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RBD5 Succession - French Musketeer Artillery Variant

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Charis, Jan 16, 2002.

  1. Charis

    Charis Realms Beyond

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    RBD5 Succession Game - French Musketeer Artillery Variant

    Artillery. BOOM? I've not been using that element effectively at all.
    So what to do when I'm lousy at something? Force myself to use it
    I've been wanting to do this since seeing how some other folks were using
    artillery to great effect in a succsion game, but Sirian's "Infantry" game
    prompted some of the specifics of the 'extra rules' here. (The game play is
    envisioned as quite different, I just wanted to have an artillery focus game
    where Musketeers play a key role)

    Basic premise: No city may be taken without the direct support of artillery.

    Civilization? What is needed for the catapult? Alphabet and Masonry to reach
    Mathematics. Who starts with those? Commercial industrious. Ah, the French.
    Some would find it appropriate that the French play a game in which they are
    scared for their infantry to fight without first have their foes softened up,
    but I leave such judgements to the reader. The workers extra speed will help
    make roads, which are required to move artillery in rough terrain.

    French? Well there's a UU I've never used, even in my two French games! This
    must be corrected too. Simple: for Cannons and later, a Musketeer is required
    to operate and coordinate fire! Plus what better companion for these vulnerable
    units than these Musketeers. While we're at it, might as well let Paratroopers
    (the other worthless unit) have a special role.

    Game parameters: Large Map, Continents with large land mass, 3 billion, warm, arid.
    Leader: Not Joan this time but D'Artagnan (one of the musketeers, along with Athos,
    Porthos and Aramis) to set the tone. He names the first three cities after his friends :p
    Civ: French, # of opponents: only 6, (not max 11, to be sure to get to muskets
    before all the fighting was done). Barbarians are restless. Opponents were chosen
    to have UU of same era or same strength: Japan, Rome, Russia, India, Greece, and Persia.
    Difficulty: Monarch (due to the added self-restrictions)
    Victory conditions: Diplomacy, Cultural, Conquest. (No space or domination)

    Turns: 40-30-25-20-15 then 10 for each turn. #players: 5 would be good, +/- ok.
    (These long turns in first round due to size of map, and the first turn in
    particular to found 3 musketeer cities. We may need to adjust those.)

    Normal rules:
    - No reload
    - No automation of workers
    - 24hrs to post "Got it" or "Pass", and 48 hrs to post new zipped save file
    - Use 'Save', not 'Autosave' to recover from crash until Autosave bug is fixed

    *** Extra rules ***
    - No city may be attacked on any round until artillery support has fired on the
    town (catapult, cannon, artillery, radar artillery, cruise missile or any bombardment)
    - The only exception is that Paratroopers do not require artillery support.
    - Paratroopers are suggested to be made and used, and should pillage key supply
    lines and special resources as a key part of their mission.
    - Cities need artillery garrisons. For a captured city, one artillery unit must
    remain as garrison. For a built city, an artillery unit should be produced or
    imported (AFTER that city builds/gets an infantry defender)
    - For cannon, artillery, radar art, a Musketman is required in the same square
    to operate the equipment. (This goes for city garrison as well)
    - Note that a Marine attacking a city after naval bombardment is another
    option opened up nicely ;P

    A side effect of these rules is that we won't get to crush the AI in massive
    blitzreigs due to the artillery movement speed (further making paratrooper
    deployment behind enemy lines more useful).

    ROSTER (in order:)
    Charis
    Jaffa
    Sirian (unless he's got too many irons in the fire already ;p)
    Ionpure
    Zed
    Cy (?? pencil'd in, let me know)
    (If any slots open up or if some listed as tentative can't make it, I'll post the opening)

    So Jaffa, you're up. I had to guess on right length of 2nd turn,
    so close it out after 25 or 30 turns as seems appropriate to you.

    Charis
    http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/60822 - Realms Beyond Diablo

    PS I think the patch changed the paratrooper range to 6, up from 4. Nice?

    PPS I wonder if Helicopters can carry artillery? (Airlift)
     
  2. Charis

    Charis Realms Beyond

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    Location:
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    RBD5 Succession Game - French Musketeer Artillery, Round 1, Turn 1

    4000 BC (1) - We start on a river, with a goody hut and two cattle nearby. Perfect! :goodjob:
    The worker hit the hut for maps (ew). We see moving one spot puts us on a nice
    defensive hill, on the coast, and in range of wheat, fish and game too (wow!)
    Poor hut, but great site.

    3950 BC (2) - The French Musketeer civilization starts with the founding of
    Athos. With a site like this we can crank out lots of settler units (or gambit
    and go for Pyramids.) Have to irrigate the Plains next to the city to bring water
    to irrigate the wheat.

    3750 BC (6) - A portly but adventurous man, Jacques Pierre, is trained as a Warrior
    and sent out to explore.

    3550 BC (10) - His brother, Jean Paul, also decides to become an exploring warrior.
    Mathematics is being investigated in the meantime. Jacques and Jean wish to never
    face a full strength opponent!

    3350 BC (14) - Jacques sees a goody hut and game to the north, and another river.
    3250 BC (16) - A tribe at the hut teaches us pottery.

    3150 BC (18) - Settler pops out, heads to a narrow land bridge to east. (An ideal
    location for a Port city named Porthos which will allow us North-South passage there)

    3000 BC (21) - Angry jute tribes disturbed (eep) from one hut and from another,
    Ceremonial Burial. Next turn (2950), fortunately, the barbarians turn Jean Paul into
    an elite fighting machine. News of this spurs their brother, Pierre Olivier,
    to take up warrior training. So in 2950, Porthos is founded.

    2750 BC (25) - Several quiet turns of exploring and growing. Considered a temple start
    at Athos, but wanted to get one more Settler out first to finish the Three Musketeer
    theme. A Temple will let Athos grow nicely to a more profitable size for settler pumping
    (maybe even reaching size 6 first, where it can crank= them out almost continuously).
    An alternative, a bit of a gambit would be try for quick Pyramids.

    Jean Paul has found what may be a 'choke point' of sorts to the SW. East of him is
    either the bridge to the other half of the continent, or the end of our 'island'
    (too early to tell yet, it might have another bridge just above it).
    Jacques is heading North to investigate a river and game area as a potential future
    city. Looking at the mini-map, with seven civilizations total, we're likely many many
    turns and 1.5 to 2 screens away from contact with our first neighbor. Future leaders
    will have to decide how much land we want to grab, and settle in, or to try for a
    more consolidated start (perhaps going for a wonder asap).

    (Note to self: this is 25 turn mark, could stop here, but with this large and sparse a
    map, I'm going to press on to found our third city)

    2710, 2670, 2630, 2590, 2550 BC (30) - 25 gold from hut (bah)
    2470 BC (32) - Hut to river above gives a skilled warrior (well, not SO skilled)
    2430 BC (33) - First moving barbarian attacks the elite Jean Paul (bad choice).
    2390 BC (34) - Hmmm... two decent choices seen for our next city Aramis, one
    on the coast with cattle, the other on hilly rivers. Other squares near cattle
    are poor, so lets get good production in river hill zone.

    2350 BC (35) - Temple chosen next for Porthos to let it expand boundaries quickly.
    When it reaches 38 or 39 shields needed, might want to whip just once.
    2310, 2270 BC (37) - Ah furs sighted over the hill. In fact, three! We can
    ensnare all 3 in our boundaries, or 2 and some game and forest. I pick the latter.

    2190 BC (39) - Aramis founded on a hill with TWO rivers on its square, game and 2 fur
    near. A temple is started there - may want to whip when it needs 39 to finish (?)

    2150 BC (40) - Last turn. Barbarian camp spotted.

    Lots of options available for the next leader, and a lot of exploration to do.
    Keep in mind as soon as Mathematics is researched, the variant rules require
    us to build or get a catapult in each city as soon as possible (queue'ing is ok
    rather than having to switch production unwisely).

    I leave the city founding plan to more capable hands, but wish luck to Jaffa and those following :goodjob:

    Charis
     
  3. Zed-F

    Zed-F Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Ah, reusing the RBD1/2 players? Ok, but I may have to skip my first turn or 2 until the Mother Russia game winds up. I'm already going in Sirian's Infantry game, as well as RBD4, so I may be a bit overcommitted right now, will let you know. Keep me in tentatively, but be aware I may have to bow out.
     
  4. Jaffa Tamarin

    Jaffa Tamarin Monkey Cult

    Joined:
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    0) 2150BC Science rate turned down a notch to save 2 gold! Yippee!

    1) 2110BC Athos size 3. Our brave explorers find ... nothing. With the discovery of mathematics, our military strategists realise the potential defensive abilities of devices throwing large rocks onto the heads of attackers, and demand these be constructed in all French cities. Research into writing begins.

    2) 2070BC Our lone worker completes the road from Athos to Porthos, starts on road to Aramis via hill picked for next city. Explorer finds rich grasslands with cattle to north. 25 gold from barbarian camp. Endless jungles to east. Athos finishes temple, starts catapult.

    4) 1990BC Find the edge of the purple culture to north (India, presumably).

    5) 1950BC Athos finishes catapult, starts on a settler.

    6) 1910BC Contact with Indians. Indians have bronze working and warrior code. Hmmm. Buy an Indian worker for 25 gold.

    7) 1870BC Exploring warrior reaches the other side of endless jungles. Gems spotted in mountains. Our warrior spends too long in Indian territory and they become annoyed. Ooops :p

    9) 1790BC Rich wheatfields on far side of endless jungle. Athos finishes settler, starts Pyramids.

    12) 1700BC Paris founded.

    13) 1675BC Porthos completes temple, starts catapult.

    17) 1575BC Goody hut produces three barbarian warriors! Ack! 25 gold from barbarian camp. Regular warrior becomes elite defending against the three barbarians.

    19) 1525BC Institute 10% luxury tax to deal with unrest in Athos (ooops). Whip temple in Aramis -- need to get furs on line. Porthos finishes its catapult.

    21) 1475BC Worthless map from goody hut. Paris gets its catapult.

    22) 1450BC Porthos produces a warrior to go to Athos, starts on worker.

    23) 1425BC Finish writing, start mysticism (to have Oracle available if we miss Pyramids). Establish embassy in Delhi.

    Only 25 turns since I need to get to bed :)

    We've done lots of exploring. Now need to go and settle some.

    Be careful with Athos - it's on the edge of unrest.
     
  5. Jaffa Tamarin

    Jaffa Tamarin Monkey Cult

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  6. Sirian

    Sirian Civ Map Programmer

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    Researched Mysticism, Bronze Working, Iron Working. Set up the Wheel for next project.

    On my first turn, the elite warrior on the plains in the south was attacked and slaughtered by a barbarian horseman, doing no damage in return. There went half my long range scouting force.

    Set new labor group from Porthos to chopping down forests.

    Increased food output at Athos without lowering shields.

    Mined grassland with worker near Aramis, then began a road to the de Winter estate in the hills. Yes yes, I know she's an awful deceitful woman, but I will try to woo her into supporting the French crown.

    Paris decides "screw work, let's eat!" and increases food output. There's a lot of, erm, business going on there now and we expect the population to swell quickly.

    Sent the settler from Porthos (their, uh, travois construction effort aided by chopping down the forest, us not having wheels yet, we can't exactly build wagons) eastward, into the forest, to search for Robin Hood and His Merry Men. (Oops! :eek: Wrong story!)

    Athos swells in size, and swells some more. The whole city is busy busy busy building huge stone pyramids.

    Settler from Porthos persuades Cardinal Richelieu to support the French crown, and not to be left out, Lady de Winter then throws her, uh, corset into the ring as well. A celebration is held at the planned site of the great iron mine to be built in the north, wherein the Musketeers (why they are called that, with their stone axes, is not yet known) gather and chant "One for All!"

    The complete lack of goody huts in the south is disconcerting, but we have not made contact with anybody new yet.

    Pyramids completed, and Milady de Winter demands a huge bronze statue be built to commerorate her beauty, and not wanting to get onto her bad side, the Musketeers comply. A new great project is underway in Athos.

    Uh... there are barbarians coming up from the south. We had to roll out our Royal Catapults from Athos to prevent them from reaching the farmlands, and also send out our warriors to finish off the battered remnants and temporarily increase luxuries as a result. This incursion was easily repelled, but future problems of this nature are sure to plague the next leader, as I took no action to remove the threat. Beware.

    Milady de Winter is bold and brassy, mean and sassy, and the Musketeers fear that unless she is given special attention on a continuous basis, that she may betray us to the Indians. Consider yourself warned!

    Did not use up movement for the new settler from Aramis, so that the next leader may decide best what to do with them.


    - Sirian
     
  7. Ionpure

    Ionpure Chieftain

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    Location:
    Munic, Germany
    Sorry .... I don't have any free minute until saturday afternoon :( ... please decide if you want to skip me or if you want to wait until than :confused:
     
  8. Charis

    Charis Realms Beyond

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    Ionpure, no problem. The rules for this game are to keep the ball rolling as much as possible, so we'll bump it along to Zed. Since it's first round, we'll try to switch you and he in the order. (If Zed can't take, Cy, hop right in)

    We look to be in good shape. Colossus is a good bet to finish. Being commercial that might kick off a Golden Age -- if so that city can go straight for next wonder (Great Lib or Lighthouse). A little early, but we'll take it if it comes. Hopefully we can hem the Indians in and avoid trading folks communication with them. (Keep them in the dark principle ;p) The settler yet to move might help plug that gap, or you may have a better use.

    Good luck,
    Charis
     
  9. Zed-F

    Zed-F Chieftain

    Joined:
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    According to Civ Fanatics info page, Colossus is Expansionist & Religious, so no worries there. Even if it were commerical, we need to build both a Industious and a Commercial wonder in order to kick off a Golden Age.

    Check out this page for more info...

    I have already booked RBD4 for tonight, but I could potentially play tomorrow. Cy, please go ahead of me for this round.
     
  10. Charis

    Charis Realms Beyond

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    Alrighty... Cy, if you're around, gogogo :p

    Expansionist??? A wonder that sits still and produces one
    extra commerce on most squares?? Hmmm.... ok, a later
    GA is better. BTW, we *have* build and industrious wonder
    already, the Pyramids, so a Commercial one could trigger.

    :D
    Charis
     
  11. Cyrene

    Cyrene Rube

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    erm, got it. gonna get me a giant coke and try to read the backstory and get in the swing of things.

    i had a really bad day personally, but i'll try to get it going.

    really.

    sigh.

    --cy
     
  12. Cyrene

    Cyrene Rube

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    Hey all. Just couldn’t get interested last night, but I have today off, so here is the next installment.

    Overlooked by the scribes of previous rulers was the assimilation by glorious France of the peculiar tribe of the snail. In the year 750, their leader decided that France needed his own particular brand of leadership, and, in a bloodless but painful coup (involving lots of hot garlic butter), assumed the seat of power, and declared himself Despot Cy_Escargot petit-gris.

    Upon looking at the map, he briefly considered slithering off into the night with his tail in his shell. Sacre bleu! We have no military! Why has India not already put us to the sword? I sent an emissary to chat with Ghandi and pay my respects. Snicker. No wonder they have not put us to the sword—they do not know what a sword IS! What a backwards folk. I put my tail back out of my shell, and instructed my advisors as to the future of our people.

    (1) I sent a settlement party north to found a new city to help create a border against Indian ignorance.
    (2) I sent a war party south to seek out the root of the barbarian insurrection and to show them the awesome power of the mighty French catapult.
    (3) While my advisors counseled building up our military before India overwhelmed us, I chose a different, less sane course of action. While I would build a few more defensive units (and more glorious catapults, of course!), and see to the establishment of barracks in crucial spots, I would rely more on keeping India backwards than in a military buildup, and attempt to use this time to build infrastructure and establish our southern border.

    690. Barbarian horsemen from the south attack our war party. The power of the French catapult destroys them.

    650. An Indian warrior is found wandering to our south. Tabernac! They are out!

    630. Our scientists perfect the wheel and advise us to seek out horses. Despite preferring to produce slime and crawl on my belly, I follow their advice and instruct the people to look for horses. They are found running wild through the very streets of Paris itself! Quelle bizarre! There are also reports of herds of wild horses near where our new city is due to be founded. In the south, yet more barbarians assault our war party. This time, the Indian warrior is in sight range when our glorious catapult assures victory. He is so astounded by our science that he freezes to the spot, never to move again (?). I start a settler south with a warrior to found a southern gateway city. A people known as the Greeks are rumored to have completed something known as an Oracle. Bah! Our Pyramids dwarf such undertakings. Besides, if the Greeks need a database to keep up with a pitiful ancient age civ, their brains will explode in the modern age.

    610. The port city of Orleans is founded in the north. And there was much rejoicing :cool:.

    590. The Irresponsible Indians start construction of the Colossus. What a silly people. We will be done long before them. Still, it would be wise to remember that they will have shields saved up…

    550. Contact with the Romans! Our southern explorer has finally found another great people! At an absurd distance, too. At this point Cy_Escargot petit-gris has a crisis of confidence and strategy. He slimed up the floors, walls, and yes, even the ceiling of the great palace with his, erm, “pacing.” The Romans have more techs than us, but not math. They also have communications with all but one of the remaining civs. What to do? I do not want to tech trade with the AI. But I also don’t want to give them communications with the Indians. Once India can trade with them, our tech lead over them will be gone, and they will roll up our undefended nation and turn us into Gibelotte. Yet the only way to avoid both is to do nothing with the contact, and the entire point of sending a warrior off on a 50 turn exploration is to USE the contact to our advantage somehow. After much sliming, I decide to keep India in the dark a few more turns and to blow our current (I was about to say “temporary”, but that is a judgment based on Emp diff not Monarch diff) one-tech advance over the Romans to meet some people and make some deals. I won’t detail each trade or the number of times around the circle it took, but, in the aftermath of brokerage turn from hell, our net loss is math, our net gain is contact with Rome (duh), Japan, Greece, and Russia; warrior code, mysticism, map making, and philosophy; and a gain in gold (which was good as I am running a deficit to get to Literature).

    530. Bring Ivory on line. And there was much rejoicing :cool:.

    510. Colossus completed, kicking off a golden age. Production shifted to Lighthouse as a placeholder for Great Library.

    490-450. Somewhere in here I finally tracked down the barb settlement, and, after a strong attack by our mighty catapult, razed it. End notes to follow.

    I quit after 15 turns because it “felt” right. I had enough time to get some things done, but was about to have to make some big decisions that would hve a large impact on our civ. I wanted new blood to place the next two cities and to allocate precious production during our early GA.

    Notes: Literature comes in next turn. Athos can be either switched over to the Library wonder, or can just make up all the improvements that have come in since it went into wonder generation. India is still isolated, and still does not have ironworking. When they get that, we’re going to have to bulk up our military at once or get mauled. All the other civs I have contact with have map making, so expect to see galleys sniffing around real soon. If they head north up our coast, don’t forget to sell communication with India to them all and communication to them with India for as much as we can get before they meet. The settler should reach my choice for our southernmost city in 1 turn. It is a harbor on a hill on fresh water on a choke point, but the land is poor and it is a pretty good ways south. I like the city location, and it will keep the barbs off our rears, but if I had a “do-over” I’d have used this settler up north and one of the ones about to come online down here. To recall him now would cost longer in movement than to produce a new settler, though. C’est la vie. It will need two cities to link up well with our northern cities, one west of Athos and one south down the peninsula, but that is probably not a priority right now. I have a couple of units on the way to 2 possible city spots to help keep this area in our “vision” and not allow any more barb villages to spawn. We need to be able to swing our entire military force east to hold off India without southern distractions. There are two settlers coming online. Paris will produce in 1 turn and Aramis in 7. India is starting to sniff around with settler pairs—we need to control our north asap. There are conspicuous voids east of Orleans and east of All For One. It would also be just like the AI to plop one down in the hole between Milady and Orleans, but if they do that they’ll lose it to culture eventually. Until then, it would be a real pita, though, giving them a jump-off point to Aramis and requiring us to staff Aramis as a “border” city and increase our miltary drain by 1/3. Japan is revealed to be on our continent, but fortunately is still a ways away. Porthos is about to produce a catapult which needs to go to Athos to replace the one sent south with our war party, as that one will stay south with the new city and not return “home”. Oh, and a surmise: since it took India this long to start looking to expand into our territory, I expect they have a considerable amount of land back there…

    Good luck to the next leader, you have some work to do :cool:.

    --Cy
     
  13. Charis

    Charis Realms Beyond

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    Cy, well done, and glad it was while you were fresh (sorry to hear yesterday was a bummer day)

    *** Upload the save file *** :)

    Sounds like a good deal with the Romans (minor nit: we already had Mysticism). Recent games have been showing the major advantage of working to keep your isolated neighbor 'in the dark', and definitely a good strat for this game.

    So the Colossus did kick off a Golden Age? (Now I'm confused! Could the manual be wrong? Is the Colossus in fact commercial in nature? Can any mod-maker lurkers check this?! :p)

    Thanks too for cutting the turn length to what felt right. With each new size/land type those first round turns are a guess.

    Glad to see the catapults are wreaking destruction on our foes. In another game I'm using musket-longbow-cat*4 and two man-o-war to siege a city rather than what I would normally send: two musketet and five knights. I was surprised how well it worked. It took four turns to capture, but with no losses, and the city pre-shrunk a bit.

    As far as the 'border' gap... where the Indians could sneak in and settle... could that be fixed with a temple rush or if the area is small, occupying it with warriors? (random thought)

    Zed -- if you can slip a turn in tonight, you're up. If not til Sat afternoon, then Ionpure would be back. Either way, post "got it" or "bump" :)

    Good job (well, judging from the report anyway)
    Charis
     
  14. Zed-F

    Zed-F Chieftain

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    It's very possible that the Colossus is Commercial and the Lighthouse is Expansionist, rather than vice versa, as indicated. Minor documentation bugs happen all the time, and it makes more sense that way...
     
  15. Zed-F

    Zed-F Chieftain

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    Err... Cy...

    Where's the save game file? :crazyeyes
     
  16. Cyrene

    Cyrene Rube

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    Ok, we'll try it again...

    Well, the last one bombed, here is the third try....

    OK, another bomb.

    bloody board.
     
  17. Ionpure

    Ionpure Chieftain

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    OK ... I am back :) ... will take the turn after Zed :yeah:
     
  18. Zed-F

    Zed-F Chieftain

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    Ok, then got it.
     
  19. Zed-F

    Zed-F Chieftain

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    Sorry, not an in-character post this time...

    430 BC (1): Finished researching Literacy, start Code of Laws. Science reduced to 70%, still done in 5 turns. Milady de Winter needs a Courthouse to remind her of the consequences of defying French Law! Greeks start building Great Library. Athos switches to Great Library, and should beat the Greeks; they ought not to have any shields saved up as they recently built the Oracle. Paris builds settler, starts another.

    410 BC (2): Porthos builds catapult for Athos, starts another. Bastogne founded at our southern border; there is an Indian warrior exploring nearby, and a barbarian horseman to our south! Bastogne starts building a temple to seal our border.

    390 BC (3): Our warrior fights off the barbarian horseman and retreats to Bastille to heal up. Our 2nd warrior at Bastogne moves out to go exploring. Since the Greeks already have Literature, sold it to the Romans for gold, gold per turn, and Code of Laws. Code of Laws and Literature sold to Japan for gold, gold/turn, Horseback Riding, and their World Map. While it is certainly desirable to keep the backwards Indians out of the loop as much as possible, it seems worthwhile to get their world map for trade with the other civs... we sell them Philosphy and Mysticism (which they can't do anything with) for their map and a pile of gold, plus gold per turn. India doesn't really seem to have much land in their territory, and it's all settled already...

    370 BC (4): Various troops move around... We start researching Construction, which will be done in 15 turns.

    350 BC (5): Porthos completes catapult, starts worker. Milady de Winter whips a temple!

    330 BC (6): Milady de Winter completes temple, starts courthouse. Paris completes settler, starts another. Ville de Balaines founded east of Orleans.

    310 - 270 BC: We trade maps with the world (except India); otherwise, nothing much happens. Unfortunately we come out on the losing end of the gold exchange, but it's nothing we can't afford.

    250 BC (10): One for All founded east of All for One.


    We have a settler about to arrive at city site west of Athos, and Paris is about to produce another settler. Most everyone other than the Indians are building the Great Library. The latter still seem to be isolated in their little peninsula and anything they might settle now won't be close enough to their capital to avoid being culture-flipped. For the moment our military is on par with theirs, although it's certainly worse than that of the most of the rest of the world.

    There may be a couple temples ready to be whipped -- the last couple turns I had to rush a bit & wasn't paying attention to every city.
     
  20. Ionpure

    Ionpure Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Munic, Germany
    got it :) ... quite late here ... playing tomorrow morning
     

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