1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Photobucket has changed its policy concerning hotlinking images and now requires an account with a $399.00 annual fee to allow hotlink. More information is available at: this link.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Dismiss Notice
  7. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

RBP5 - Defiant Nationalists of Japan

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Charis, Jan 21, 2003.

  1. Charis

    Charis Realms Beyond

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    1,837
    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    RBP5 - Defiant Nationalists of Japan (Succession game)

    A 'Defiant' civ takes "no guff!", never giving in to tribute demands or paying for peace
    The Nationalist in Civilization has a supreme view of itself as a nation, putting its own
    interests first above all others, shuns globalism, and has a keen view of independence.

    The proposed "Defiant Nationalist" rules are:
    * No giving in to tribute, ever. That includes never paying for peace.
    * May never sign mutual protection pacts, military alliance, right of passage, or embargo
    * Any troops in your land must be told to leave immediately
    * No capturing of foreign cities or demanding cities in tribute (flips/propaganda are ok)
    * No qualms about dastardly actions in the best interest of our nation
    (e.g., steal tech, military blockades, wars of aggression, neutral pillaging...)
    * If an AI razes one of your cities, it must be eliminated (timeframe up to you)
    * Foreign workers may never be added to your cities.
    * Nationalism should be learned ASAP upon entering Industrial era
    * Every city size 7+ at this time, and subsequent cities reaching size 7 for first time,
    MUST draft a unit for defense of that city. (So eventually, a conscript in every 'city')

    Other comments to set the spirit of the game...

    - International reputation is simply not a high priority, although treaties are not
    broken for simply monetary gain. Under the rules described though, I can't see
    getting in situations where you would have to cancel a treaty early,
    since you have no RoP, no alliances, tell troops to leave rather than openly
    declare, and have 20 turns to 'prepare' for required action. The above list of
    rules is longer than I like, but I hope the "spirit" of the game is quite clear.
    - If a city you found is captured, you should not rest until that city is recovered
    Peace before that occurs is an option, but do not forsake the city - work to get it back!
    - Be careful about AI expanding their borders 'onto' your units. If the expansion is into
    your territory this is certainly 'guff' and you would refuse, taking the annexation
    of your space as an act of war. Alas, the international community will see it as a sneak
    attack. There is precedence for not caring what others say about sneak attacks!
    - Any govt form is allowed, but if the people start whining about weariness, take no
    guff from them either! Strike down the insurrection and change to become an
    Emperor (Monarchy) or an Ultranationalist Government (Communism)
    - Refusing tribute and having no alliances is going to make for a MAJOR challenge -
    expect at least one "dogpile" on us, which won't be pretty :)

    Game details for RBP5:
    - Difficulty: Deity
    - Civ: Japan, led by Emperor Meiji
    - Map: Standard, medium pangaea, random attributes, restless barbarians. No respawn.
    - Foes: Mostly random, with a few foes traditional to Meiji era
    - Victory conditions for player: cultural, space, domination, conquest.



    With starting tile right on a river, with game and several bonus grasslands nearby,
    and nice combo of forests, grass and hills, this looks like a pretty decent start.

    Comments on civ choice. I wanted a military civ, preferably a fast UU, but
    one that comes fairly early, and is sturdy. On Emperor diff I probably like
    Rome as the Legionaries will do well, and last quite a while, but on Deity,
    you're rather likely to see things fly into early Middle Ages, and you need
    something that is useful throughout that era. Combine these, add in religious
    trait for cheap temples and culture to keep foes nicer, and Japan is a great
    choice. Plus, they have a historical nationalistic bent that fits well. So
    much so I looked for an alternate, later era leader, and Meiji seemed appropriate.
    Emperor Meiji toppled the Tokugawa shogunate and led Japan through unparalleled
    modernization and growth, with a strong underlying nationalistic fervor.

    Acknowledgements: Thanks to Iteen and ukrneal for their ideals on a Defiant
    game and a nationalism-focused game. These, along with some ideas and playtesting
    of my own led to this variant. Thanks also to cpp1 and others who helped shape the
    rules for this game. I hope it works well!

    Roster:
    Arathorn
    Architect
    cpp1
    Charis
    Semi-open slot (Urugharakh will fill if needed; deity experience is a must)

    First player should take up to 40 turns, second player 20, then 10 after that.
    (This is a schedule I normally use for peaceful games. If we go to war real early
    be prepared to adjust) We, uniquely, start out with wheel and horse knowledge.
    Finding out where iron is seems important, as it's needed for our UU (and swords).

    Save File RBP5-Japan-bc4000.zip

    Be careful, and have fun :)
    Charis

    PS - I generated the map to be able to check for a 'dud' by playing through
    a few turns. It turns out the first map seems fine, so I quickly stopped and
    we'll go with that. (Nevertheless, I'll go last in the order and make no early
    comments!)
     
  2. Harleqin

    Harleqin Hippo Power

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    1,555
    Location:
    Western Galicia
    Interesting variant, but far too tough for me. Perhaps in the future. BTW Charis... I've seen some claim that the step from regent to monarch is the hardest. How about the step from monarch to emperor as I feel I'm ready for that pretty soon?

    Good luck on the game. I'll be watching. I have a feel it'll be...hmmm.... interesting :)
     
  3. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    3,778
    Location:
    Illinois
    Umm...Charis? Is there an order inherent in that roster list? It looks alphabetical (or close enough)...you're not listed last, and I'm a bit confused. Do you want me to take the first slot?

    @Harlequin: I'm not Charis, but I found the step from Emperor to Deity to be the hardest. I don' t think the Monarch->Emperor jump is very hard (but I'm a bit biased, as I jumped from Regeant to Emperor, back in the early days....)

    Arathorn
     
  4. Charis

    Charis Realms Beyond

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    1,837
    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    Arathorn the order was as intended, go ahead and start :p
    I'm going last because I played a few turns to verify non-dud start.

    Chances of remaining 3 being alphabetical... 1 in 6, not so bad.

    Two general comments based on the game rules. First you have a good idea from experience about 'when' we'll get our first tribute demand. The difference here from other deity games is that we'll tell them to shove and and we'll be in a war. The second important difference is that when they march through our lands there will be no "DeityROP(TM)". We'll tell them to take a hike. They might, or... they might not. Each player will have to consider the 'shape' of our territory, and whether we invite other civs to wander all over it, or can we (should we?) present a bounded non-convex surface. Oops, that's using Arathorn's language - I mean: we should consider the implications of founding a city that makes our borders "jut out" in a region where the AI will naturally walk through it to get to the other side. Finally, although we won't start with immediate war, we really don't get to 'pick' the timing of it, and if we try a farmer's gambit the game will be over in the blink of an eye. It will need a careful balance of expansion (for power and for resources) and military preparedness.

    I can't much comment on the Regent-Monarch transition, but from the stats it doesn't seem like it really should be that bad. I also think Emp->Deity was definitely hardest. Monarch to Emp is really tough because of the very quick unhappiness, but I think going up to Emperor the game feels like it's moderately "harder" with each step up. But Deity feels like it's a totally new game. (And it is) Other steps leave you yelling "Ouch!!", but that last step leaves you crying "Mommy!!". If you go to a strategy forum and see what lower difficulty strats are being suggested, they tend to work across the board up to Emperor (with Emp itself seeing a few strats not work 'so well'). But very few of the strats or tips given for non-deity carry over to deity.

    If you're thinking about stepping up from Monarch to Emperor, go for it! When not done prematurely that's a very fun and satisfying step up. There's a LOT of games in these forums now that describe tough Monarch and Emperor games, including when the LK series and the RB series made that transition, so you can probably see a lot of comments there on what's different.

    Good luck :p
    Charis
     
  5. Gothmog

    Gothmog Dread Enforcer

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,352
    want to play but... must not overcommit, must not...
     
  6. Charis

    Charis Realms Beyond

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    1,837
    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    You're a smarter man than I, Gothmog!! :lol:

    Hmm... in the interest of having another person curse my challenges... what if you and Urugharakh alternated turns, as you both are interested but rightfully concerned about committment?!??! Time required would be 1/2 of an SG.

    :yeah:

    Charis
    (PS don't construe that as pressure of any kind, I truly don't want to see anyone (else) getting burned out on civ right now!)
     
  7. Gothmog

    Gothmog Dread Enforcer

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,352
    It's really not an issue of getting burned out. Due to my currently hectic RL I just can't get enough! I'm in two SG's right now and I don't want to slow either down, nor this one. I'm sure you'll get lots of interest for that last spot. But if you don't by next week I'll see what I can do about overcommiting myself.
     
  8. Kazin

    Kazin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    16
    This should be a good read, can't wait until you guys start it.
     
  9. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    3,778
    Location:
    Illinois
    I'm not sure if I'll get to this one tonight or not. I've got Menagerie to finish up first, but health is starting to creep back into the younger one's system, so there's a chance I'll be human enough to get to this one, too, tonight. If not tonight, almost assuredly tomorrow night. (And here I was hoping to squeeze in an RBP3 turn, those are MY kinda odds, there.)

    Arathorn
     
  10. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Messages:
    24,160
    Location:
    Baltimore
    Another Charis SG... now if there was an emperor one.. I'd probably join. I've been in a couple of Sulla's monarchy succession games almost a year ago.
     
  11. Charis

    Charis Realms Beyond

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    1,837
    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    Arathorn, I have a feeling RBP3 will still be there when you're free - the situation is dire and folks are a bit tentative about picking it up. And it does sound up your alley :)

    Chieftess, I'll have a slot for you next Emperor game. After this deity warmongering trio I'm almost certain to want to chill out somewhat for the next SG!

    Thank you to lurkers and well wishers, it's nice to know when there are readers. I'll try to add more "story" from time to time as a result :p

    Charis
     
  12. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    3,778
    Location:
    Illinois
    At long last, the people of Meiji begin their striving to become a strong people, a people filled with a sense of duty, a sense of self, and a sense of pride in their nation.

    In 4000 BC, lo those long years ago, the first settler of the Japanese people formed Kyoto, a beacom of what the nations should understand to be the first of many cities from people who take no guff.

    After a mere 500 years, an exploring Japanese warrior met a warrior from another band, a band calling themselves Babylonians, only a short walk to the north. These people are quite reasonable, giving up a work crew and 10 gold, merely for knowledge of how to build circular objects.

    A mere 200 years later, the people of Mao were met, also ignorant of the ways of a circle. They give up knowledge of pointy sticks, food storage (which we'd nearly figured out ourselves), a worker, and 4 gold for such knowledge. Had our sages known such people were so near, we could have waited before trading with Hammurabi. Alas, foresight is never as clear as hindsight.

    Later that year, Pottery and 42 gold found its way to the Babylonian people for the secrets of training warriors, both in general, and with weapons that can travel a distance. This code will surely be useful to such a proud people.

    3000 BC saw the clearing of the forest near the game. This sped the completion of a granary and gave one high-food square so that our people may grow strong.

    By 2470 BC, the Japanese people had expanded to a second city, in the north, near a herd of wild horses. This city was built on a hill for defense, guarded by a brave, proud warrior. The barbarians in the area thought little of his skill, attacking and killing him, raping 57 gold from the Japanese people. For such a proud people, we do not fight against barbarians well, as with that battle, we have now lost two units to barbs, having down a total of 1 hp damage against them.

    We also order out a Chinese warrior, who stepped into our area. Granted, he killed a barbarian who would've pillaged us more, but such incursions are not to be tolerated. Mao, surprisingly, agreed, when he had a warrior next to an undefended city, and could easily have destroyed our fledgling nation.

    2390 was a year of trades, where Meiji sent out a number of emissaries bearing gifts of gold, to minimize our treasury so that sacking barbarians would not get much. 25 gold and a promise of another 100 over the next 20 turns convinced the Babylonians to teach us their mystical ways of worship. This knowledge, one gold and another 20 over the next few hundred years convinced Mao to teach us the art of castle building, as well as anything else our newly masons guild can devise. Hence, the barbs only got one gold from the sack of our cities.

    In 2310, Meiji I was finally growing old. A settler was due from Kyoto soon, and may head west to garner some incense from the hills there. Kyoto requires very special care, as 4+2+4=10, as does 3+3+4, but always 4 food should be achieved the last turn before growth, to maximize the governor's shields upon growth. 9+11=20, so that many units can be formed between settlers. I recommend a warrior (with 3 extra food), then a spear/archer, before starting the next settler.

    VERY soon, however, we will need to stop expanding and start creating units, as war is on the horizon. Kyoto has a barracks to prepare for such eventuality.

    Save at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/rbp5-2150bc.zip

    Arathorn

    PS No map as we don't have map-making yet! :p That, and I forgot to print one. :o
     
  13. cpp1

    cpp1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Our glorious nation!
     
  14. Architect

    Architect Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    337
    2110BC(0) - I am proud. Proud to be a Japanese citizen. Proud to be the leader of our great Japanese Nation. Proud to lead us to glory! Kyoto is indeed a micromanager's paradise and I will do my best to follow the wise words of Arathorn.

    IT: The chinese already found near the incense. Bastards. I'm going to cultural push them.

    2070BC(1) - We enact revenge upon the barbarians and find 25 of our stolen gold.

    IT: Babs start the Oracle.

    2030BC(2) - We meet the Americans.

    1990BC(3) - We found Tokyo two squares from the Chengdu. I defy the chinese agression on rightful Japanese lands.

    1950BC(4) - ...

    1910BC(5) - The russians and babs are at war.

    IT: The babs demand 20g tribute and I tell them to stuff it. They declare war!



    A warrior defends against a bowmen.

    1870BC(6) - I see no less than 5 Bowmen moving towards our borders. I veto temple in Osaka for a barracks.

    1830BC(7) - Trying to regroup forces and defend our cities while archers build.

    1790BC(8) - Edo is founded south of Kyoto

    1750BC(9) - Barracks complete in Osaka.

    IT: We are sold contact to Korea and they offer to sell us contact to the egyptians. I swing alphabet, iron working, horseback riding for contact with the chinese, russians, and babs.. Probably the only chance I would have had to sell them.

    1725BC(10) - We have Iron in our borders just north of Osaka in the mountains.

    1700BC(11) - There are 3 bowmen in sight of our lands. We have 2 archers, 2 spearman and 2 warriors around close to these bowmen. I obtain writing from the russians for Contact with Americans, Horseback riding, Contact with Egyptians and 1g. I trade writing to the Egyptians for 79g.

    1675BC(12) - Our archer defeats a bowmen.

    IT: Our archer beats a bowmen an promotes to an elite (2hp left). The other bowmen retreat at the sight of our glorious troops! (probably because of pressure from the russians)

    1650BC(13) - I'm building another settler in Kyoto.

    1625BC(14) - Babs are retreating.

    1600BC(15) - We produce a settler in Kyoto. I'm going to leave it to the next leader to decide where to found. My suggestion would be to found agressively towards babylon. We need to take advantage of their weakened position against the russians and gain some land. The babs will not accept peace without tribute. I suggest we get a few more archers and go take UR from them. Remember, we can't pay for peace.

    1600BC

    Here's a very rough dotmap. No priority because of the war. Be agressive.
     
  15. cpp1

    cpp1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Got it, but won't be able to finish until tomorrow night.
     
  16. Charis

    Charis Realms Beyond

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    1,837
    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    Sheesh, sure didn't take long for the AI to give us guff.
    Someone forgot to tell them that...

    ... we don't take no guff!!! :hammer:

    Nice start Arathorn. The wheel monopoly never hurts, eh?

    > We also order out a Chinese warrior, who stepped into our
    > area. Granted, he killed a barbarian who would've pillaged us
    > more, but such incursions are not to be tolerated. Mao,
    > surprisingly, agreed, when he had a warrior next to an
    > undefended city, and could easily have destroyed our fledgling nation.

    :eek: Phew! :p

    > VERY soon, however, we will need to stop expanding and start
    > creating units, as war is on the horizon. Kyoto has a barracks
    > to prepare for such eventuality.

    Prophetic!

    Architect, also a nice set of turns.

    > The chinese already found near the incense. Bastards. I'm
    > going to cultural push them.

    That's it! No guff!!

    > The russians and babs are at war.
    Looks like the Russians take no guff either.

    > IT: The babs demand 20g tribute and I tell them to stuff it. They
    > declare war!

    Hammy seems to be a gruff buffoon!

    > I see no less than 5 Bowmen moving towards our borders. I
    > veto temple in Osaka for a barracks.

    :eek:

    >We have Iron in our borders just north of Osaka in the mountains.

    TRULY good news!

    > The other bowmen retreat at the sight of our glorious troops!
    > (probably because of pressure from the russians)

    YAHOO! Who says you have to cave-in on deity!?

    > We produce a settler in Kyoto. I'm going to leave it to the next
    > leader to decide where to found. My suggestion would be to
    > found agressively towards babylon. We need to take
    > advantage of their weakened position against the russians and
    > gain some land.

    That sounds good, but... either this settler or next should almost SURELY go after the iron. Besides the extremely good reason of making swords (reason in itself), it might deny someone, and in this particular game, there's a really key reason... giving no destination spots to anyone that cross through our land. See if someone now where to walk east through our land to head for the iron, it would get us into a ill-timed second war. Any land we grab really must not jut out like a finger (to be chopped off) and if we can hug the coast and grow as a blob, it will help.

    Let me give another example - see those two squares in our territory which are NW of Tokyo? They jut out. Just a tiny bit actually, but anyone going NE from Chengu will cross our squares, and risk a war. At a point where we have extra units, we'll want to plant them on spots like these to discourage incursions. Likewise when we found the red dot east of Osaka, when we have a few troops to spare, position them at the corner where troops would naturally end up cutting across our land. (These 'small points' are suggested after seeing this a lot in my France no-guff game.)

    The problem with the red dot NW of Osaka is that it *REALLY* juts out. Other civs will walk over our land like it's a public highway. It would almost surely lead to an extra war, perhaps at a time like when we have a SOD two squares from UR. I would be prone to settle less aggressively with respect to our nations' border shape, and go a little more densely, and more to the east first. I would probably move the red dot due east of Kyoto one square west (3 steps from capital), then found on the hill next to the iron east of that. The red dot east of Osaka looks good. I also like the red dot near China south of Tokyo. These suggestions sum to 8 cities in a region which doesn't invite trouble. We'll get a ton of trouble from 'tributes' which we can't do much about, but we CAN try to reduce our trouble from war declarations after "get out!"

    Anyway, that's my 2c, use your judgement, and as Architect said, be aggressive :D
    Charis

    (PS I'm commenting now since you've gotten well past my quick starting test, and know as much as I did. The civ 'shape' suggestions and what trouble we're due for are purely based on my France game, and not on this game specifically or on early deity war.)
     
  17. Architect

    Architect Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    337
    The iron is already in our borders and just needs to be hooked up. Charis, do a dotmap of what you said and throw mine out. I really didn't spend enough time on it, hence my term "Rough".
     
  18. Charis

    Charis Realms Beyond

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Messages:
    1,837
    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    Oh, THAT Iron! Didn't see it in the first map, I was referring to the one near eastern coast. Shortage of Iron for AI sounds like a good thing!

    I was more advocating watching our boundary shape than picking on the roughmap :p But ok, here's a picture of what I'm talking about...



    Red dots (A, B, C, D, E, in no major order of preference) are possible city sites. B and D are moderately tight, but nothing ICS like. E is stretching it, a small fill-in half-city. A is important because it can seal our borders. B is important as it secures a second Iron, deny's one, and keeps an AI from sending a settler pair into our territory to claim it. Likewise D and the horse it sits on. I think we'll want "8" rather than "7" cities in this overall region. 'C' can go where shown, or as the arrow shows it, on top of a hill for better defense. The other sites are likely higher priority in that settling near 'C' doesn't force an immediate war, although when we're ready (or when china shows guff, we can capture whatever is settled near there)

    The BLUE SQUARES on the map, (some labeled X, Y, Z) are important to put troops on when we can afford that, to avoid the AI waltzing through our land, risking a war. The Green dots are lower priority, for a more full seal off, after the blue, if and when we can spare the units.

    As shown, this core region constitutes a square with two edges on the water. Guarding the 'corners' of the other sides makes it a region no one will want to 'pass through' to get somewhere else. Leave B or D unsettled for long and we'll see many tresspassers.
    Settling up north would see exactly what is shown now - a Pink warrior tromping all over it - but then it would be our land and require a boot.

    We'll need to cause Babylon more pain to get SOME payment for peace, so killing more troops or razing (not capturing) Ur would do that nicely (even pillaging would do). Founding or capturing up there is an option, but we would probably want to place units on every square to prevent trespassing.

    Good luck!
    Charis
     
  19. cpp1

    cpp1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Summary: The Defiant Nationals are still pursuing glorious war with
    the Babs. We have 2 more cities, a map of the known world, 3 more
    techs, and 1 more worker. We killed 4 Bab bowman, and lost a warrior
    and an archer.

    Preturn: I change lux tax from 30% to 20%. Also mm Kyoto to get warrior
    in 1 turn with +2 food. Would like to unload some gold to get and trade
    Math but everything we have is "doubtful". Decide to send settler to
    city dot A, which will become Satsuma. This seals our borders and gives
    a base to attack that Bab city just N, which turns out to be Akkad. I
    think this is a better target than Ur because it combines city building
    with attacking.

    Goals:
    Hook up horses
    Settle more cities
    Attack Babs and try to get peace
    Get map of the world

    1575BC: Decide to unload some gold to reduce tribute likelihood. Choose
    to buy Math from Korea because they're cheapest and not near us.
    Buy Math from Korea for 180g
    Sell Math to Russia for 48g (all they have)
    Sell Math to America for 38g (all they have)

    Set research to Lit at 10% (40 turns)
    Set lux to 10%
    Road to Osaka finishes, move worker to start road to future Satsuma at
    city dot A. Bab bowman comes into view NE of Osaka.

    (I) Another Bab bowman shows up beside the earlier one.

    1550BC: Change lux to 30% for Keyoto growth. Elite archer fires on 1st Bab
    bowman that showed up. Initially loses, but comes back and survives with
    1hp left. He is covered by 2 spear and settler heading for city dot A.

    (I) Other Bab bowman attacks covering spear and loses. Barb shows up near
    Osaka from Mts SE of Osaka.

    1525BC: Babs got Poly, but no one else has it. Babs require 40g for peace.
    Move spear and settler to city site A. Wounded spear and elite archer
    retreat to Osaka. 2 archers head toward city A to put pressure on Akkad.

    (I) Americans building Oracle. Barb dies on warrior protecting our worker.

    1500BC: Too bad we're at war with the Babs. On regular deity, I'd make peace
    now for 40g, trade Math for Poly, sell Poly around, and finish up by buying
    that Bab worker in their capital.

    Founded Satsuma on city dot A.

    (I) Mongols (who no one has contact with) finished the Colossus. Bab
    bowman enters Akkad after leaving last turn.

    1475BC: Sending archers to Satsuma. Now Babs want 120g for peace, they
    must be more confident for some reason. Boy, our workers are slow. Maybe
    that's because we have ONE native worker and 2 bought workers.

    (I) Chinese are building Oracle. Babs complete Oracle. Babs killed our
    archer in Mts between Satsuma and Akkad. They also lost a bowman attacking
    2nd archer in those Mts. Koreans building Pyramids.

    1450BC:

    Korea has Map Making
    Babs have Map Making and Poly
    China has Map Making and Poly

    I give 156g and 8gpt to China for Poly
    I sell Poly to Egypt for 109g
    I sell Poly, WM, 99g to Korea for WM and Map Making
    Pass around WM for 70g and all WMs (except Bab)

    Net result is 236g for Poly and Map Making and all WMs

    Babs want 80g for peace on the peace check.

    Settler and spear heading city spot D, on top of horses.
    Sending archers to Satsuma in Akkad battle.

    (I) Bab bowman move near Satsuma. China building Great Lighthouse.

    1425BC: Move 2 archers into Satsuma. Move settler and spear into city
    spot D. Russia, China, and Korea showed up with Code of Laws. Egypt is
    behind Map Making, everyone else is equal to us. Buy Russian worker
    for WM, 2gpt and 82g. Sounds expensive but 2gpt is just 2 roads built,
    and we're in dire need of workers. Also, better to spend gold than
    have to refuse tribute. Change Edo from barracks to harbor. This will
    let us trade with all civs except Mongols and help Edo grow. Its shield
    production is pretty low for troops, although that will improve with
    more terrain improvements and citizens.

    (I) Korea building Great Lighthouse. Babs stick a stack of 3 bowman
    outside of Satsuma and 1 more showing behind Akkad. I know there's
    at least 2 more in Akkad besides the showing spear.

    1400BC: Sell WM around for 5g. Attack stack of 3 bowman because that's
    as good as it gets for our archers. Elite archers attacks vet bowman
    and wins with 2hp left. Vet archer attack reg bowman and wins with 3hp
    left and goes elite. Leave last bowman because I can't cover adequately.
    Now "close to a deal" for peace with Babs.

    Osaka building a archer and finally finishing temple.
    Kagoshima found a spot D and starts on harbor.
    Tokyo whips temple
    Sell WM around again for 4g.

    (I) Lost warrior to bowman at Satsuma. Too bad because my other spear
    was just one move away from guarding Satsuma.

    1375BC: New archer from Kyoto to Osaka. Osaka warrior to Satsuma. Worker
    finishes road to Satsuma and works on hooking up horses near Osaka. We
    need horses to stop the covering problems in attacking bowman in open.
    Sell Wm for 4g.

    (I) Babs start moving toward Osaka because Satsuma must be judged too tough.

    1350BC:

    Russia is up Code of Laws, 119g
    America is even, 9g
    Korea is up Code of Laws, 226g
    Egypt is even, 1g
    Bab is even, 82g
    China is up Code of Laws, 255g

    We sell WM around for 4g. We have one exploring warrior who is heading for
    a large southern continent connected to our continent. He should continue
    to explore and update our WM so we can sell it.

    I move another archer to Satsuma. Next leader can decide whether to assault
    Akkad, or move some back to Osaka. Move spear to N of Kyoto for either defence
    of Mts around Osaka or to escort new settler being trained.

    Comments:

    We need move 2 units to take out Babs without having to worry about covering.

    Worker and harbor at Edo should finish at same time to allow trading. All civs
    we know about are connected by coastal tiles.

    Was close to finishing Bab war (and would have stopped it under regular Deity)
    but we're still at war.

    Our bought workers are SLOW

    Did not have any tribute demands while playing.

    Sold WM around each turn after initial trade. Can make 4-5g per turn.

    After horses, out ONE native worker should probably hook up iron.

    Satsuma temple can be whipped in 4 turns.

    Save Game
     
  20. cpp1

    cpp1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    A group of Japanese army vets were sitting around the local watering hole shooting the breeeze.

    "Why the last leader decided to train horses before mining iron, I'll never know. What we need
    are some big old two-handed swords to put the fear of the Meiji into the Babs. They'll
    probably run at the very sight and give us a city or two."

    "I know, first our last leader mumbled something about logistics to Satsuma and then something
    about combined arms fighting with horses, spears, and catapults. Maybe it'll work and maybe it
    won't. All I know is that my bow hasn't failed me yet and I hear that swords are better still.
    What is all this gibberish about logistics, attrition rates, and combined arms fighting anyway?"

    Their seargent, who has been around the block a time or two, decides maybe his men should hear
    something, in case any of them get promoted to higher command. "Well boys, logistics is how fast
    you can get your troops and equipment to the battle front. It's whoever gets there quickest
    with the most that generally wins, regardless of using archers or swords."

    "Now attrition rates are how many Babs are killed compared to how many heroic Japanese are killed.
    As a famous general once said, your job isn't to die for your country, it's to get the Bab to
    die for his country. I have to hand it to the Babs, they have tough bowman. What we need is
    an edge in attack, and our spears and archers, as proud as I am of them, don't quite do it."

    "Well seargent, that's what I've been saying. What we need are some huge iron-pumping swordsmen
    to let the Babs know what's what."

    "That's one way, but let's look at what spears, horses, and cats give you. Spears are your
    defence for cities, mountains tops, and other strategic points. Horses give a fast attacking
    force that can concentrate on any point quickly and retreat if needed. Cats can fire when
    the Babs move next to you and again when they attack. The point is, there's alot of
    flexibility and choices and generals like that."
     

Share This Page