RBP9 - Old School Deity

Originally posted by Sullla
Wow, Chieftess; I can see all that Demogame experience is really paying off! :D Really an excellent turn of trading; there were lots of deals to be made and it looks like you found 'em all! Ha, Spice Trader's Guild too. Yes, I do remember that reference; isn't it from the first Demogame? Very appropriate when used in this context, too. Now I just need to find a way to drop a reference to attachtatuk's Japanese Succession Game, the first SG that either of us ever played... ;)

"Got it", will get it back within 48 hours, hopefully 24.

yeah, it was DG1. I rememer attachtatuk (didn't someone say it looked like attack a tank?), and that SG. Oh, and then there were the Terps, too.
 
Originally posted by Chieftess


Take it from this college grad. Don't be fooled by your senior year. ;)

Naturally I was referring to having time to play this summer which starts so soon. Good turn Chieftess. :goodjob: No way I would have been cognizant enough to make that many trades with the currently high stress level of finals. Next time through the rotation I should be ready to go. :hammer:
 
Zulus would give us a world map, 1gpt and 22g for Astro.
Germans would give us Economics for Astro.

I'm inclined to go with the Zulu deal, even though it locks us in for 20 turns, since I doubt we'll be using wealth much, if at all. We now have a 10gpt surplus.

NoOoOoOoOoOo! For 42gp we gave up a shot at at least one Zulu city. We need to oscillate minor wars with the Zulu and eventually take them out. That land will do far more good in our hands than the 42gp they paid us to effectively stay at peace another 20 turns. Am I missing something here?

If the game comes back to me early tonight, I should be able to at least play five turns. If not, I'll need to take a pass until Tuesday of next week.
 
Well it took a little longer to play than I thought, but I think the results will speak for themselves...

(0) 250AD Athens is running a huge food surplus; too bad we can't do anything about that, since all of its tiles are already mined. I plan to pop out workers periodically from Athens whenever its growth is maxed out. Since Athens has 0 shields in its box for a bank, I swap it to a worker right now. (Bank is the right call though.) At size 7, Sparta has no need for a cathedral and is swapped to a bank. Sparta's slow growth can be fixed by irrigating some of its grassland tiles; this will also allow us to get its gold hills into play. I will reconfigure it with workers this turn. Thermo not working a bonus grassland tile? I swap it over. Thermo on palace PREBUILD for Forbidden Palace, which we need one more city to be able to build. Note to Chieftess: we have two stacks of 5 workers each clearing jungle. Since jungle takes 24 worker turns to clear, you want to use stacks of 4 or 6 workers to clear it - not 5, since you lose turns to waste. I'll be swapping workers to get groups of 6 on our jungle. Delphi swapped to MDI; if we're going to fight Shaka, we need to make at least some effort to do so. Knossus shouldn't be building non-vet MDI; it gets swapped to a barracks.

Keep in mind that in this game we can build Wall Street when we get 5 banks, NOT stock exchanges; I modded it to that effect to make it more like original Civ3. We'll want to do that as soon as we can.

On the diplomatic front, I first run the map trading game and pull in about 100g. And yes, that is a lot of income. I send the highly outdated Chemistry to Bismarck for Economics; sure, we probably won't be running wealth, but a free tech is a free tech. We need to get Physics so we can see the next brokering opportunity. I think I can pick it up from the Aztecs soon by trading away our saltpeter, but we need a little more income first. Or maybe one of the other slacker civs will pick it up and aid our cause. We'll see. Got to get into the Industrial Age soon though to make use of our freebie tech.

(1) 260AD India completes Shakespeare. India has also jumped into the Industrial Age this turn. Aha! Deal time opens up, and all we have to do is send away the saltpeter we're not using anyway. The big thing good that happened was Japan getting Metallurgy but not Physics. So here we go: Saltpeter + 237g + 3gpt to Aztecs for Physics. Then Physics + WM + 3gpt + 6g to Japan for Metallurgy. Aztecs have TOG but not Magnetism; if only there was some way to pick up Magnetism now! But we are far too short on income for that. And yet... if I really gamble, I think I can get us into the Industrial Age next turn. I am going to set that plan in motion, and see if it works out. A worker is taken off jungle-clearing duty to form a colony on the spices just outside our borders...

(2) 270AD I start the turn by pulling in another 60g via map trades (it's so effective at this point, it almost should be an exploit). Now it's time for the big gamble. Our worker forms a new spice colony in the jungle. This lets us send a spices luxury away for Magnetism. We can't afford that at the moment, but I can but the luxury rate down to 0% temporarily and get us more income. The deal: Spices + 88g + 53gpt to India for Magnetism. Now our actual income is only 26gpt, so we better get something out of this deal! Then Magnetism + 15gpt to the Aztecs for Theory of Gravity. We enter the Industrial Age!!! [dance]

At this point, we have 2g and are making 0gpt - and this with running 0% luxuries, which we cannot do. But we've drawn Medicine as our freebie tech; let's see what that will give us. OMG - NO ONE HAS MEDICINE YET!!! [party] :bday: [party] We've got a MONOPOLY tech on our hands! Wow - we're gonna pull the mother of all Nationalism, errr Medicine, slingshots here.

OK, the AI civs in the Industrial Age are only up Steam Power and Nationalism on us. It's clear that Medicine even at monopoly is not worth both; in fact, we can't get Nationalism even straight-up for Medicine. So I focus with the first trade on getting Steam Power and the maximum possible gold from an AI civ. Joanie has the best price: Medicine to France for Steam Power + WM + 135g + 85gpt. Woohoo, we're rich! :D We've got coal now too, THREE sources actually (2 hoooked up). Not really a surprise when you consider our jungle start, hehe. The Zulus have two more coal sources as well, so we're in prime position to be the world's broker of coal. And it gets better: Babylon, the largest civ on the planet, needs OUR coal! :lol: Now here's a case of a tech being way too overvalued: Babylon won't trade Nationalism even for Medicine @2nd + coal + 88gpt. Your loss Hammurabi! Next I try to pick up Military Tradition and as much gold as possible. India has the best deal: Medicine to India for Military Tradition + 88g + 45gpt. This bankrupts India, btw. Next I pick up some useless optional techs, just in case we should need them: Magnetism + TOG to Rome for Democracy, horses, and some change. And more useless techs to pick up for fun: TOG to Japan for Free Artistry and some change. We now have all Middle Age techs. :) Time to finish selling Medicine for whatever we can get for it. Babylon has best price: Medicine @3rd for 84gpt. Then to Russia: Medicine @4th for 106g + 72gpt. While we're at it, let's end this silly war with Egypt; I give Cleo TOG to make peace. Now that we're at peace with Egypt, we can trade for Egyptian furs; I give away Magnetism to get them. Now we can run 10% lux instead of 20%.

After this monstrous round of trading, we have 371g in the bank, are making 271gpt (!) and are behind only one tech, the obscenely expensive Nationalism. I start swapping workers off of jungle clearing duty to rail our core. 40-turn min science on Nationalism started, using a scientist in Knossus who would have become an entertainer anyway. The game's well and truly afoot now, my friends!

(3) 280AD Russia completes Newton's. I establish embassies with all of the major Industrial powers to better relations and keep our options open. Many cities swapped to workers to help up rail our territory better.

(4) 290AD France completes Smith's, ending the wonder cascade. We're in prime position to land TOE, as soon as factories come along we can rush a factory/coal plant combo and grab the wonder.

(5) 300AD Sparta finishes our first bank. I put it on a cathedral prebuild for a factory.

(6) Industrialization appears among the tech leaders. Normally I would hold off for a brokerage opportunity, but this tech is too important to avoid picking up immediately. I'll pick it up from Hammurabi next turn when I can pay in a flat sum without gpt.

(7) 320AD Caesar's up to some actual money now, so I'll send him Medicine @6th for 40g + 25gpt. I can get Industrialization this turn from Hammurabi for a huge discount, thanks to our coal: the price is only coal + 21gpt + 983g. Sparta swaps to factory. Athens will finish its bank, then cash-rush a factory + coal plant.

(8) 330AD Gandhi's up to a real price on Steam Power, so I send it to him for 80g + 44gpt. Ooh, and Monty can come up with some cash too: Aztecs get Steam Power for 3g + 36gpt.

(9) 340AD Athens finishes its bank; I cash-rush a worker and then a factory at a cost of 1080g.

(10) 350AD Athens cash-rushes a worker/coal plant combo at a cost of 680g. It should go to build Suffrage next, from which we will either get Suffrage itself and kill the cascade or TOE. Either way, we win and secure TOE for ourselves. I send Medicine to Japan this turn @9th (I think) for 30g + 18gpt. That tech has certainly been useful!

Goals for next round should focus on getting Athens either Suffrage or TOE, railing our territory, and continuing to stay among the tech leaders. It's OK to fall behind and wait for a brokerage chance; only the most important techs (like Industrialization) should we buy in at 4th or 5th civ price without being able to swing a deal. Trade maps every turn if you can, we can easily get 30-40 gold extra per turn. Regarding the Zulus, NEW plan is to build factories first, then hit them with cavalry. They don't have anything better than impis in their cities, so... :mwaha:

It was a really fun round, perhaps my best trading sequence ever. Good luck Reagan!

RBP9 350AD
 
We picked up Economics, Physics, Metallurgy, Magnetism, Theory of Gravity, Medicine, Steam Power, Military Tradition, Democracy, Free Artistry, and Industrialization. That's 10 techs overall, 3 of them useless optional techs but 7 very important non-optional ones catapulting us into the Industrial Age. We lack only Nationalism, and are making an obscene amount of money. Take a look:



Reagan said in his last post that he would be away, so now JMB is up. Have some fun, we're in much better shape than before! :D

Sullla
Reagan
JMB <<< UP NOW
Speaker <<< on deck
Chieftess
 
Very nice turn Sulla. :thumbsup:

I've got it, but probably won't be able to get to it until Saturday/Saturday night.

JMB
 
350 AD - We probably don't need to put down another city in that area as our cultural borders will expand in 3 turns (the Zulu's borders may also expand as well, but I don't think an extra fishing village will be particularly useful). Change Thermo's Palace prebuild to a factory (due in 17 turns versus 23...). IBT, Athens completes its coal plant, and peels off a worker. We lose our supply of Dyes.

360 AD - Trade Biz Spices and 4 gpt for his Dyes. Several civs have The Corporation, but there aren't any good brokering options available, so I hold off on making the trade. IBT, we begin Sufferage (15 turns), as do the Indians.

370 AD - The Aztecs can offer their WM, 60 gold and 34 gpt for Industrialization. This value has been going down over the past couple of turns, and Gandhi recently got Industrialization for around the same price, so I make the deal. WRT Sufferage, our main competition should be between France and us.

380 AD - India now has The Corporation, but there are still no good brokering opportunities.

390 AD - Several other civs now have Nationalism, but they still want way too much for it (even brokering Industrialization isn't worth it...). IBT, Babylon declares war on the Indians.

400 AD - With our large income, I switch several cities off of banks and onto factories which I rush. Ok, there is finally a brokering opportunity. I purchase Electricity off of Joanie for 149 gpt and 9 gold. Electricity to Gandhi for the Corporation, his WM, 24 gpt, and 37 gold. Electricity, Industrialization, 6 gpt, and 15 gold to Caesar for Nationalism. Unfortunately, almost everyone else is broke at the moment. Begin one scientist research on Espionage. IBT, Rome begins Sufferage.

410 AD - Not much. Purchase Dyes from Egypt. Communism is now available. IBT, the Zulu and Egypt have signed a military alliance agains Germany. Palace expansion. We lose our supply of iron.

420 AD - Spices to Russia for 147 gold and her WM. Otherwise, not much.

430 AD - Not much. Several civs have Espionage, since we only have 3 turns invested, and TOE should be coming up soon, I change our scientist to a taxman. IBT, the Zulu want a MPP and ROP, no thanks. When I checked earlier this turn, they didn't have Nationalism and couldn't afford it, so I am not sure how they got it...

440 AD - Whew. The Zulu don't actually have Nationalism. We really should start our war with them sometime soon (our Palace prebuild only has 14 turns left. Wow! Russia already has Rep Parts. She is the only one however, so I don't make the trade. IBT, Russia and Babylon sign a military alliance against India. Egypt and Russia sign a military alliance against India.

450 AD - Now France has Rep parts too, and we can purchase it for our WM, 180 gold, and 150 gpt. I think that Rep parts is worth it, but I'll leave it up to Speaker to make the trade. Once we have Rep parts, we should be able to pick up Communism and Espionage as well.

Here's the file: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/RBP9OS450AD.zip

Sullla
Reagan
JMB
Speaker <<< UP NOW
Chieftess <<< on deck

Good luck Speaker! I hope you can play this round... ;)

JMB
 
IT- Things are looking very good in Greece. It's nice to be able to finally play here. The world is much different than the last time I played. I think I'll hold off on paying for Replaceable Parts, hoping to buy Scientific Method before Universal Suffrage is built in Athens. Our defense is very thin at the moment, with one hoplite in most cities. :eek: Let's see if I can fix that. Coal Plant rushed in Sparta at a cost of 320 gold. Cleopatra demands Industrialization. What did Antony see in her? I ultimately decide to give it to her because A) Our military is so weak, B) We do not need a dogpile right now, C)She'll get it soon enough, so it may as well be from us as a gift. She doesn't even go to Cautious from Annoyed. What a meanie. France signs an alliance with Russia against India and we turn down the same alliance.

460AD (1) Gems for 15gpt settles our unhappiness problems. I cancel our spices deal with Babylon and he will not renew it for any meaningful amount of money. Fine Hammy, raise your lux tax. I cancel with France and Joanie will now give 22gpt. I see we have many gpt deals ending next turn. I add them up. We will lose 305gpt! No way we can afford Replaceable Parts and still be able to afford Scientific Method. Or can we? Spices and 140gpt to France for RP. RP to India for 137gpt. Total cost is the 22gpt we could have gotten for the spices and 3 gpt difference for a total of 25gpt. Not too bad. Several of our major cities are in desperate need of improvement. Thermopylae is one of them so I go to work fixing it.

470AD (2) Electricity to Egypt for Furs and Espionage. India is at war with Babylon, France, and Russia, so I make sure to trade saltpeter and spices for only gpt. 28gpt to be exact. Argos and Sparta mmed for growth.

480AD (3) Sci Meth is now available and I buy it from France for 2200 gold. Athens switches to ToE, due next turn without wasting shields in the box. Perfect prebuild guys. :goodjob: Science shifted to Atomic Theory.

490AD (4) ToE grabs Atomic Theory and Electronics. Lyons completes Universal Suffrage. Atomic Theory to Russia for 2624 gold and 230gpt. Atomic Theory to France for Refining and 200 gold. Pretty meager, but what choice do I have? Thermo with prebuild will still take 34 turns for Hoover, so I switch to a Hydro Plant. Hoover due in Athens in 14 turns. Russia will pay 335gpt for Electronics, but I want to give Athens a few more turns headstart for Hoover. Moscow and Kiev both look like they could produce a ton of shields and I don't want to lose Hoover. We have an extra coal, btw, on the mountains next to Pharsalos, but it is not connected. With no one needing it now, I see no need to hook it up. We could have an Iron Works city there, however.....

500AD (5) Mostly Terrain Improvements.

510AD (6) Mostly Terrain Improvements.

520AD (7) Mostly Terrain Improvements.

530AD (8) Germany is destroyed by Egypt. Byebye Otto. Russia will still pay top dollar for Electronics so I continue to hold off. Zulu border expansion takes away one of our spices. We may want to think about taking them out soon.

540AD (9) Russia develops Steel and France has it as well.

550AD (10) Two misclicks send workers onto undeveloped tiles where I do not want them, but no need to reload now.

Conclusion- I have left most of our cities on high food but feel free to adjust if you want. I was using Sparta as the military factory, producing an infantry every other turn. One per city should probably do. I have left the Electronics trading decision up to the next player. If you do trade it, I would recommend getting gpt from Russia and then Steel from France. You should be able to get around 340gpt from Russia. That's a whole lot of money. It might be worth holding onto Electronics for a while longer to see if the AI is insistent on going down the other branch of the tech tree. If you want to do this, I would definitely moniter it each turn and the second the price drops at all, I'd trade it. Good luck Chieftess! Boy is it good to be back. :)

RBP9-550AD

PS- If you want to see something hillariously sad, take a look at our culture rating. That might be the worst I've ever seen.
 
Wow that was quick! Ok, I've got it - and yes, I did take a look at our culture.
 
Nicely done Speaker, about as good as anyone could possibly have hoped.

Sci Meth is now available and I buy it from France for 2200 gold. Athens switches to ToE, due next turn without wasting shields in the box. Perfect prebuild guys.

Well, I don't like to toot my own horn, but... :lol:

Isn't it nice how our the ending of the enormous income from getting our freebie Medicine tech coincided almost exactly with our building of ToE? That's due to good playing from everyone involved. Now if we can just swing the same deal with our free Modern Age tech in another 20 turns...
 
Finally got a chance to open up the game and have a look at it. We need to watch the diplomatic screens VERY closely at this point; Russia and France are the only two civs in competition to get Electronics. If the price to sell to either of them starts to drop, sell Electronics for mega-cash right away. We need to be on this thing as close as possible so we can maintain our huge income for the rest of the game.

For that matter, we're only 5 techs away from entering the Modern Age, and one of them (Steel) is already out there! This game is rapidly nearing its end; as long as we get the UN, we can secure a win. We need to do a couple of things first though to increase our chances of winning. First, rush one of the banks we have in progress right now and build Wall Street! We have four banks and only need one more for the small wonder. Second, build the Intelligence Agency! We're going to need spies in the major AI researchers to conduct tech steals and (if necessary) watch the spaceship's progress. Third, stay away from the tech Sanitation if at all possible. Our cities have major tile overlap and can't get much past size 12 anyway. If the AI civs ignore it and don't ever find their way to hospitals, this is all the more to our benefit. Finally, upgrade our MDIs to guerillas when we get the chance. We actually have a use for guerillas in this game should we get into a conflict with the Zulus! :D

Good luck Chieftess, there isn't all that much time left in this game. If we can win a pre-1000AD UN victory, I will be very happy indeed. (And our culture is indeed beyond pathetic, he he.)

Map:

 
I'm back from Vegas. From what my bleary eyes allow me to read, the game looks stellar. Great job everyone! :goodjob:
 
Ok, now that my family's off the computer, I can actually play 10 turns.
 
It's been five days since the last turn was played and almost three since the last "got it" post (which itself was late). Regrettably, I'm going to have to skip Chieftess this time to keep the game moving. I downloaded the game myself and am playing now.
 
(0) 550AD Good call to build military out of Sparta, but what would be even more useful than infantry is artillery. I swap it over and plan to build an artillery every other turn during my round. Bank rushed in Argos so we can build Wall Street (and the increase in income will pay for itself over time anyway). Cities stuck at size 12 with no happiness problems will run the draft to get us some free military; at the moment, only Sparta qualifies. Our world map is out of date and I trade for a new one, picking up some cash in the process from the other civs. Get Communism from the Aztecs for some backwards techs (Scientific Method and Replaceable Parts). We can get some cash from Japan for sending away Atomic Theory at about 6th or 7th civ prices, so I do: Atomic Theory for 26g, 26gpt, and saltpeter.

(1) 560AD Got to bump the luxury rate up to 20% temporarily to keep our cities happy from their growth. Too bad there are no more foreign luxuries available for purchase. Delphi swaps from a nearly completed stock exchange to Wall Street. Uh oh, suddenly everyone has Sanitation. Not great news for us. We get it completely for free: Communism to our "friend" Shaka for Sanitation. Going to have to start on hospitals once the current crop of builds runs out. Steel has been traded around and greatly devalued too, opening up this deal: Atomic Theory to Rome for Steel. So many people have Atomic Theory now that I have to trade away Electronics or risk losing out on the big payout. So here goes: Electronics to Russia @monopoly for 275gpt. This was actually down from the 305gpt they were offering last turn, so it was clearly time to sell. At the moment no one else can pay anything for the tech, so I hold off on any more deals. There are no techs visible past Steel at this time.

(2) 570AD India and Egypt sign peace (they were fighting?) Zulus declare war on the Indians. Several civs start the Hoover Dam; let's hope that our prebuild was enough to get the wonder. With a 463-shield head start, we should be safe even with the Deity 60% cost factor. Ha, get this: Ephesus' cultural borders expanded, bringing the iron colony near it into our borders and prompting an Iron Works message. :D If this game wasn't moving so fast, we could turn it into one powerhouse city. Delhi was captured this turn, which is bad news for us since India is paying us over 100gpt and we are sending him saltpeter for the next 10 turns. Let's pray that Gandhi holds out until then so our reputation isn't ruined (one feature of Civ3 which is still in need of fixing).

Something really weird happened. I was checking the price of oil with France, and accidentally clicked on the "demand" button. And Joanie GAVE us the oil for free! :crazyeye: She said should France would do so "in the interests of world peace." I guess everyone is afraid of those hoplites and MDI we're packing! :lol:

(3) 580AD Rome declares war on India. It's all over for Gandhi, complete dogpile on him. We're going to get screwed here soon through no fault of our own; good thing the Intelligence Agency can be built now. Our dyes deal has run out and no AI civ is willing to offer more of them (go figure).

(4) 590AD Egyptian dyes become available again, and we pick them up for an outdated tech.

(5) 600AD Gandhi offers us an alliance, which we umm, politely decline. World tech pace continues to stagger as most of the leaders descend into anarchy or communism. France and now Rome, of all civs, look to be the tech frontrunners. Russia has collapsed into anarchy (probably as a result of habving to pay us, ha!) and Babylon has been communist for some time now.

(6) 610AD Routine diplo check, nothing much going on. Now for the surprise move: I honorably declare war on the Zulus and move to take Intombe with a stack of 10 guerillas + 1 infantry. This will get us two more spices to trade away and give us a 12th city to that Thermo can swap to and build the Forbidden Palace. If we do well enough, we may even grab another city too. I just watch the Zulus load most of their offensive forces onto ships to send west to India. It's going to be a slaugher when we throw in the use of our artillery. We grab two workers left exposed in the open and the stack moves next to Intombe - guarded only by impis (ouch!)

(7) 620AD Wall Street completes in Delphi. Our income has gone up to 815gpt, should be enough to get techs even with a stained reputation (should India die). G-Man is down to his last city, so the end can't be far off. Intombe was defended by only a single impi, and it falls to our first guerilla. Guerillas have a very nice attack animation, btw, which I had never seen before. Thermo swaps to the Forbidden Palace, due in 2 turns. Intombe will be hooked up to our rail network next turn.

(8) 630AD Athens completes Hoover's. :) It starts on a stock exchange because our cities in that area are too cramped to grow much beyond size 12; might as well leave the hospital for now to work on a more important project. India has lost all its cities save an island stronghold; our reputation has been stained but apparently not totally destroyed. It's a bit tough to tell since there are still no new techs to show up. We kill about 10 Zulus units without losing any of our own this turn.

(9) 640AD Forbidden Palace completes in Thermo, seriously increasing our civ's total production. We've moved all the way up to #2 in overall productivity on the F11 ranking.

(10) 650AD Tech front continues to stagnate, which is boring but all to the good of our civ. Our stack o' doom moves up next to Ulundi in the heart of Zulu territory. Since I want to see how this turns out, I exercise host privilege and play an extra turn.

(11) 660AD Babylon declares war on Rome; BIG news, those are two of the largest and strongest AI civs. Looks like the whole west continent will soon be communist. Zulus land an impi/horseman pair near us from a boat *ooh, scary*. Four guerillas bite the dust but we capture Ulundi, taking out three rifles in the process. Looks like a major flip risk but I took the city anyway to open up space in the middle of all the jungle. We'll have to decide as a team whether to push the Zulus to extinction or be satisfied with major gains against them.

Notes: Our artillery is in Herakleia in the extreme south, it was there to fire on the units the Zulus landed. We have an attack ready to go against the Zulu island city of Tugela next turn as well. Ulundi should be starved down to size 1 and a library rushed there as soon as possible. There is no movement on the tech front, so we may as well use this time to wipe our island clean of the Zulus and get ready to develop the northern half of it for a possible space race if the UN vote won't go our way. Most of our cities will be coming off of infrastructure soon and can go onto military; for now, infantry and artillery would be the things to build. Don't make any deals with the Aztecs, they look like they could be the next civ to go the way of Germany/India. We want to get Thermo up to size 20 as fast as we can, so we have at least one high-shield (100+) city. Maybe merge some workers into it once the hostpital completes (?) Don't forget that Ephesus can build the Iron Works and could be very strong with some work down the road. Keep watching the diplo screens but don't expect to see much. Even without money from AI civs, we could make 500+ gpt, so we should be set for the game now. It remains only to play it out to the finish. Congrats everyone, I think we can say this game is all but won now. :goodjob:

RBP9 660AD
 
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