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RBTS6 - Finally Ready for Noble!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Sullla, Apr 10, 2008.

  1. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    I'm glad you enjoyed the last writeup, Sullla. I had fun composing it.

    Some recommendations after another look at the save.

    1) Buy Hannibal's World Map for 5g. He didn't think much of our Economics trade, but that's just because he's too foolish to notice that I backstabbed Wang immediately afterward.

    2) Research Astronomy and whip Galleons off the eastern seaboard. (I think there's a galley in Mound City which will upgrade in-queue to a galleon. Time to rock 'n' roll.

    3) I'd attack Hannibal first. Why, because we're incorrigible backstabbers! No, seriously: While I agree with Sullla that there's really no way we're going to lose this one, I want to make it as easy on ourselves as possible. Only Hannibal is currently at peace. I think we can win by taking Carthaginian, Aztec and Spanish lands in that order.

    3b) Also, Huayna and Isabella both have Divine Right. Maybe one of them will build Versailles for us. (Will it even matter by then though?)

    4) Initial assault tactics: I'm no tactical expert, but I'd probably land at least 4 galleons (half rifles, half trebs) on the marble SW of Thapsus. We can absorb some initial impact, and get a city we can keep. Then, I'd sweep down the coast and grab Carthage after taking at least one more coastal city.

    5) I'd probably keep the coastal cities (trade routes) and Carthage (some food, trade). I guess keep Utica (Mausolleum) and Hadremetum (decent food). I'd raze Kerkouane though. Too much cultural pressure.

    6) I think we should switch to Free Market and Free Religion while we have full galleons sailing over to the other continent. We'll probably have negative income with so many units outside our borders and without the Colossus. Good to pass those turns in anarchy.

    7) I'd probably plan to have at least 500g in reserve when we start our assault. We don't want surprise unit deletions before we hit our stride in the capture/pillage economy over there. So increase research to get Communism sooner. Remember that Cahokia is in a slave revolt this turn. Our actual income is about +20gpt at 100% cash, not -70-something as it appears in the save. State Property will probably come in early in Sullla's turnset.

    Take it away, Zeviz!
     
  2. Zeviz

    Zeviz Prince

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    Our empire is in good shape... Except for the minor problem of having -78gpt at 0% science. Perhaps those slaves have to be :whipped: more to stop these revolts. :p

    Talking about whipping, the whip apparently gives 45 production per population unit. I find this out by pre-whipping some things to overflow into courthouses. I also set up some Galleys to turn into Galleons and whip into Courthouses later.

    Note: AI loves to assign Spy specialists. I had to go through the cities to convert them back to Citizens, because we need production more than espionage.

    It looks like we'll have to spend at least 4 turns getting in position and 2 more turns bombarding Korean cities, so I can spend 2 turns researching Communism at 100%, before finishing Astronomy.

    When capital comes out of revolt, we are at +18gpt at 0%.

    1764AD(2) - A heroic Barbarian Axeman takes our Rifle down to 6/14. In other news, pillaging is greatly delaying our troop movements, but we are able to bombard away most of Seoul's defenses this turn. Research goes back to Astronomy.

    1766AD(3) - Astronomy takes us down from +38gpt to -12gpt at 0%. Hiring 2 scientists at the capital takes Communism research down from 13 to 12 turns. It turns out that research completes before production, as a Galley comes out of Mound City as a Galleon. (I chopped a forest towards it that turn.)

    Rice City is founded, taking us down from -12 to -24 gpt. I also kill Korean LB escorting Settler, getting a free worker.

    1768AD(4) - Izzy loses Madrid and capitulates to HC.

    One of Korean Longbows turns into a Musket, but it dies quickly to an elite Rifle. I also load 3 Rifles onto a Galleon and move it towards Pussan to speed up capture of the final city.

    We now have 2067$ and can get Communism in 5 turns at -260gpt at 100%, so that's what I do.

    1770AD(5) - Several Galleons are being chopped and whipped, so we should be ready for invasion soon. Koreans had a pair of workers converting mine to windmill, while another pair was converting windmills to mines. I free them from this pointless labor by capturing and disbanding both pairs. (We have too many workers already.)

    1772AD(6) - Koreans poison water supply in Wonsan. That's annoying because the same turn:

    We have complete control of our continent.

    Unfortunately I lose a CR rifleman in the process.

    1778AD(9) - Communism is discovered. We get not only GS from Communism, but also Great Merchant in Poverty Point. (This wasn't planned, but is a great coincidence.)

    Our invasion force is also ready:

    In addition to these 5 Galleons, another Galleon of Rifles is 1 turn behind, and two more are coming to pick up our experienced troops. (Note that northern Galleon should pillage the Wale.) I think 8 Galleons is enough, so I've switched all cities to other builds.

    I am stopping now, because we have some decisions to make.

    Notes:

    1. We can kick off either 1 or 2 Golden Ages. We need at least 1 to make civic swap, but might as well make the other one right away. (Or we could use the merchant for cash bomb and wait for another great person for the second Golden Age.) I'd start only 1 GA now and use merchant for cash bomb.

    2. New Civics:
    Nationalism - obvious.
    Communism - obvious.
    Slavery - our favorite production method.
    Representation/US/HR - Representation will become useless with loss of Mercantelism GPs, and we are done with research anyway. HR is the cheapest civic in that column. US would allow us to spend surplus cash. (In case we somehow end up with surplus cash.) I vote for US.
    Theocracy/Free Religion - I think we should stay in Theocracy for XP bonus, but Free Religion is cheaper.

    3. Production - Some cities have several items on ques for whip overflow management. If you don't want to bother with complicated calculations, just whip them as they come up. With control over half the land in the world we should be able to easily overrun everybody else.

    4. Compromise mentioned Globe Theatre in Seoul and started several theaters. I've completed 5 theaters, so we'll be able to whip the Globe if we want. (How much does it cost to whip?)

    5. Have fun conquering the other continent. :)
     

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  3. darrelljs

    darrelljs Immortal

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    The difference between Theocracy/US and Free Religion/HR is only 9 gold/turn, so I think both Theocracy and US are no brainers. Caste System has some attractiveness for Merchants and to avoid more slave revolts, but I think it is too early to make that swap. We stand to save 42 gold/turn with State Property. I would consider gifting HC Economics and bribing him into Free Market, but in then end I don't think it is worth it. I'd probably trigger a GA with the Prophet, use the Merchant for a cash bomb, and save the Spy for a second GA.

    Darrell
     
  4. Sullla

    Sullla Patrician Roman Dictator

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    First of all, nice work Zeviz. :goodjob: It may have taken us a while, but we finally have control of the whole starting continent. I'll try to get some screenies with the flying camera showing our homeland in all its pristine, natural glory.

    I'm thinking along the same lines as darrell in terms of strategy. Going with Zeviz's five points above:

    1) I also plan on burning the Great Prophet on an immediate golden age (for civic swap purposes) and then holding the Spy in reserve for a potential later GA, should we need the commerce/production. The Merchant definitely seems like he should go overseas for a cash infusion.

    2) Not much debate on the civics. The only other tech I can see us wanting is Steel (for cannons) and even that's more of a luxury than a necessity. Universal Suffrage for cash-rushing and Theocracy for XP purposes definitely seem like the way to go.

    3) Aye aye. I'll trust the queue judgement for the most part and concentrate on the warring. ;)

    4) Globe in Seoul? Probably a little late to matter, but sure, why not?

    5) Oh, I plan to. :hammer:
     
  5. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    I guess I did say Globe in Seoul, but that was a while ago and maybe only half serious. (I actually thought I cancelled a bunch of theaters.... Maybe I just bumped them down in priority.) Because of logistics, I think if we do build Globe, it should be on the other continent.

    Or perhaps you meant Forbidden Palace? I did mention that, but I'm not sure if the reduction in maintenance that it offers is just distance maintenance. In which case, with State Property, we don't need it.
     
  6. sooooo

    sooooo Emperor

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    lurker's comment:
    It takes a long while to be able to draft from new cities because you have to wait for your culture to become over 10% in them.
     
  7. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    lurker's comment:
    That only means that they have to kill the previous owner.....

    but in the essential making the Globe in the other side of the sea would take a long time ( conquer, city out of revolt, Theatre , Globe ).
     
  8. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    Yes. And considering our lack of production, the lack of forests left in the world, and how close we are to finishing, I don't see the Globe paying for itself anywhere.
     
  9. Sullla

    Sullla Patrician Roman Dictator

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    I concur that Globe Theatre probably won't pay for itself, but I went ahead and started it at Seoul anyway. :p

    (0) 1778AD Spend the first couple of minutes just looking around, familiarizing myself with the location of units and other changes since the last time I played. We have 34 rifles and 8 galleons - very nice! Kudos on getting all those galleons out so fast (even if it meant brutal whipping of the population in the process, heh).

    First things first: burn that Great Prophet in Cahokia for our first Golden Age, revolting into State Property and Universal Suffrage as planned. Income soars to +124gpt, although admittedly this IS in a golden age. That's plenty of money to use for cash-rushing some fun stuff. I want money (and can't resist picking up cheap tech in trades), so I send Nationalism to Huayna for Divine Right and 420g. That almost covers the cost of the two galleons I rush this turn, in Snaketown and Sakae. We now have 10 galleons, which should be enough to lead a nasty invasion, and then handle the shuttling duty of moving units between continents. I would splurge on some frigates too - but we have a LOT of trebs. A lot (19 of them!)

    (1) 1780AD Moving units around. Uneventful.

    (2) 1782AD Macauley tells us we are the world's most advanced. Uh, thanks. Cash-rush a settler for one of our southern filler cities (Cahokia is building another one). It's my turn, so I can go ahead and found them, and nuts to our economic nay-sayers! ;) (Kidding - State Property makes additional cities fairly inexpensive. And we have more than enough gold + Golden Ages saved up to make financial collapse extremely unlikely.)

    (3) 1784AD Monty declares war on Hannibal, which is great news because we're about to do the same. (Monty = completely crazy, as usual. :crazyeye: ) A look at the rifle force in action, about to make landfall on the western continent:



    (4) 1786AD Sell Hannibal Divine Right for 250g and his world map (see, there WAS a reason to make that tech trade earlier!) Then I declare war on him, hehe. :mischief: We land six muskets and seven trebs against a city that has a musket, mace, longbow, and sword on defense. This is not going to end well for old Hannibal. Splurge on another galleon because, well, we have the money and we can use one.

    (5) 1788AD Bombing city defenses... (does the AI build castles EVERYWHERE? Sheesh.)

    (6) 1790AD Hannibal captures an Aztec city in the south. Well, his army is in the wrong place, because we grab one of his coastal cities for ourselves:



    No losses in taking Leptis. Now here's the big picture strategic plan for taking down Carthage:



    The strong initial force essentially heads inland, along the route outlined in white. This is our strike force moving deep into enemy territory. The second group of reinforcements, in yellow, take the easier coastal route, stay on their ships for faster movement. We can move much faster this way than trying to keep everything in a single uber stack (and we have more than enough forces to form two stacks). I may divide the forces again, if the situation arises and there are enough rifles/trebs to do so.

    (7) 1792AD Quiet turn. Moving forces around.

    (8) 1794AD Get some border expansions up in former Portugal/Korea, domination percentage now over 36%! Nice. Found Ancient Fort, an ice city for Domination purposes in the extreme south.

    (9) 1796AD Between turns, Hannibal tries to attack one of our galleons with a caravel. This predictably achieves nothing other than giving us a few XP. Otherwise, another turn moving. Trebs get in the first turn of bombardment at Utica.

    (10) 1798AD Hannibal counter-attacks with a catapult and knight! Of course this is useless, because the fortified units are healed instantly by our Medic III explorer. Golden Age ends, our income is still 71gpt at 0% science. We're doing just fine, extremely unlikely to run into bankruptcy. Slave revolt in Carthage, haha! :lol:

    Utica falls:



    We killed 9 units, losing none. By the way, Utica had the Mausoleum inside it! :D Hannibal's mobile reserve of units looks to be just about gone at this point. Lots more moving of units.

    (11) 1800AD Captured Hippo, had to sacrifice one treb to get it done. Units can load up on the waiting ships and keep on moving next turn though. Elsewhere, our units are healing up from the attack last turn on Utica. 3 Carthaginian cities taken, 6 more remain (Hannibal captured an Aztec city in the south, remember. Not showing up on our map.) I also goof up moving our Medic III explorer this turn, that's why he's out of position. D'oh!
     

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  10. Sullla

    Sullla Patrician Roman Dictator

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    We are at 38% land area, and will get a few more percentages when our new mainland cities expand borders. Keep pushing Hannibal and then move on to Monty when he croaks!

    Satellite map of our continent in its virgin glory:



    Not a single tile improvement anywhere! The perfect environmentalist dream! (Well, aside from our ruthless lumberjacking, that is... :lol: )

    Bird's eye view looking north from Cahokia over the fair Native American lands:



    Not much else to say, just keep drafting and attacking until we win. Still going to take a little while, but should be fun. :king:
     

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  11. timmy827

    timmy827 King

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    lurker question:
    What would've happened if you had captured the Mausoleum before your Golden Age ended? Do you suddenly get the 5 additional turns in total, or are your remaining turns multiplied by 1.5, or does nothing happen?
     
  12. darrelljs

    darrelljs Immortal

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    Looks like fun :hammer:. That screenshot looking over Cahokia is priceless :lol:. I think the plan Sulla has laid out for me is so simple even I can't screw it up. I'll play 'em in about 18 hours.

    Nothing happens if memory serves. Once you trigger the GA that's it.

    Darrell
     
  13. Zeviz

    Zeviz Prince

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    Very nice screenshots. (And well-played turns.)

    Whom should we attack next? Izzy is now a vassal of HC, so we'll have to attack that pair eventually, and Sulla's plan will leave our troops on HC's border. So should we proceed straight into his territory?
     
  14. darrelljs

    darrelljs Immortal

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    Fellows, I seem to have a rather nasty virus on my machine. It has resisted all efforts to remove, so I am going to have to do a clean re-install. It will take me a few days before I am back up and running so I need a skip or a swap :(.

    Sorry,
    Darrell
     
  15. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    Nice work, Sullla. And nice documentation too. I like the two-pronged attack strategy through Carthaginian lands.

    I tend to think "yes". If we have to fight Capac eventually, we may as well do so early. And we won't have much of a front against him now.

    I expect to run a turnset tomorrow.
     
  16. Sullla

    Sullla Patrician Roman Dictator

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    Ouch! Sorry to hear that darrell. :( I have been bitten by computer issues in the middle of a SG too. We will work you back into the rotation as soon as the problem is fixed.

    I would probably attack Montezuma next, if only because he's the weakest of the remaining opponents. But it doesn't matter all that much. Whatever Compromise and Zeviz come up with should work out fine.
     
  17. Zeviz

    Zeviz Prince

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    Darrell, good luck with fixing your computer. If you are ready before I start to play, feel free to post a "got it".

    Another thing we need to consider is: should we accept Capitulations? I'd say 'yes', because finishing off defeated civs is just time-consuming, rather than challenging. If we are already in cleanup stage, might as well make it go faster (which is what Vassal States were supposedly intended for.)
     
  18. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    I didn't quite make it through Carthage, but we're close.

    I'm quite pressed for time, but don't want to delay the game. So, a bit more of a report later. For now:

    Executive summary:
    We got another General. I fortified him in Seoul where we just whipped the Globe because war weariness was starting to cause starvation.

    We are 1 major and 1 dinky filler city (just founded) from conquering Hannibal. A screenshot should suffice:



    And the save.

    I recommend just pressing into Incan lands to keep the war machine rolling against the biggest first.
     

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  19. Zeviz

    Zeviz Prince

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    Good progress.

    I'll try to play this evening, if I have time. The plan:

    1. Capture the last major city from Carthage.

    2. Accept capitulation and press straight into Incan lands before borders adjust.

    3. See how many Incan cities I can capture in 10 turns.
     
  20. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Deity

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    lurker's comment:
    Is monty still at war with carthage? i'm sure he'd take that filler city. (enless you want a vassal)
     

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