RBP9 - Old School Deity

(0) 3000 – MM to squeeze out one extra gp. Hit enter, and . . .

(1) 2950 - Athens builds a granary and starts training a settler.

(2) 2900 - :sleep:

(3) 2850 – Lux bumped to 50%.

(4) 2800 – Zulu now have IW.

(5) 2750 – Settler completes and another begins. Lux back to 40%.

(6) 2610 - :sleep:

(7) 2670 – Lux up to 50% (this oscillation should continue as long as we stick to this growth pattern).

(8) 2630 – Sparta founded on red dot and begins a worker.

(9) 2590 – Athens completes settler and begins another. The Zulu border is not too far north of us. The spice patch is equidistant between our two civs. Unfortunately, Shaka already has spices connected, which means we won’t have a total monopoly.

(10) 2550 – Move our new settler towards the spice patch.
 
Alright, looking good so far to start. I don't have my PTW CD with me at the moment to look at the save game, is there any chance that we can trade Alphabet and some gold for Iron Working? That would be a good tech to pick up.

Sullla
Reagan
JMB <<< UP NOW
Speaker <<< on deck
Chieftess
 
0 - MM Sparta to use the bg tile instead of just the grassland tile and change production to a warrior instead of the worker. This way we'll be able to produce 1 warrior (for MP duty and exploring) and 1 worker every 10 turns instead of just one worker every 10 turns. Why is the worker roading the tile W of Sparta before mining it?

1 - MM Athens, but still can't get the settler out next turn. The Zulu now have the wheel.

2 - Not much.

3 - The Zulu have settled a location that would have a huge amount of overlap with the location Reagan previously indicated...

4 - Not much.

5 - Found Thermoplyae, there will be some cultural overlap with the Zulu city (IIRC, 3 tiles), but there wasn't any other way to settle around there and still be on the river. Hopefully this won't be too much of a problem because the Zulu aren't particularly well known for building cultural improvements.

6 - Grr... A Zulu settler pair is going to found on the coast and their eventual cultural borders will impact Thermoplyae as well (this makes me want to consider a very limited war with them...)

7 - Fortunately, the Zulu settler pair moves N...

8 - ...And instead, found Intombe there (eliminating the cultural overlap with Thermoplyae). I don't believe that we'll be able to get any more land up north, so all future settlers should head S.

9 - Not much. Between this turn and the previous couple, I founded a couple more cities...

10 - Tech situation is still the same, with Shaka ahead the Wheel, Warrior Code, and Iron Working. Shaka is willing to accept the Alphabet and 27 gold for the Wheel; if it becomes necessary to pay Shaka more in the upcoming turns, we might want to consider getting whatever we can for it rather than nothing.

I can't decide whether it would be better to switch Athens (after our next settler) over to producing a worker every other turn for several turns (we really need to get some of that jungle cleared and the locations to our south should be easy to fill in at our leisure...) or to continue producing settlers until we have settled our entire lands. I am guessing that it is probably better that we continue producing settlers and then concentrate on building up our workforce (this way, we might be able to start building our FP earlier, and will, overall, have more shields being produced sooner). What does everyone else think?

Due to the rather stagnant tech situation, I believe that we are on an island all alone with Shaka... (I didn't get to explore much...)

The next leader might want to consider switching Thermoplyae to a hoplite (it will be ready the same time the city grows) so that our one city with a luxury won't easily be captured by Shaka...

Here's the file: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/OldSchool2150BC.zip

JMB

PS - I hope I didn't go over my allotted number of turns... I have the hardest time trying to keep track of them this early in the game...
 
Here's our current WM (sorry about the low resolution, I didn't want to bog down anyone's internet connection...) and where I think we should found our next three cities... (assuming that we don't want a denser build... (Actually, a denser build might be a better idea because we are on a large map and won't be able to build our FP with just 9 cities...))

Anyhow...


JMB
 
This is looking like the Naked Vikes game all over again, except we're going to face our neighbor's early aggression while he's in a golden age. Not good, not good at all. We might as well start building hoplites and getting ready for the onslaught. Thankfully, we can build a 3-defense unit immediately. Unfortunately, we're not going to be able to choose when our GA gets triggered. Trading for The Wheel might prove more useful than IW because (assuming we have horses) we can build cheap chariots, upgrade them, and them have mobile units to use against the Zulu Impis.

Regarding the Sparta worker -- with non-Industrious civs, I generally road a tile before mining it. Both eventually have to be built, but the road is twice as fast so one receives its benefits for the entire six turns that mining takes. That seemed to be even more important in this game because gold is going to be so helpful with keeping up (or not falling too far behind) in the tech race.

Is any of this illogical thinking?

edit: typo correction
 
Hmm, this situation is not at all what I had in mind when designing the game. Stuck on an island alone with Shaka; not pretty at all. Fortunately it will be only a matter of time until some more civs come sailing by and we can start trading; expect to see some wonders being completed soon by the AI civs. We will definitely need some hoplites ASAP in the northern cities, because with Shaka it's only a matter of time until he starts coming for you. I think we need to trade away Alphabet very soon because it's only a matter of time until Shaka researches it himself. Either Wheel or Iron Working would be good to get. But don't waste our gold buying anything else from Shaka @2nd price ripoff rate. We'll be able to buy a lot of tech and hopefully broker a little when we meet some more civs.

Regarding the Sparta worker -- with non-Industrious civs, I generally road a tile before mining it. Both eventually have to be built, but the road is twice as fast so one receives its benefits for the entire six turns that mining takes. That seemed to be even more important in this game because gold is going to be so helpful with keeping up (or not falling too far behing) in the tech race.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but production is generally far more important than commerce in the early going. That's the reason why you use the luxury rate to keep cities happy, to sacrifice commerce for increased production and food. If mining the tile can shave even one turn off the construction of somethng, it's worthwhile to mine the tile first. That's why I generally either irrigate or mine before roading a tile, especially in the very early game.

Looks kind of dicey at the moment. Balancing our need for more settlers/workers with the need for defense will be trickey. We will need to get a few more cities than what JMB put on the dot map, since we're likely to be working with this territory for some time to come. Don't go ICS crazy, but some tile overlap won't be a problem. Good luck on the next turn Speaker.

Sullla
Reagan
JMB
Speaker <<< UP NOW
Chieftess <<< on deck
 
IT- I plan on adjusting the dotmap a bit to try to fit in a few more cities. I don't like this landmass at all. I am not sure what is going on with Athens' mm. It will not grow for two turns, but builds the settler next turn. :confused:

Zulu complete the Colossus in Zimbabwe.

2110BC (1) Settler built from Athens and a worker ordered up. Price for the Wheel stays the same, so I do not buy.

2070BC (2) Worker finished in Athens and Settler ordered up. MM fixed. Price for the Wheel rises, so I buy it along with a Zulu worker for Alphabet and 185 gold. Anything that can slow down the Zulu will help us, and I doubt they have many workers. Drop luxuries as Athens is now size 4. I generally like to keep my settler factories going from size 5 to 7 as they build their settler and back again, but going from 4-6 here will help keep luxuries low.

2030BC (3) Nothing of consequence.

1990BC (4) Settlers out of Athens will waste 4 shields. Not sure what we can do about this. Warrior produced in Sparta moves toward Athens to help lower luxury rate. Pharsalos founded with way too much overlap with Athens. Oh, the only horse I see is near Isandhlwana, so we will have to put a city up there. My next settler will head that way. Raise luxury rate to avoid riots.

1950BC (5) Delphi Warrior => Warrior (vetoable).

1910BC (6) I accidentally step in Zulu territory because I can't see the black borders amongst the jungle. Athens builds settler and starts another. The settler is heading toward the horses. We might have to do something here about all the shields being wasted in Athens.

1870BC (7) The Zulu only have one more city than us. Their military is far superior to ours, however.

IT- Warrior moving out of Zulu territory is told to leave and then stuck in the top corner of the map.

1830BC (8) Sparta Warrior => Barracks. Sparta should build veteran hoplites for all of our cities now.

IT- Babylon completes the Oracle.

1790BC (9) Saving Private Ryan in Zululand.

1750BC (10) Borders keep expanding in Zululand, so I decided to go for broke and stepped on a mountain next to Zimbabwe, revealing pretty much all of Zululand. Shaka is currently Polite, but was annoyed last turn and polite the turn before. We should probably disband that warrior or bring him straight out. Zulu now have writing.

Conclusion- Settler near Delphi is headed to claim the horses and has a one turn head start on the accompanying warrior. I started building a road in the jungle toward Delphi, although it will take forever. I have left a settler in Pharsalos. Feel free to put him wherever you want down south. Remember to adjust the luxury rate and move from the forest to grassland tile when Athens grows to size 5. We are behind by 4 techs, but have only one fewer city than Shaka. We should probably start building some military (hoplites) because I'm sure he will come after us soon. The jungle will slow down his Impi's big time. Good luck to Chieftess.

RBP9 - 1750BC
 
This is a got it, but I'll play sometime tomorrow afternoon. The jungle is perhaps the only good thing to come out of this. It slows any Zulu advance.
 
Speaker, regarding the settler vs growth. I was partly worried about having the city grow to size 7 before producing the settler (and therefore, losing the extra 10 food in our granary) and secondly, there really was no way to get the settler out any sooner (we don't lose the food we were producing for that round and there was no way for us to get 10 shields out of Athens at that time...).

@ Chieftess: Consider whipping another hoplite out of Thermoplyae once it completes it's current hoplite (in 6 turns) as the city won't be able to grow beyond size 2. Alternatively, you could consider building a worker, but right now, I think the hoplite may be more useful (we will be able to produce plenty of workers from Athens fairly soon). You could also consider doing something similar with other cities that can't grow beyond size 2...

JMB
 
With our landmass getting used up, we really need to concentrate on building up our military. Hoplites and (once the horses are connected) chariots/horses should be the order of the day. Having a lot of land won't do us much good if we can't defend it and Shaka will come for us soon.
 
I was just thinking that perhaps we might want to consider a limited war against Shaka. In this war, our main purpose would be to pillage the heck out of his core with our hoplites (unfortunately, we'd get our Golden Age a bit early, but then again, we'd prevent Shaka from benefiting from a later one). From the look of our continent, I don't think Shaka has any iron, so we'd be facing only archers and horses. In return, we might even be able to get a few techs out of him... (and then we can go after him again 20 turns later...)

What do you guys think?

JMB
 
That's an intriguing idea, JMB. If we have the production capacity to build a few spare hoplites while leaving enough for homeland protection, it might slow Shaka down. Sirian took a similar park-and-pillage approach in one of his always war games and it really sapped his opponents' strength.

One drawback is that we'll have a strong possibility of triggering our golden age, but not triggering the Zulus' (assuming we don't mount any offensive attacks). If we can get horses hooked up so that our GA production is spent making mobile units, this could be a really good strategy.
 
The Zulu will attack with impis. I'm not sure whether they'll attack hoplites or not, but impis are viewed by the AI as attack units, at least on occasion. You might well trigger their GA. If you can trigger it mid-pillage, that'd be an extra bonus.

But I'm not advocating any strategy here. Just letting you know that impis will sometimes attack under AI control....

Arathorn
 
Good point, Arathorn. If the Zulu don't go on the attack, it might be worth sacrificing a hoplite against an impi after the pillaging is well underway/complete in order to trigger their GA.
 
Originally posted by Speaker
If we're going to sacrifice a unit, make it a 10 shield regular warrior instead of a 20 shield veteran hoplite...
Click to expand...

When I made the comment, I was only thinking about what units we'd have in Zulu territory and that we would not expose fragile warriors to pillaging duty. I suppose that when Shaka manages to get some impis near our territory, we could throw a warrior at them when the time is right.
 
ok, playing now. Didn't get to play it this afternoon. I was resting, thinking about the turns, and fell asleep. :crazyeye:


1750BC - Turn 0

Doing some careful micromanagement, I see that we can get an extra coin out of Thermopylae by using the spice :D instead of the hill, as the extra shield is corrupted.

I also consider trading for Warrior Code, as that would give us archers, and put us in line for Horseback riding. Since Chariots can't cross jungle, we'll need Horseback. At this fast paced deity game, I doubt we'll have a shot at The Great Library, even though the Zulus have Literature. I was beat out by the Babs by 3 turns on my last 'normal' deity game. Likewise, I doubt we're in an immediate posistion for a Great Leader.

We can give Shaka 3gpt and 109g for Warrior Code. This gets us archers, and on the path to horsemen. (hopefully, we get that sole horse resource).

I press on...

1725BC - Turn 1

Shaka wants us to leave. He's gone from polite to annoyed (uhoh, I hope it doesn't continue to drop. He could be on to something). The warrior is now trapped in the NW by Mpondo. There's a Zulu Warrior/Settler pair headed down to the mountains by Isandhawala. It may be a race to the horses. I'm also moving the settler down south. I hope there's no barbs...

Trade check: Shaka wants atleast 13gpt and all of our gold for Horseback. Keeping that in note for later.

1700BC - Turn 2

*phew* Shaka's all polite now as we kindly apologize for the "mistake". I guess he sees our warrior's dire prediciment being trapped and all... The warrior/settler stack head south. I can get a warrior in Thermo just so Shaka doesn't get any ideas.

Athens will riot, so I give it an entertainer for a loss of 1gpt. A lux cost 2, and the settler is done in 2 anyway (with or without more shields).

Trade check: Zulu horseback riding is now 12gpt.

1675BC - Turn 3

Hmm, the Zulu settler/warrior pair split. One's definately headed for the horses. We should be on our gaurd soon. Very soon. I beat one's headed 2 south of Intombe.

1650BC - Turn 4

Both warrior/setter pairs turn south, blocking my warrior. So, it'll get to the horse city a bit later. They probably intend to move through our territory to the SE. Ah, I see a hill in the fog. That might be one of the locations. I take a warrior from Athens to move to the hill.

Trade Check: Horseback Riding is now 10gpt. Iron Working, BTW, is 15gpt. For some silly reason, the Zulus fear our warriors! Well, just let them wait until we get our Hoplites! :mwaha:

1625BC - Turn 5

Pharsalos riots. :smoke: I thought I had checked that... Although, I have seen content cities sponteniously riot...
The French build the Pyramids.

And, the warrior/settler pair are on the hill, once again blocking my warrior. I best settler now... Knossos is founded. I politely ask Shaka to remove his forces, and he complies. The settler in the SE is also in place.

The tech prices are still dropping 1gpt per turn (that sounded redundant).
This time, I do raise the luxs so that Athen's spt isn't affected.

1600BC - Turn 6

The Zulu settler/warrior pairs head home, apparently dejected that they couldn't get the horses. Argos is founded. Thermopylae also builds our first hoplite unit! Athens is set to build a settler in two, and with the island nearly settled, a fishing village could go on the hill just to get more commerce from the coast and sea.

1575BC - Turn 7

Dehli builds The Great Library.

:whipped: Cracked out the whip. Whipped out a hoplite in Thermopylae.

It also looks like Horseback Riding has leveled off at 7gpt. IW is at 12gpt. Cerimonial Burial is a mere 102g. I decline as I don't think we'd need it just yet, and I want to see if prices drop.

1550BC - Turn 8

IT: nothing much.

Looks like Horseback just went down, but only because we have more gold. It's still going to take us quite a while to connect the horses though, so I don't think it's worth it. I decide to take Cerimonial Burial for 102g. That way, if we want to build up Athens for future shields, we can supply it with a temple. Shaka would give Iron working for 16gpt and 75g.

1525BC - Turn 9

IT: nothing much

Zulu iron goes to 15gpt. Horseback to 11. (both are all of our gold at the base cost) Mysticism at 7gpt, and Masonry at 8gpt. He won't trade Writing.

1500BC - Turn 10

IT: nothing much

The prices for IW and HBR are once against going down about 1gpt per turn. I also moved the lux slider down one to get some extra GPT. It can be moved to 0, but an entertainer would need to be hired in Sparta. I also whipped another hoplite in Delphi.

I also have a warrior and settler S of Argos, which are moving to the last spot on the dot map. There's also a settler west of Athens that will found a coastal city. Athens is currently set to workers.

We could go for Horseback Riding, but it would take nearly 20 turns at this rate to connect the horses (with our current workers). We could also trade for Iron Working (a bit more risky, being that it's an expensive tech) and hope there's iron nearby. A good war and taking their jungle cities could net us some nice techs. Granted, we're probably nearly an era behind by now. But, we are at the point where we can start building workers, hoplites, and some archers.

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