarily tech. To that end, my vote is that we leave Frankfurt alone! It's a hopeless little town that can't grow and can't build squat, so it's no threat to us, and it would just get autorazed anyway if we attack it. So, let 'em keep it for now, while we take out the rest of Germany -- trying to capture rather than raze cities, as trying to get settlers all the way over there at this stage of the game would be a pain. That applies to autorazes as well -- if you think delaying an attack might prevent an autoraze (by growth to size 2 for instance), consider whether to delay the assault. If so, keep a sharp eye on that city, 'cause Bizzy is almost certain to whip it back down if he gets a chance.

Keep an eye out for the balance of forces in the area. Once we have a substantial advantage (should be soon!) we ought to switch back into expansion/infrastructure mode in our cities, and only build reinforcements on an as-needed basis. We want to have granaries in place before we get construction, for instance, and there's wonders and other city improvements to consider coming up as well. We don't need defenders all over the place until we meet a civ that can hit us anywhere in our territory, and Biz ain't it.

What to research after mapmaking? I don't think we are going to be at war with anyone but Bizzy for the next while, as I suspect we are alone on this island with him, so that rules out Monarchy. Literature gets us the ability to build the Great Library, but we can always buy tech off the other civs once we contact all of them (to bring the price down) if we have a robust economy going; it also lets us build Libraries, but we probably won't be doing much of our own research anyway, since we need cash for unit maintenance and for rushing stuff. Construction won't help us much until after our initial expansion phase is over, but we should try to get it as soon as possible after that. We'll pick up currency around then as well since they both require mathematics. Republic is a fairly safe bet to head towards while we explore with triremes and find out how advanced/primitive everyone else is, as the commerce bonus can be used for either science or cash, and it gets rid of the despotism production penalty. So, right now I'm thinking of researching towards Mapmaking, then Republic, followed by Construction/Currency. Thoughts, anyone?
 
After starting the great Japanese nation, Arathorn was proud of the direction it was taking. We are a militaristic people. And we will fight our enemies wherever they may be. This Bismarck fellow thinks he can intimidate us? HA! It is to laugh....

(0) 1500 - All looks good. charliehoke, you may question the job you did, but it looks pretty masterful from here. Can't control the roll of the dice.... I definitely agree on the not-caving. We were ready enough for war.

(1) 1475 - Our forces begin the long march to Berlin. The mountain was a good home, but it is now time to leave it.

(2) 1450 - Move toward Berlin again. A Germany settler/warrior pair appears. Bad timing. They'll probably retreat and we'll miss out on some workers. Oh well. MM Kyoto as suggested by charliehoke. Works great!

But they didn't! A second warrior joined the first and they continued to advance. Right into our teeth! Just when I thought the AI was getting smarter... (see lotr2 for some comments on that).

(3) 1425 - We take the "bait" and kill two warriors with attacking archers, one losing one hp and the other losing 3 but becoming elite. Captured 2 workers.

Dial up Bizzy. He'll offer two techs for peace. NAH! Wait until he'll give all three.

Spearmen completes in Kyoto, begins archer.

(4) 1400 - Advance on Berlin (seeing a trend here? That's what most of my turn was -- a slow, careful march on Berlin). Osaka completes an archer and begins another.

(5) 1375 - Our warrior (no archers handy) attacks and kills a German archer, losing a couple hps in the process. Continue MM. More advance on Berlin -- not the straight route but the safe one and protecting units.

(6) 1350 - First forces (defended by an elite spear) reach the outskirts of Berlin. Spearmen defend the city. I switch Kyoto to a settler, since we can't afford to completely STOP growing. I also think this will be a good way to get the iron. Anyway, the idea might or might not be sound, but the micromanagement of shields was poorly done. Mea culpa.

(7) 1325 - Attack Berlin? With one archer, an injured warrior, and an elite spear? No thanks. Reinforcements are on the way.

(8) 1300 - "Give me more units, that we may sheathe our arrows in the beating hearts of our enemies!"

Archer completes in Osaka, begins another. Settler completes in Kyoto, begins spear, with 6/8/6 micromanagement again.

(9) 1275 - Reinforcements arrive near Berlin. More on the way.

(10) 1250 - Do I attack? Might not be prudent, but I've put all these forces into position and I can't bear to not give it a shot. If this offensive goes south, our eventual position can be laid at my feet. I cross my fingers, toes, and other anatomy. ... And order the fateful attack.

Unit 1 -- a vet archer attacks a regular spear. And dies -- taking 2 hp from the opponent. (Ctl-shift-M -- no rivers, no hills. OH! The German horse is UNDER Berlin. I want that...)

Unit 2 -- vet archer vs. regular spear. We lose 3 hp but kill the spear! WOOHOO!

Unit 3 -- elite archer vs. regular spear. We lose 3 hp again but kill the spear. Whew.

Unit 4 -- vet archer vs. regular archer -- they're getting low on units. German archer doesn't even scratch the Japanese one.

Umm...that's all my archers....

All that's left, though, is that darn 1 hp spear from unit 1.

Unit 5 -- elite spear vs. 1 hp spear. First battle -- German spear loses and dies! We capture Berlin! And horses!

:dance: :dance:

Dial up Bizzy. Whatdya say to peace, now, fruitcake?

His offer?

Frankfurt, Masonry, Mysticism, Horseback Riding, and 12 gold (if you do it yourself). I like that deal. But...my turn is pretty much over. I'm gonna leave it to the next person, with a strong recommendation to ACCEPT peace with 3 techs and another city. That'll leave Germany 2 cities, which we can take in ... oh, about 20 turns or so! :)

Then we can change over from military builds to infrastructure, getting a granary in Kyoto and a settler out of Osaka (my recommendations, anyway).

I also would settle with the settler right where he is. It'll be a while before the city is any good, but I like the spot, personally.

And we need roads through the mountains -- horses one way and luxuries the other.

Only semi-bummer is no GL. Still, a nice set-up by charliehoke got me into position. And I'm very happy with the result.

Arathorn
 
Got it. Will play & post soon.
 
A little different from what I would have done... but it's all good. :hammer:

I agree we need to get back on infrastructure, so if we don't have decisive forces with which to take out the other 2 German cities (besides Frankfurt) right now then peace sounds like a good proposition. Who knows, we might even be able to extort another tech off of them next time... :) Although, it might be better to let them keep Frankfurt and get their other city, if we can, so long as we still get those techs. I don't know what their other city is like, but it can't be worse than Frankfurt!

EDIT: Now these new captured workers, we want to keep them. They may be slow, but they're free, and if there's one thing we're short on, it's workers! :)
 
All dates BC.

(0) 1250: "Voot? Peace with the Germans? Aber why!?", cried Military Advisor as I brought him the news.

(1) 1225: Kyoto will finish its Spearman in a turn. Edo founded on the spot. Not very perspective, but will do for the iron. Archer sent out to remove barbarians from the southern mountains. Workers continue to build road from Ger... New Japan :D Worn out troops enter Berlin to heal, healthy troops head towards German border to keep an eye out for trouble. Osaka has grown, and will riot if not attended to. Confronted with a decision, growth or production, I go for the latter: starve it.

(2) 1200: "Starvation in Osaka!". I fire the Domestic Advisor, he doesn't seem to remember things. Some greenish border spotted west of Tokyo :eek: Foreign Advisor suggests that it be the Aztecs, altough we cannot contact them just yet. Kyoto builds Spearman. We have enough units in New Japan, so I assign him to garrison our capital. Our archer, ingenously named the Barbuster, defeats a pathetic barbarian warrior and advances towards their camp. You can always tell barbarians from real warriors by their not understanding the terrain defense opportunities the mountains offer... Oh yeah, they stink, too. Movement of troops.

(3) 1175: Tokyo completes temple and starts work on defense. Spearman ordered. The Desert Highway completed, Edo connected to silks. One more worker sent out to help with the iron. ETA: 10 turns. "We dispersed a Zhou encampement and recieved 25 gold!". Thank you, Military Advisor. I am so tempted to grab that German worker at the border :lol:

(4) 1150: Osaka builds archer, spearman ordered. We now have 7 archers, it should be enough. The people love me, so they expand the palace :love:

(5) 1125: We discover Writing! Mapmaking in ~20 turns.

(6) 1100: Kyoto grows, builds another spearman. I assign it to garrison Edo. We will need to expand quickly as soon as we get mapmaking. Temple started in Edo as a placeholder for galley.

(7) 1075: Tokyo's culture influence expands.

(8) 1050: Eek! A barbarian camp appears right next to our worker! I didn't think this was possible.

(9) 1025: Defeated one barbarian.

(10) 1000: Culture influence of (some German city) expands. Troops retreat, we wouldn't want to anger Bismarck :D

Not much excitement... Note the temple placeholder for galley in Edo. IMHO, Kyoto should build a settler after it grows, so that we can settle some bottleneck on the western island as soon as we get mapmaking. There is a spearman near Edo that should escort the settler.
 
Those results seem perfectly acceptable to me, Charlie. Good job micromanaging our cities! And don't worry about not caving in to Germany's demand for Alphabet; we wanted war with him anyway so IMO it was the right call.

All looks good. charliehoke, you may question the job you did, but it looks pretty masterful from here. Can't control the roll of the dice.... I definitely agree on the not-caving. We were ready enough for war.

Thanks guys!! :goodjob: I thought I might be outclassed with the RBD folks, but who knows, after this I may join more!!

I'm really happy with the way things turned out - Capturing Berlin was masterful!
 
Congratulations, Grey Fox, you're the next contestant on Crush the Germans!!! :hammer:

Oh, we still have 10 turns left in our treaty? Well, maybe you're the next contestant on Japanese Better Homes & Gardens (Expansion & Infrastructure) then. Not as sexy, I know, but at least it's not Martha Stewart Living... :)
 
Things are looking good from my angle folks!

Charliehoke - taking no guff from overzealous Bizmeister, micromanaging for zero shield waste, recouping from a nasty start.... spot on!!! :hammer: That's the way!!

Good job also (to all) on keeping honorable with the treaties,
that's the spirit! (Even it it means a few extra turns of JBH&G)

Charis
 
Uh oh, looks like the gang at rbd23-b are catching up, they're only 7 behind us now! Must spam more posts! :)
 
charliehoke...umm...this is kinda my first rbd game, too. I guess I'm in 13, the Cretan game, but I hadn't intended to be when it started. And that one's kinda got odd turn orders....

Zed-F, just out of curiousity, what would you have done? I feel pretty good about capturing Berlin (for a number of reasons) and was curious about your course of action -- to see what I can learn from it.

Charis, you're not doing this one? Oy vey! There's something definitely ... lacking from the competition then. We'll miss ya. Of course, you get to read all the progress reports. Any chance of you and/or smegged putting something in the main thread about years each team is in and/or other random information? I'm kinda curious.

At least I know we're the most frequent posters! Quantity over quality!!!

Edo placeholder for galley?? It's not gonna grow first? I would probably suggest placeholder for harbor there and make the ship in Kyoto...except Kyoto has to build Lighthouse.... Hmmm.... Lovro, you may be right. Something for the next leader to consider.

Do we want to use Colussus as a pre-build for Lighthouse in Kyoto? The danger is if someone beats us to Colussus, we have NO back-up wonder to build. An issue for Grey Fox to consider....

I, personally, would probably build another city on one of the chokepoints between old Japan and new Japan. Cover "our" island as much as possible and provide more ship routes. Would be another possible boat-building city, too. Just a thought.

Osaka is over-populated? Build a worker/settler ASAP then. Food is at a premium. Don't starve 'em!!!

I recommend no more archers. And possibly using our current archer corps as explorers on the next island sets....

Arathorn
 
In the main, similar to what you would have done, but some of the smaller details would have been a bit different. For instance, I would have gone for more workers & a colony rather than the settler. I didn't think there was room for a worthwhile city down by the iron, as it's all mountains and desert down there, and we don't necessarily want to build cities that can't grow at this point in the game; however, it is close to our capital, so we might be able to make something of it.

Absolutely Berlin was the target of choice as far as military goes; I might have tried to do it with fewer forces and tried swapping to infrastructure eariler (I'm a builder at heart) but I might have failed and needed a second attempt had I done so.

-------------

As far as thoughts for future leaders go, I haven't seen the map recently so I'll hold off. Just remember we want to get as much infrastructure going as we can right now while we have no (significant) enemies to fight and we're waiting for mapmaking. We have more than enough military, probably too much for where we're at in the game -- using some for explorers/new city defense on other islands is a good plan. Absolutely I think we should prebuild a wonder, or even 2 if we can afford to leave Osaka building a Palace for a while. (Although, what we'd want for a second wonder is a bit up in the air right now, so it might not be worthwhile. We should be sure to build a settler first if we do go this route.) We're close enough to getting mapmaking that I think the risk of having Colossus built is minimal, especially since it requires a coastal town and it's a low-priority wonder as far as the AI goes.
 
Originally posted by Arathorn
Osaka is over-populated? Build a worker/settler ASAP then. Food is at a premium. Don't starve 'em!!!
I broke my head over this one. I was gonna switch to building workers, but decided against it. Not sure why, now that I look at it. :rolleyes:
 
Heh, they're really posting up a storm in rbd23-b. Either they had the same idea as we did regarding having the most posts, or they're having a real debate over there about something. :)
 
Originally posted by Zed-F
Congratulations, Grey Fox, you're the next contestant on Crush the Germans!!! :hammer:

Oh, we still have 10 turns left in our treaty? Well, maybe you're the next contestant on Japanese Better Homes & Gardens (Expansion & Infrastructure) then. Not as sexy, I know, but at least it's not Martha Stewart Living... :)

Ok, I got the game and I'm about to play. Sorry not to have been active during the Weekend, but I was home at my parents house and they have no connection to the Internet.

Anyway. We shouldn't waste those precious Coast and Sea Tiles. Cities near the capital only working the Ocean might be a must later. Money is important, as we want to come to Chivalry as fast as we can. The faster we can win by Conquest the better. More cities also increase our base score if you look at it in a Competetive way. (Because we want to win right :cool: ).

So some cities by the coast might be important.

We need to take that Horsie I saw somewhere, as the Samurai's need those to grow their muscles...

Nice to see that we are Honorable, though. Keep up the good work. (And nice Micromanagement, btw...)
 
GF, we have horses. You might note in my report that I mentioned getting them directly under Berlin. Judging by the reports, we now have a road to New Japan, so so that our horses are online!

I think the biggest priority at this point is getting the Lighthouse and meeting everybody -- playing broker and cutting our research costs by knowing everybody.

Actually, if we can keep them isolated and keep their research costs high, we can maybe blitz with samurai and do no more research... It's a thought, if maybe a bad one, depending on the land layout.

Arathorn
 
Great, then I will try and build as many Horsemen I can. They are Upgradeable directly to the Samurai you know.

Another point to get those golden coins. But I can see now when I take a look at the map, why we shouldn't build so many cities by the Ocean... Our Lands are very narrow. It would only destroy for our main cities if we would build to dense.

But we could build One or Two more cities in Old Japan.

Ok, a question before I play. Should I switch to a Wonder in Kyoto, their are three Wonders I can switch between before getting mapmaking. Because their is a Spearmen ready in 1 turn, and to build it in Kyoto would be wasting shields for the wonder.

A fast answer is required.
 
I'd say wonder...sorry I was so slow. As long as no more than 300 shields will be built up by the time map-making is discovered, I 'd say start.....

The Lighthouse might make all the difference in this game -- HUGELY HIGH priority.

Arathorn
 
Building extra cities in Old Japan is NOT a priority right now, IMO. We are food-limited -- we need to make sure all our citizens are doing something useful NOW, not founding cities that can't grow without harbours, that have no production, and that are cutting into our corruption levels. Founding extra half-cities in Old Japan can wait until all better sites are taken, and that includes sites on nearby islands!

We also DON'T need more military right now. We have been building practically nothing but military units for the last 30 turns! We can always build horses later, once (a) we're in a better economic position to make war, and (b) we're reasonably close being able to upgrade them to Samurai. Also bear in mind that upgrading from ancient-era to middle-ages units is quite expensive; we probably won't be able to afford to do that a lot despite our best efforts, as money will also be needed for diplomacy and for rushing vital improvements (like barracks & temples.)

I would far rather see us catch up on infrastructure -- like Granaries, for instance. There's a reason I suggested you should be plaing JBH&G, after all! After we get granaries, we will much better be able to afford things like spare settlers for expansion, and after we get to Republic and make contact with the other civs we will be in a much better position to turn off research, build up cash, and let the AIs research for us. Let's not put the cart before the horse, people... we should at least be *close* to getting out of the ancient era before we start thinking about blitzing the world with Samurai!

By all means build a wonder! Prebuilding for Lighthouse is absolutely the way to go if we have multiple wonders we can switch between.
 
Originally posted by Zed-F
Building extra cities in Old Japan is NOT a priority right now, IMO. We are food-limited -- we need to make sure all our citizens are doing something useful NOW, not founding cities that can't grow without harbours, that have no production, and that are cutting into our corruption levels. Founding extra half-cities in Old Japan can wait until all better sites are taken, and that includes sites on nearby islands!

I'm aware of this and I agree with you. But it could be some added later when we know more about the world and we have no better places to settle.

We also DON'T need more military right now. We have been building practically nothing but military units for the last 30 turns! We can always build horses later, once (a) we're in a better economic position to make war, and (b) we're reasonably close being able to upgrade them to Samurai. Also bear in mind that upgrading from ancient-era to middle-ages units is quite expensive; we probably won't be able to afford to do that a lot despite our best efforts, as money will also be needed for diplomacy and for rushing vital improvements (like barracks & temples.)

I know. I just realized how "Not far" we were in the game. And how little infrastructure we had. I won't build any offensive units at all. Or so I guess.

I would far rather see us catch up on infrastructure -- like Granaries, for instance. After we get granaries, we will much better be able to afford things like spare settlers for expansion, and after we get to Republic and make contact with the other civs we will be in a much better position to turn off research, build up cash, and let the AIs research for us.

I agree with you. Although, the germans need to be taken care of soon. (We should spare one of their cities, or give them one to make the Prices go down on techs...).
 
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