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RBtS1b - The Thief Economy

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Swiss Pauli, Aug 3, 2007.

  1. Swiss Pauli

    Swiss Pauli Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,805
    Following in the wake of the brave souls crewing RBtS1a is the B-team. We're taking on the same start, but Aggressive AI is turned off and we're allowed to use the Great Spy bomb. The research restrictions still apply, of course.

    Rivals: 6
    Difficulty: Emperor
    Map: Fractal
    Mapsize: Standard, Cylindrical
    Climate: Temperate
    Water level: Normal
    Starting Era: Ancient
    Speed: Epic
    Victory Conditions: Space only
    Variant
    * All techs with the exception of Ancient Era techs unlocking Worker actions, Writing, and Alphabet (necessary to build spies) must be stolen.

    Leader: Pacal II of Maya
    UU: Holkan - no-metal Spearman
    UB: Ball Court - Colosseum with +2 happiness



    Roster

    Kodii
    pindicator
    sunrise089
    Swiss Pauli
    ungy
     
  2. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Location:
    Lisbon, Portugal
    Lurkers comment

    Just to wish good luck ( like I did to the other team :p ). Make a game supported in a feature not well tested is a bold move...
    I would advice settling in place and Hunting-> AH ->Mining? ( can't remember if Mayan start with it ) ->BW -> Masonry, to chop GW ( in first place that forest hill... ) -> Wheel and Agri
    Note that you have a coastal tile near ( 2 S of the warrior ).

    Ok, good luck! :goodjob:
     
  3. pindicator

    pindicator Chieftain

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    Location:
    Portland, Oregon, USA
    Checking in. :D

    Obviously a lot of trees to chop out a Great Wall, always a plus. Will post later with some more thoughts on strategy.
     
  4. FeedBack

    FeedBack Time for some FeedBack!

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2006
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    Location:
    Sao Paulo, Brazil
    lurker's comment: Lurker checking-in! :thumbsup:

    There's a lot of forest to chop in here! :eek:

    Please, let me know if I can ramble some random thoughts here now and then... :mischief:
     
  5. Swiss Pauli

    Swiss Pauli Chieftain

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    I was running a few test games, and Pacal always seems to get plenty of forest in the capital's BFC.

    @ Feedback - of course you may!
     
  6. Swiss Pauli

    Swiss Pauli Chieftain

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    Opening moves - settle in place, methinks. As religion is verboten, Hunting => AH seems the obvious play. Build wise, I don't see anything for a worker to do
    until AH, so warrior (interruptus?) then worker?

    Opening Strategy - Great Wall rules out a rush: on a test game at normal speed Henge 1800, Wall 1200, and Oracle 975 were all BIFAL. Seems a fairly normal timeline to me. I guess the question is whether or not to build a second city before the Wall. I think we probably don't want to risk doing this, but we shouldn't rule it out yet.

    Long term strategy - as we can only steal techs, we need to find the juiciest target for our spy bomb, and we need to make the most out of that civ while we can. I can see us needing a lot of commerce friendly land when the returns from the bomb start to diminish, so war will come onto the agenda, I'm sure. As such, we might not want to bomb the nearest civ, seeing as we might need its land in fairly short order. In the end, I can see us wanting to reduce our opponents to one civ, in order to focus all our espionage efforts there.
     
  7. Kodii

    Kodii Ka ICE

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    Vancouver, BC
    I guess I'll be playing the initial 20-30 turns.

    If I am not mistaken, this might be one of those starts where all tiles within the BFC are forest tiles except for tiles with resources. That would mean that we have a resource 2E and 2S of the start. I see no reason to move.

    The worker will probably be finished before AH, so I agree that we should begin with an interrupted warrior first.

    Hunting -> AH -> BW (?) -> Masonry (?)

    We already have the prerequisites for Masonry. BW should come first so that the worker can chop chop chop!

    I'll hope for some more comments and then play later today.
     
  8. darrelljs

    darrelljs Immortal

    Joined:
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    Location:
    South Florida
    This is my good luck post, I won't be able to read this thread until our game is complete :).

    Darrell
     
  9. sunrise089

    sunrise089 Not that good

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    Checking in.

    Agree with settle in place, as well as Kodii's tech path.

    I don't know if I agree with Wall before City Two. It depends on how "fair" we want the game to be. If we will give up the SG if we miss the Wall, then we need to build it before the settler. If on the other hand we would simply start over if we miss the Wall then we can do whatever we want.

    By the way - when (if?) we win this game, either us as a group, or a single player should replay the start and build the supposedly required three walls before the Great Wall. A beta tester confirmed to me that the overpowered early Great Spy was specifically discussed, and it was decided that the requirement to build several walls made the tradeoff in slower early expansion make the Spy not so powerful. Of course that feature is broken, so here we are....
     
  10. Kodii

    Kodii Ka ICE

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    I don't think we should take chances to lose the Wall. It doesn't make sense to start over, especially when we're using the same map.
     
  11. sunrise089

    sunrise089 Not that good

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    I agree, but I wanted to make sure. For example in the RB29 games, we obviously didn't replay, but in RBW4 we have restarted.
     
  12. Kodii

    Kodii Ka ICE

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    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    T0 4000BC - Mutal founded

    T3 3925BC - We meet Hatty from the south (Thebes is very close)

    T4 3900BC - We meet Darius I from the west (Persepolis is very close)

    T9 3775BC - Hunting in

    T10 3750BC - We meet Shaka from the west

    T11 3725BC - Buddhism FIADL

    T29 3275BC - AH in, worker finished; We have horses

    Our land is certainly not pretty. There are river-deserts, not floodplains. I guess what we have here is the opposite of isolated. :lol:

    Our initial warrior was killed by a panther. Our second warrior is scouting our east. The worker is building a pasture at the cows. Mutal is producing another warrior. BW is due in 23.





    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96336/RBtS1b_BC-3250.CivBeyondSwordSave
     
  13. pindicator

    pindicator Chieftain

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    Okay, I'm out for a fairwell party for a friend tonight, so I will play my turns tomorrow.

    I've been thinking about our Spy use in this game -- since lightbulbing is out of the question, we are going to want to get as many Great pies as possible. And once the Spy Bomb gets less powerful as the game goes one, Scotland Yard seems the best thing to do with those Spies. +100% EP in a city will be better than any settling of a Spy could do, especially since we'll esentially be replacing our beaker slider with our EP slider.

    In fact, it seems like Spy specialists and Great Spies in particular are just going to jump in place of Scientist specialists and Great Scientists for purposes of this game. We're just swapping beakers for EPs, after all.

    Early candidate for Spy Bomb seems to be Hatty. She always seems to tech along at a nice clip. Still too early to be certain, but remember that the farther away the civ is, the larger the penalty in EPs used.
     
  14. scooter

    scooter Chieftain

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    Lurker mode: on
     
  15. sunrise089

    sunrise089 Not that good

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    I'd heavily consider rushing one or both of those AIs. Cyrus's capital looks close and juicy.
     
  16. Kylearan

    Kylearan compound eye

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    Hi,

    Mmmmh....great pies...yummy!

    Oh no! Here comes the pie bomb! *ducks*

    -Kylearan
     
  17. Swiss Pauli

    Swiss Pauli Chieftain

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    Annoying about those desert riverside tiles. Darius has a super commerce start, he will surely be a tech monster: 2 FPs and a Gold in FIN AI capital :crazyeye: . This would ordinarily make him tempting to rush, but he could be a better target than Hatty for the Pie Bomb (as it shall henceforth be known). Glad that both have powerful UUs that are countered by our own :)

    As we're safe from Barbs, we could pause BW to pick up the Wheel, as our worker might be idling if we go straight to BW, but I'll check th save to confirm this.
     
  18. Swiss Pauli

    Swiss Pauli Chieftain

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    Having checked the save, the worker will idle for fewer turns if we go direct to BW (assuming we start to mine the forest hills) than if we divert to the Wheel.

    Here's some possible cities (I really like the one on the gold):

     
  19. sunrise089

    sunrise089 Not that good

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    Why are we safe from barbs? I still see fog.

    Gold city could grow quickly, and claiming Marble is always nice, but I always hate giving up the actual gold tile. 7-8 commerce early is really nice to be able to work.
     
  20. pindicator

    pindicator Chieftain

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    I keep forgetting what the #2 slot plays for turns. 20? 25?

    Switch technology to the Wheel right away seems best. Wheel will let us get some Chariots out, so it seems like the commonsense move anyway. Then we go BW => Masonry. That's like 51 turns of research at current tech rate, so as we grow it'll go closer to 40.

    So a build order then would be Warrior, Worker (pop 2), Chariot, Settler (pop 3)? Time the settler to when Bronze Working finishes, or shortly thereafter.

    Or maybe we skip BW, and just go Wheel -> Masonry in tech. Instead of Worker #2 we would build a Settler at pop 2.

    Either way I am pretty sure we can fit in a settler before the wall.
     

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