Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
And the big map so the readers can see what's going on:
Sullla
Reagan <<< UP NOW
JMB <<< on deck
Speaker
Chieftess
Sullla
Reagan <<< UP NOW
JMB <<< on deck
Speaker
Chieftess
RBP9 - Old School Deity
- Thread starter Sullla
- Start date
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Reagan, are you there? Or anyone else on the team?
Must be a busy weekend for everyone.
Must be a busy weekend for everyone.
I am almost done with my turn. I had hoped to play soon enough today that I wouldn't have to clutter the thread with back-to-back "I got it" and turn results messages. That plan was derailed by the overwhelming need for sleep occasioned by a very late (but successful) date last night/this morning.
As a preview . . . how would everyone feel if I took two Zulu cities during my turn?
As a preview . . . how would everyone feel if I took two Zulu cities during my turn?
(0) 350 Heck yeah, lets go to war baby! Our MDIs and three hoplites (including our elite) head into Zulu territory after we declare war through the diplo screen. Pharsolos will riot this turn and bumping the lux tax wont work, so I hire a tax collector there and swap it from duct to settler (to fill in the Isand spot) and MM Athens and Sparta so Phar wont starve. Corinth swaps to market. It has plenty of 2-food tiles under its jungle and can use the extra production that comes from working non-coastal tiles.
(1) 330 Our horses-guarding hoplite holds off two horsie attacks and promotes! Athens: MDI->MDI. Delphi: rax->hoplite (for MP). Mycenae: worker->worker. Our palace gets a yard. India completes Leos. Two MDIs take out two impis and were next to Isand with a nice force. Were hurting for cash and map trading only squeezes out 2gpt. I check our active deals with the hope that we have some gpt trades expiring soon but, alas, we dont. This could get dicey! We have to hold out five more turns until Spartas market (Sparta Mart) completes.
(2) 310 We lose the warrior that was trapped behind enemy lines. Pharsolos: settler->market. Russia completes Cops. Two vets and one regular MDI beat impis, one vet loses to an impi, one regular loses to a warrior, then a regular defeats the warrior and we raze Isand! We get *five* slaves but no gold. Our workers start chopping forest to help Pharsolos market build. After map trades, and hiring another tax man in about-to-riot Delphi, we actually make 1gp this turn.
(3) 290 A zulu horse attacks a hoplite across a river and takes it out without a scratch while promoting to elite. Ugh. We retaliate by promoting a regular MDI while taking out an archer. With more production coming from its newly acquired tiles, Knossos swaps to courthouse. We are now able to trade with Egypt. Unfortunately, Shaka is already trading spices to her. Well get another source hooked-up ASAP in case we gain trading access to the other civs. With a bit of MM, were back to break-even cash flow now.
(4) 270 We defeat an impi and a horse IT. Athens: MDI->MDI. Mycenae: worker->rax. French complete Bachs.
(5) 250 A zulu archer impales itself on a now-elite hoplite. Sparta: market->MDI. Thermo: rax->hoplite. Delphi: hoplite->hoplite. Zulu found Umtata near the spot where Isand was. It will be gone in a couple of turns and we can found a new city nearby.
(6) 230 Our horse kills a major SoD landing party next to Knossos (one regular warrior). Moved troops and got workers into position to road another spices tile.
(7) 210 We kill three impis and a horse and cause one impi to retreat with our mighty elite defending hoplite, yet no great leader emerges.
(8) 190 The RNG plays hell with us and we lose three highly improbable combat rounds on defense. We exact revenge by razing Umtata. We found Ephesus just south of the ruins. It begins work on a worker, but could stand to swap to walls because it will likely become the favorite Zulu target in future wars. Having done all the damage our scattered and tattered forces can do for a few turns, I pick off three stray Zulu units in the field and then accept peace on the following terms: Engineering+Chivalry+19gp+WM for Theology. We can now trade with the Aztecs, but they have nothing to offer for our spices. There is a two-fer opportunity for Invention, but we dont have the economic power to swing it quite yet.
(9) 170 Japan demands 20gp+TM. I grudgingly pay them off. Athens: MDI->MDI.
(10) 150 Sparta: MDI->MDI. Our spare spices come online.
I hope my comment about taking two cities didnt get anyones hopes up too much.
As it worked out, that was a positive set of circumstances because it switched us from having to pay to make the tech swap to us getting to make the swap and pocket some gold to boot. If we crank out a few more MDIs and match them up with some hoplites, we should be able to start our trek to get into position for another attack in twenty turns when our Zulu peace treaty expires. Were down to only one two-fer opportunity at the moment but cant make it because we dont have enough money. Maybe when our current per-turn deal expires in eight turns well be able to do it. We still have a lot of jungle chopping to do, so dont forget to squeeze some workers out in future turns. Thermo and Corinth are good candidates for that. I started western galley on a trip back down to the southern tip of our continent with the hope that the sea squares around Tugela could serve as a place for a suicide run. Alternatively, having the galley there will allow us to ferry some troops over to the island for an invasion.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/RBP9_150BC.zip
(1) 330 Our horses-guarding hoplite holds off two horsie attacks and promotes! Athens: MDI->MDI. Delphi: rax->hoplite (for MP). Mycenae: worker->worker. Our palace gets a yard. India completes Leos. Two MDIs take out two impis and were next to Isand with a nice force. Were hurting for cash and map trading only squeezes out 2gpt. I check our active deals with the hope that we have some gpt trades expiring soon but, alas, we dont. This could get dicey! We have to hold out five more turns until Spartas market (Sparta Mart) completes.
(2) 310 We lose the warrior that was trapped behind enemy lines. Pharsolos: settler->market. Russia completes Cops. Two vets and one regular MDI beat impis, one vet loses to an impi, one regular loses to a warrior, then a regular defeats the warrior and we raze Isand! We get *five* slaves but no gold. Our workers start chopping forest to help Pharsolos market build. After map trades, and hiring another tax man in about-to-riot Delphi, we actually make 1gp this turn.
(3) 290 A zulu horse attacks a hoplite across a river and takes it out without a scratch while promoting to elite. Ugh. We retaliate by promoting a regular MDI while taking out an archer. With more production coming from its newly acquired tiles, Knossos swaps to courthouse. We are now able to trade with Egypt. Unfortunately, Shaka is already trading spices to her. Well get another source hooked-up ASAP in case we gain trading access to the other civs. With a bit of MM, were back to break-even cash flow now.
(4) 270 We defeat an impi and a horse IT. Athens: MDI->MDI. Mycenae: worker->rax. French complete Bachs.
(5) 250 A zulu archer impales itself on a now-elite hoplite. Sparta: market->MDI. Thermo: rax->hoplite. Delphi: hoplite->hoplite. Zulu found Umtata near the spot where Isand was. It will be gone in a couple of turns and we can found a new city nearby.
(6) 230 Our horse kills a major SoD landing party next to Knossos (one regular warrior).
Moved troops and got workers into position to road another spices tile.(7) 210 We kill three impis and a horse and cause one impi to retreat with our mighty elite defending hoplite, yet no great leader emerges.
(8) 190 The RNG plays hell with us and we lose three highly improbable combat rounds on defense. We exact revenge by razing Umtata. We found Ephesus just south of the ruins. It begins work on a worker, but could stand to swap to walls because it will likely become the favorite Zulu target in future wars. Having done all the damage our scattered and tattered forces can do for a few turns, I pick off three stray Zulu units in the field and then accept peace on the following terms: Engineering+Chivalry+19gp+WM for Theology. We can now trade with the Aztecs, but they have nothing to offer for our spices. There is a two-fer opportunity for Invention, but we dont have the economic power to swing it quite yet.
(9) 170 Japan demands 20gp+TM. I grudgingly pay them off. Athens: MDI->MDI.
(10) 150 Sparta: MDI->MDI. Our spare spices come online.
I hope my comment about taking two cities didnt get anyones hopes up too much.
As it worked out, that was a positive set of circumstances because it switched us from having to pay to make the tech swap to us getting to make the swap and pocket some gold to boot. If we crank out a few more MDIs and match them up with some hoplites, we should be able to start our trek to get into position for another attack in twenty turns when our Zulu peace treaty expires. Were down to only one two-fer opportunity at the moment but cant make it because we dont have enough money. Maybe when our current per-turn deal expires in eight turns well be able to do it. We still have a lot of jungle chopping to do, so dont forget to squeeze some workers out in future turns. Thermo and Corinth are good candidates for that. I started western galley on a trip back down to the southern tip of our continent with the hope that the sea squares around Tugela could serve as a place for a suicide run. Alternatively, having the galley there will allow us to ferry some troops over to the island for an invasion.http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/RBP9_150BC.zip
The Eternal Man
Chieftain
Hmmm, I don't know. Fast, yes. Faster than the PTW standard tech pace, most certainly. But I'm still not convinced that it's as fast as it was before. The next turn should show it : if the AIs are in the industrial age by then, 50-100 AD, then I'll be convinced. But this one actually looks like it's going to take a few hundred years longer than that.
It could just be the removal of some of the 'screw you' factors, but something has changed. It certainly didn't used to be possible to keep even in tech like that, but that's because of the much uncreased possibility of 2fers, I think. I suspect something even closer akin to the old pace might now require an AI cost factor of 50%, or even lower, to compensate for the other factors.
However, I somewhat doubt that anyone will feel the need to test that theory, one game at this speed will be quite enough to make you all glad the game has moved on since the days of temple-factory-coal plant-spaceship part (I think I actually had a city that did that, in Epic 4. Scary, to realise a build order like that isn't exaggerated).
JJ
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
First off, I should compliment Reagan on a very nice job on that last turn. We probably could have just captured Isandhlwana rather than razing it, but there's nothing wrong with wiping out that city's cultural memory and putting a fresh one of our own cities in its place. We're still relatively close to the tech leaders on our continent, behind the other one(s?) As Delphi, Corinth, and Thermo get hacked out of the jungle, our production's going to increase by a huge amount (FP in Thermo? that would be good to start very soon) And we'll also want to revolt to Republic as soon as we can, in about 8 turns when our gpt deals wear off. We've still got a realistic chance to win this game; if it weren't for the faster tech pace, I'd say it was already in the bag.
Regarding that tech pace: yeah, it's faster than a typical Deity game, but it ain't no 1.21f Deity. JJ is completely right in that repect. It seems that the hyper-fast pace wasn't just because the techs were cheaper, it was due to the way that tech devalued and the "screw you" factor against the human player. That is by far the most interesting conclusion to come out of this game so far, and it shows what a good job Firaxis did with finally getting the balance right with the 1.29f patch for Civ3.
Good luck JMB.
Sullla
Reagan
JMB <<< UP NOW
Speaker <<< on deck
Chieftess
Regarding that tech pace: yeah, it's faster than a typical Deity game, but it ain't no 1.21f Deity. JJ is completely right in that repect. It seems that the hyper-fast pace wasn't just because the techs were cheaper, it was due to the way that tech devalued and the "screw you" factor against the human player. That is by far the most interesting conclusion to come out of this game so far, and it shows what a good job Firaxis did with finally getting the balance right with the 1.29f patch for Civ3.
Good luck JMB.
Sullla
Reagan
JMB <<< UP NOW
Speaker <<< on deck
Chieftess
Thanks for the compliments, Sullla. You set it up and I just played it out. I debated awhile before finally deciding to raze Isand. I went with the raze option because (1) we could use a slave or two (the settler being there was just a bonus), (2) we were facing cultural pressure and would have had to hold the city for quite awhile as we nibble away at the Zulus one or two cities at a time, (3) moving one square to the southeast put the new city within one turn's moves of two cities, and (4) moving one square to the southeast provided more opportunities for a tighter build, which will let us make the most of the cramped quarters in which we find ourselves.
Regarding the FP, we either need to decide that is the purpose to which our (hopefully we'll get one) first/only great leader will be dedicated or we need to get started building the FP quickly. Putting the FP in the Ulundi area seems like it would provide more benefit than building in Thermo, but perhaps not enough to merit waiting until we have a city in that area. Unfortunately, our only two elite units are defenders, so it will be a gamble if we decide to wait for a leader to build the FP.
Regarding the FP, we either need to decide that is the purpose to which our (hopefully we'll get one) first/only great leader will be dedicated or we need to get started building the FP quickly. Putting the FP in the Ulundi area seems like it would provide more benefit than building in Thermo, but perhaps not enough to merit waiting until we have a city in that area. Unfortunately, our only two elite units are defenders, so it will be a gamble if we decide to wait for a leader to build the FP.
150 BC - I consider purchasing furs from Egypt, but it doesn't appear to make sense yet, so I hold off... Since we are no longer at war, I change Athens from a Med Inf to a cathedral. Same for Sparta. I change the build orders in several other cities as well.
130 BC - Not much. IBT, Grr...
Shaka has already traded away another of his spices to the Japanese before we even get the chance.
110 BC - Not much. Whoops, I let Pharalos riot this turn.
90 BC - Not much.
70 BC - Not much. IBT, Egypt demands our TM and 23 gold. Seeings as we still owe her 37 gpt for 4-5 more turns, I refuse, and Cleo declares war. Bonus!
50 BC - I could trade for invention this turn, but the AIs want almost all of our gold and > 50 gpt. This is a ridiculous price and I don't make any deals. Perhaps Cleo will give us a discount after we kill several of her troops.
30 BC - Oops. I forgot that we had Republic and wanted to revolt as soon as possible. Sorry about that. I revolt this turn and we get a 5 turn anarchy.
10 BC - Not much.
10 AD - Not much. IBT, we get contact with Caesar. He offers contact with the Iroquois for 40 gold. I decline for now... We get contact with Gandhi as well, offering the same deal as Caesar. Again, we decline. Babylon comes along offering the same, we decline. Next Joanie contacts us, offering the same deal. Then Russia, offering the same. IBT, the Indians begin Shakespeare's.
30 AD - We dial up Joanie, and offer 25 gold for contact with the Iroquois. Then offer Hiawatha Chivalry, contact with the Zulu and 30 gold for his WM. Trade around WMs. Spices to Joanie for 105 gold and 9 gpt. Education (@ last) from Germany for our WM, 290 gold, and 15 gpt. Education, 2 gpt, 31 gold, and our WM to Shaka for Invention (@ last). Wow, these techs are really expensive, even at last civ prices! IBT, the Russians begin Smiths!!
50 AD - Not much. Knossos is rioting because we needed the extra gpt to make the deal with Shaka. I have rearranged the tiles so that it will be fine next turn (I think...). We should become a Republic next turn and there should be at least one brokering opportunity (provided our income is high enough). So check carefully to see what we can pull off. If necessary, we can also sell our last set of spices. I have the workers on the hills outside of Thermo to road the tile and then hook up some more spices. Unfortunately, I didn't give much thought to the FP, but I think we should probably switch Thermo from the granary to the FP and concentrate on improving the tiles up that way so that we can get it built ASAP.
Here's the file: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/RBP9OS50AD.zip
Sullla
Reagan
JMB
Speaker <<< UP NOW
Chieftess <<< on deck
Good luck Speaker! Hopefully you won't be as absentminded as me...
JMB
130 BC - Not much. IBT, Grr...
Shaka has already traded away another of his spices to the Japanese before we even get the chance.110 BC - Not much. Whoops, I let Pharalos riot this turn.
90 BC - Not much.
70 BC - Not much. IBT, Egypt demands our TM and 23 gold. Seeings as we still owe her 37 gpt for 4-5 more turns, I refuse, and Cleo declares war. Bonus!
50 BC - I could trade for invention this turn, but the AIs want almost all of our gold and > 50 gpt. This is a ridiculous price and I don't make any deals. Perhaps Cleo will give us a discount after we kill several of her troops.
30 BC - Oops. I forgot that we had Republic and wanted to revolt as soon as possible. Sorry about that. I revolt this turn and we get a 5 turn anarchy.
10 BC - Not much.
10 AD - Not much. IBT, we get contact with Caesar. He offers contact with the Iroquois for 40 gold. I decline for now... We get contact with Gandhi as well, offering the same deal as Caesar. Again, we decline. Babylon comes along offering the same, we decline. Next Joanie contacts us, offering the same deal. Then Russia, offering the same. IBT, the Indians begin Shakespeare's.
30 AD - We dial up Joanie, and offer 25 gold for contact with the Iroquois. Then offer Hiawatha Chivalry, contact with the Zulu and 30 gold for his WM. Trade around WMs. Spices to Joanie for 105 gold and 9 gpt. Education (@ last) from Germany for our WM, 290 gold, and 15 gpt. Education, 2 gpt, 31 gold, and our WM to Shaka for Invention (@ last). Wow, these techs are really expensive, even at last civ prices! IBT, the Russians begin Smiths!!
50 AD - Not much. Knossos is rioting because we needed the extra gpt to make the deal with Shaka. I have rearranged the tiles so that it will be fine next turn (I think...). We should become a Republic next turn and there should be at least one brokering opportunity (provided our income is high enough). So check carefully to see what we can pull off. If necessary, we can also sell our last set of spices. I have the workers on the hills outside of Thermo to road the tile and then hook up some more spices. Unfortunately, I didn't give much thought to the FP, but I think we should probably switch Thermo from the granary to the FP and concentrate on improving the tiles up that way so that we can get it built ASAP.
Here's the file: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/RBP9OS50AD.zip
Sullla
Reagan
JMB
Speaker <<< UP NOW
Chieftess <<< on deck
Good luck Speaker! Hopefully you won't be as absentminded as me...
JMB
Sorry, but I'm going to have to ask to be skipped again. 
I could have played tonight (finished one paper) but tomorrow and the next day I will be up to my ears in school work so I can finish by Friday. After that I will be a college senior and will be free to play as much Civ3 as I want to.
I could have played tonight (finished one paper) but tomorrow and the next day I will be up to my ears in school work so I can finish by Friday. After that I will be a college senior and will be free to play as much Civ3 as I want to.It's looking like we may have a tougher time pulling a free tech slingshot in the Industrial Age than we did in the MA. With so many civs in the game, though, there's bound to be a couple who will still lack whatever free tech we pull.
I think we should continue to build up our military. We have no offensive units in the heart of our territory. What happens when Egypt lands some mobile units, we can't kill them, and they run rampant on pillaging duty? If we move our mobile units south to guard against that, who's going to attack the Zulu when our cease fire agreement expires in a few turns? I consider us to be at war until the Zulu are wiped off our continent. The sooner that is accomplished, the sooner we can start improving the north half of our soon-to-be-acquired territory.
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
I took a look at the game, and we are really in excellent shape here. The prices look expensive, but that's because this IS a large-sized map and we still aren't in a Republic yet. Once we come out of anarchy and can start generating some real money, they won't seem high at all.
Speaking of that, I checked to see what our production will look like when we come out of anarchy next turn. We'll have to run 20% luxuries, but we will be in position to make about +70gpt, which will be an enormous leap in income. And despite having the lowest population and territory, we will be up to 9th in productivity once we come out of anarchy. Against Deity opponents! That's wonderful progress.
Chieftess, we're in great position to swing a brokerage deal on your turn once we get out of anarchy. If we send our only horses to France, we can get Banking for a pittance and exchange Banking around @4th (I think) price for Astronomy, Gunpowder, Printing Press, and Music Theory. To me, that would be well worth sending away our only horses, as we can use MDI against the Zulu. In any case, there are plenty of opportunities for us to catch up in tech; just stick to the non-optional techs for the most part and put in position for the Nationalism slingshot if at all possible.
Here's a map of the civ which will almost certainly be our main space race foe, #1 civ Babylon:
Sullla <<< on deck
Reagan
JMB
Speaker
Chieftess <<< UP NOW
Speaking of that, I checked to see what our production will look like when we come out of anarchy next turn. We'll have to run 20% luxuries, but we will be in position to make about +70gpt, which will be an enormous leap in income. And despite having the lowest population and territory, we will be up to 9th in productivity once we come out of anarchy. Against Deity opponents! That's wonderful progress.
Chieftess, we're in great position to swing a brokerage deal on your turn once we get out of anarchy. If we send our only horses to France, we can get Banking for a pittance and exchange Banking around @4th (I think) price for Astronomy, Gunpowder, Printing Press, and Music Theory. To me, that would be well worth sending away our only horses, as we can use MDI against the Zulu. In any case, there are plenty of opportunities for us to catch up in tech; just stick to the non-optional techs for the most part and put in position for the Nationalism slingshot if at all possible.
Here's a map of the civ which will almost certainly be our main space race foe, #1 civ Babylon:
Sullla <<< on deck
Reagan
JMB
Speaker
Chieftess <<< UP NOW
Originally posted by Speaker
Sorry, but I'm going to have to ask to be skipped again.
Take it from this college grad. Don't be fooled by your senior year.
Anyway, I'll put down my programming and get the save.
Turn 0
Nothing much to do except to press enter and get us out of anarchy
70AD - Turn 1
IT: Watch a knight head out of Texcoco. Order restored in Knossoss. We are a republic! [dance]
France has completed Magellan's Voyage in Orleans!
Babylon, India start Shakespeare's.
India starts Smith's Trade
Our income is a whopping +63gpt! Time for a little micromanagement to put those clowns to work. After raising the lux to 20%, I'm able to get our gpt back up to +61gpt. I could get it to 68gpt, but Sparta's growth would be halted.
If I did my chart right, 5 civs have banking (that's at 5th civ price, right?). Per the suggestion, we sell our only pretty horsies to France, along with 7gpt and 7g for Banking. (kind of reminds me of the one deal I wanted to do in the 2nd Demogame, but no one wanted to risk it - for a fairly unneeded lux.
)
Now, let's go shopping! First up are the Iroquois, who have no new techs to give us. Egypt still refuses our envoy. Rome Looks a litte promising.
Rome:
EXPORT: Banking, Spices, WM, 51gpt
IMPORT: Gunpowder, Astronomy
Japan wants a bit more than Rome, but even giving them everything we've got doesn't appease them.
It's hefty, but considering that Gunpowder was 45gpt+ from most civs, and astro was off the charts, it's almost like 2 techs for the price of 3. We also have Saltpeter!! The Zulus do not!
Zulus would give Music Theory, Printing Press, WM and 1g for Banking.
Many of the civs already have Chem, Econ and Nav. We could sell Banking to Japan for Chem if we had more gold, but they will only give us printing press and music theory. They would give us horses, instead.
So, it's back to the origanal German trade, since we're still a ways away from Mil. Trad. (even if we tried). we get Dyes (sounds like that DG2 trade...), Music Theory, Printing Press and some gold for Banking.
Any civs we can trade with are either broke, or have nothing to trade us.
After trading the Dyes, I notice something odd. Cities show as having more unhappiness, but when I micromanage, it returns to normal. A bug perhaps?
90AD - Turn 2
IT: Russians, Babs start Smith Trade.
nada
110AD - Turn 3
IT: Germans and Aztecs sign a peace treaty. Japanese, Germans start Smith Trade. I also see a couple of Zulu units are seen at the edge of their border.
I start sending workers to road another spice source. Also do some small micromanagement to eek out a few more gpt.
130AD - Turn 4
Egyptians start Shakespeare's.
Zulus would give us a world map, 1gpt and 22g for Astro.
Germans would give us Economics for Astro.
I'm inclined to go with the Zulu deal, even though it locks us in for 20 turns, since I doubt we'll be using wealth much, if at all. We now have a 10gpt surplus.
150AD - Turn 5
Egyptians are willing to talk, but they still want all of our gold and about half of our income. Nothing much else.
170AD - Turn 6
IT: French are building Newton's. It looks like they're almost at the Industrial age.
The Aztecs would actually give us a world map, 33g, and chemistry for our only saltpeter and iron resources. It's so tempting, but I'll get that extra spice hooked up first. We could probably go without saltpeter, however, it does seem that the Zulus are getting iron from somewhere.
Knossos will riot next turn. I bump up the lux, but we'll be losing 8gpt.
190AD - Turn 7
We have our extra spices online! Back to the Aztec trade. (here's hoping!) Well, we can get chem for Spices and Iron and can leave out the saltpeter. Germany still doesn't have chem, but probably won't be able to give us much. We are locked in a Zulu deal for 18 turns, though. There is an extra iron resource just outside of Ephesus that we can use a Zulu worker to build a colony on. I decide the colony is worth it for the techs, since we're in somewhat of a race for the Industrial Age.
Now it's time for some lux slider/Spice Trader magic. Moving down temporarily, we see that our spices will be worth 3gpt and 17g to the Aztecs.
Russians - 7gpt, 7g
Babylon - 14gpt, 13g
India - WM, 2g (sure....)
Germany - WM (sure....)
We are currently at a 9gpt deficit at 30% lux. Switching to 20% temporarily, we can now trade with the Aztecs.
Chemistry for Iron, 3gpt, 17g.
Babylon: 14gpt, 13g for spices, and the lux trade bug kicks in yet again. Knossos had 3 happy, 1 content, and 2 unhappy before micromaniging. MM'ing, it now has 3 happy and 3 unhappy. This is at 20%, so it's still optimal.
Out of curiosity, we would be MAKING 2gpt at 30% lux! 20% is safe, and we're now making 20gpt! The Spice Traders Guild is in full swing! (let's see if Sulla remembers that one about the STG). I also switched a couple of cities to Med. Inf in preparation for this trade. The coloy will be active in a few turns.
And, this just opened up a whole new set of trades!
Zulus:
IMPORT: WM, 5g, ( Economics OR Navigation )
EXPORT: Chemistry
Germany:
IMPORT: Economics, Navigation
EXPORT: Chemistry, (15gpt, 7g OR Saltpeter)
The Iroquois have iron, which we can get in a trade when we get Navigation. The Aztecs don't have iron (apparently, I missed a trade route, and they did..), AND have some advanced techs. So, we'll do this. Since Economics is pretty much useless right now, we'll go with the Zulu trade.
Zulus - trade for Navigation.
Iroquois - Trade Astro and Banking (they're really behind anyway. At best, it will help to depriciate other tech costs if they catch up) for Iron and 4g.
Now all we have to do is wait for an iron trade to end, and use it as a bargaining chip. This world is one wicked web of iron!
210AD - Turn 8
The Russians & Babs are building Newton's.
After building a market in Delphi, we have an amazing 33gpt! And that's with a tech trade for 2 techs!
230AD - Turn 9
IT: Romans are building Shakespeare's.
Our spices will be online next turn.
250AD - Turn 10
IT: Rome starts Smith Trade. Babylon reaches the Industrial Age! RATS!!!!
I decide to establish an embassy with Babylon, just incase we need it.
We have an extra iron and a spice waiting to be trading once there's an opening. hopefully this will give us enough to pick up on a few techs. I wasn't sure if we should put the 2 coastal tiles from Sparta onto the gold hills. It's growing slowly anyway.. But, we did pick up on some techs, and are 4 away from the Industrial age. The lux slider could be moved down to 10% if we aren't going to trade our only spice (some trades will end soon, and Thermo expands in 13 turns). Since we have an extra iron, we could use that and maybe saltpeter as bargaining chips. The Saltpeter could be sold after we upgrade/build some muskets. We're still at war with Egypt though. We're also strong compared to the Zulus according to F3.
250AD
Nothing much to do except to press enter and get us out of anarchy
70AD - Turn 1
IT: Watch a knight head out of Texcoco. Order restored in Knossoss. We are a republic! [dance]
France has completed Magellan's Voyage in Orleans!
Babylon, India start Shakespeare's.
India starts Smith's Trade
Our income is a whopping +63gpt! Time for a little micromanagement to put those clowns to work. After raising the lux to 20%, I'm able to get our gpt back up to +61gpt. I could get it to 68gpt, but Sparta's growth would be halted.
If I did my chart right, 5 civs have banking (that's at 5th civ price, right?). Per the suggestion, we sell our only pretty horsies to France, along with 7gpt and 7g for Banking. (kind of reminds me of the one deal I wanted to do in the 2nd Demogame, but no one wanted to risk it - for a fairly unneeded lux.
)Now, let's go shopping! First up are the Iroquois, who have no new techs to give us. Egypt still refuses our envoy. Rome Looks a litte promising.
Rome:
EXPORT: Banking, Spices, WM, 51gpt
IMPORT: Gunpowder, Astronomy
Japan wants a bit more than Rome, but even giving them everything we've got doesn't appease them.
It's hefty, but considering that Gunpowder was 45gpt+ from most civs, and astro was off the charts, it's almost like 2 techs for the price of 3. We also have Saltpeter!! The Zulus do not!
Zulus would give Music Theory, Printing Press, WM and 1g for Banking.
Many of the civs already have Chem, Econ and Nav. We could sell Banking to Japan for Chem if we had more gold, but they will only give us printing press and music theory. They would give us horses, instead.
So, it's back to the origanal German trade, since we're still a ways away from Mil. Trad. (even if we tried). we get Dyes (sounds like that DG2 trade...), Music Theory, Printing Press and some gold for Banking.
Any civs we can trade with are either broke, or have nothing to trade us.
After trading the Dyes, I notice something odd. Cities show as having more unhappiness, but when I micromanage, it returns to normal. A bug perhaps?
90AD - Turn 2
IT: Russians, Babs start Smith Trade.
nada
110AD - Turn 3
IT: Germans and Aztecs sign a peace treaty. Japanese, Germans start Smith Trade. I also see a couple of Zulu units are seen at the edge of their border.
I start sending workers to road another spice source. Also do some small micromanagement to eek out a few more gpt.
130AD - Turn 4
Egyptians start Shakespeare's.
Zulus would give us a world map, 1gpt and 22g for Astro.
Germans would give us Economics for Astro.
I'm inclined to go with the Zulu deal, even though it locks us in for 20 turns, since I doubt we'll be using wealth much, if at all. We now have a 10gpt surplus.
150AD - Turn 5
Egyptians are willing to talk, but they still want all of our gold and about half of our income. Nothing much else.
170AD - Turn 6
IT: French are building Newton's. It looks like they're almost at the Industrial age.
The Aztecs would actually give us a world map, 33g, and chemistry for our only saltpeter and iron resources. It's so tempting, but I'll get that extra spice hooked up first. We could probably go without saltpeter, however, it does seem that the Zulus are getting iron from somewhere.
Knossos will riot next turn. I bump up the lux, but we'll be losing 8gpt.
190AD - Turn 7
We have our extra spices online! Back to the Aztec trade. (here's hoping!) Well, we can get chem for Spices and Iron and can leave out the saltpeter. Germany still doesn't have chem, but probably won't be able to give us much. We are locked in a Zulu deal for 18 turns, though. There is an extra iron resource just outside of Ephesus that we can use a Zulu worker to build a colony on. I decide the colony is worth it for the techs, since we're in somewhat of a race for the Industrial Age.
Now it's time for some lux slider/Spice Trader magic.
Moving down temporarily, we see that our spices will be worth 3gpt and 17g to the Aztecs.Russians - 7gpt, 7g
Babylon - 14gpt, 13g
India - WM, 2g (sure....)
Germany - WM (sure....)
We are currently at a 9gpt deficit at 30% lux. Switching to 20% temporarily, we can now trade with the Aztecs.
Chemistry for Iron, 3gpt, 17g.
Babylon: 14gpt, 13g for spices, and the lux trade bug kicks in yet again. Knossos had 3 happy, 1 content, and 2 unhappy before micromaniging. MM'ing, it now has 3 happy and 3 unhappy. This is at 20%, so it's still optimal.
Out of curiosity, we would be MAKING 2gpt at 30% lux! 20% is safe, and we're now making 20gpt! The Spice Traders Guild is in full swing! (let's see if Sulla remembers that one about the STG). I also switched a couple of cities to Med. Inf in preparation for this trade. The coloy will be active in a few turns.
And, this just opened up a whole new set of trades!
Zulus:
IMPORT: WM, 5g, ( Economics OR Navigation )
EXPORT: Chemistry
Germany:
IMPORT: Economics, Navigation
EXPORT: Chemistry, (15gpt, 7g OR Saltpeter)
The Iroquois have iron, which we can get in a trade when we get Navigation. The Aztecs don't have iron (apparently, I missed a trade route, and they did..), AND have some advanced techs. So, we'll do this. Since Economics is pretty much useless right now, we'll go with the Zulu trade.
Zulus - trade for Navigation.
Iroquois - Trade Astro and Banking (they're really behind anyway. At best, it will help to depriciate other tech costs if they catch up) for Iron and 4g.
Now all we have to do is wait for an iron trade to end, and use it as a bargaining chip. This world is one wicked web of iron!
210AD - Turn 8
The Russians & Babs are building Newton's.
After building a market in Delphi, we have an amazing 33gpt! And that's with a tech trade for 2 techs!
230AD - Turn 9
IT: Romans are building Shakespeare's.
Our spices will be online next turn.
250AD - Turn 10
IT: Rome starts Smith Trade. Babylon reaches the Industrial Age! RATS!!!!
I decide to establish an embassy with Babylon, just incase we need it.
We have an extra iron and a spice waiting to be trading once there's an opening. hopefully this will give us enough to pick up on a few techs. I wasn't sure if we should put the 2 coastal tiles from Sparta onto the gold hills. It's growing slowly anyway.. But, we did pick up on some techs, and are 4 away from the Industrial age. The lux slider could be moved down to 10% if we aren't going to trade our only spice (some trades will end soon, and Thermo expands in 13 turns). Since we have an extra iron, we could use that and maybe saltpeter as bargaining chips. The Saltpeter could be sold after we upgrade/build some muskets. We're still at war with Egypt though. We're also strong compared to the Zulus according to F3.
250AD
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Wow, Chieftess; I can see all that Demogame experience is really paying off! Really an excellent turn of trading; there were lots of deals to be made and it looks like you found 'em all! Ha, Spice Trader's Guild too. Yes, I do remember that reference; isn't it from the first Demogame? Very appropriate when used in this context, too. Now I just need to find a way to drop a reference to attachtatuk's Japanese Succession Game, the first SG that either of us ever played...
"Got it", will get it back within 48 hours, hopefully 24.
Really an excellent turn of trading; there were lots of deals to be made and it looks like you found 'em all! Ha, Spice Trader's Guild too. Yes, I do remember that reference; isn't it from the first Demogame? Very appropriate when used in this context, too. Now I just need to find a way to drop a reference to attachtatuk's Japanese Succession Game, the first SG that either of us ever played... "Got it", will get it back within 48 hours, hopefully 24.
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