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Real 'Near Future': "Mechs","Super Tanks","Super Soldiers","Space Elevator",Etcetera

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Wade., Jun 5, 2007.

  1. Mewtarthio

    Mewtarthio Emperor

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    Does the spaceship even officially go to Alpha Centauri anymore? I don't recall Apha Centauri itself being mentioned by name.
     
  2. Gaius Octavius

    Gaius Octavius Deity

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    When shooting down satellites is done reliably and routinely, then I'll pay attention. Until then, it is simply a series of tests whose inclusion in the game would be debatable, just like SDI.

    I recently heard a physicist who works at CERN express a great deal of skepticism that fusion power will ever be achieved, so despite much research in that area, its inclusion could also be debated. There are a lot of "ifs" when it comes to the future era, which is probably why they've steered clear of it for the most part.

    My point with the satellite comments was that everybody seems so hellbent on every feature in the game having some sort of counter. I'm sick of it. Let's face it--there are some things in life that just don't have a proper counterbalance. Nuclear weapons are the best example. Even with SAMs, enemy fighters, and a potential SDI system, there are too many ways nuclear weapons could make it through and not be intercepted. I don't want satellites to turn into another feeble ICBM-like feature, where you could just build something new to counteract them 75% of the time. It gets old fast.


    Mewtarthio:
    To my knowledge, the spaceship still goes to Alpha Centauri. Perhaps they've stopped mentioning it because they realized how silly it is. :crazyeye:
     
  3. Chengora

    Chengora Chieftain

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    Reliability and routine? The reason anti-satellite tests were stopped was because of treaty and cooperation, not for lack of capability (although the former would be interesting to mod). The U.S. has more than enough ability to do so: it just doesn't test it. And after all, this thread is talking about stuff that hasn't really been fully developed yet, or even at all (mechs).

    The question is game balance. Nukes don't have a proper counterbalance yet in real life. I'm cool with that, although it does leave open the possibility of SDI (which I'm skeptical of in real life, but that doesn't necessarily bear on the game). But satellites - there are ALREADY counters to them. This can include things like shooting them down (which were being developed 20-30 years ago). And there are simply people hiding, which goes to the stealth question.

    I think satellites are an interesting idea to implement, and I would personally favor some implementation that allows you to see 3x3 or 5x5 areas. But, there are other issues, like what happens to the recon function of fighters? Or can this functionality be modded more effectively by having unmanned drones in the game? If I were a programmer, I would prefer a unit rather than the complicated elements involved in making satellites work in game.

    To bring this back to the thread's question, I would implement the following units:

    1. Parachuting light tanks and artillery, with an additional movement point
    2. Stealth units
    3. Drone recon units, which are cheap, can move fast, reveal stealth, but are particularly vulnerable to anti-aircraft fire
    4. Cruise missiles

    Near-future or current equipment which can redefine how combat takes place in the late game. And everything, with the exception of cruise missiles perhaps, can be done based on the improvements that Firaxis is already implementing.
     
  4. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    As for Satellites being shot down, In my model you would just have Buildings in cities that would automatically have a chance of shooting down enemy satelites each turn.. basically at random. (you might have some Ground/sea units that could do it to, although they might need an order to do it.)
     
  5. Quagga

    Quagga Former Dictator

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    If he's right, future generations will be in for tough times. Fossil fuels won't last forever. They'll be living on hydroelectric, solar (including ethanol) and wind. Probably fission rebounds as an acceptable power source.

    This is a scenario that could be in the future years of the game. Make all oil and coal resources disappear. But in game terms, that is not as dramatic as what will happen in RL.
     
  6. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    mechs do exist or are at least being made check it out on wikipedia,type mech. and power armour like in starship troopers is being made too
     
  7. NYHunter

    NYHunter King

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    It's just a waste. The units add nothing but extra units to build. The only way to make the late game interesting is to add new/expand on current features. Adding mechs and super soldiers doesn't really do anything but make you think "cool..." in your head. So in my opinion there is just no value to it. Besides, it shouldn't be too difficult for someone to modd these units into the epic game, so you will eventually get what you want.
     
  8. Mewtarthio

    Mewtarthio Emperor

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    It appears you're correct. Alpha Centauri is mentioned in the 'pedia entries for "Victory," "Spaceship," and "SS Engine." Oddly enough, the other SS part entries seem to go out of their way to avoid mentioning the destination.

    The Wikipedia article mentions a whole lot of fictitious giant robots o' doom without implying, as far as I can see, that they are currently in the works at all.
     
  9. qwert

    qwert Warlord

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    I liked the satellite sistem of SMAC. Basically you had two tipes of satellite, three economic satellites, one for each resource: hammers, food and gold which provided one point extra of each on every city, and a military satellite.
    The objectives of the military one were two to intercept ICBM and other satellites. Each time a military sat intercepted something, it was lost (it collided with it).
    A civ version could implement a spy sat too, this would be a better option to the actual SDI, mostly because it doesn´t render nukes useles, if you launch more ICBMs than sats they have, those extra ones can get through. This would also be more realistic.
     
  10. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    ok maybe not mechs but power armor is being developed by the u.s army thats for real. sorry about saying mechs are real my bad. but check out power armor on wikipedia.
     
  11. Gaius Octavius

    Gaius Octavius Deity

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    Here's an idea: link satellites with SDI. That way, if you shoot down all of a rival's satellites, you take out part of their SDI capacity. (Not all, since theoretically some would be ground-based missiles.)
     
  12. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    I'm mostly alright with the idea of "speculative" units and technology, as long as they are fairly valid ideas. Essentially, anything that works in the same way the Space Elevator does- theoretically possible, but yet to be implemented- is fine with me. This prevents them throwing in Gundams, but makes near-future infantry valid.
    Mechs are still questionable, though, because they have a strong odour of fan-service about them- as people have said, "mechs are cool", and, although I am in total agreement, but that doesn't make it a good idea for civ. It really depends how they pull it off- if they actually fulfill a useful role in your military, then that's fine, but if they don't then I'd rather they weren't included
     
  13. Edungeon

    Edungeon Flying~

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    military satellites fall in the category of the espionage slider, they are just another tool for spies and the intelligence of the country. Building them like units is not the way to go.

    And we need more units in the future era, because the tech tree in most games end at 1900s, not 2000, so you stay like centuries with the same tanks and mech infa..
     
  14. Glassoid

    Glassoid Chieftain

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    Mechs will be used for military service perhaps not in the traditional Sci Fi sense but perhaps smaller more nimble and transportable mech. Carrying much more firepower than your average soldier assisting conventional forces. It will be the Stop gap between a Tank or IFV. Expect them in the next 15 years when there's an actual capable and practical use for them, also doctrines need to be developed as to how to use them properly.

    It'll be done if it can give the military an edge against Urban Environments and counter insurgent action. Esp when the Major military powers see how urban warfare will become increasingly difficult and regular soldiers are just very vulnerable and Bigger vehicles too clunky to go through streets.

    Mechs are in the future of warfare. Even if it's a slight advantage they'll find an use for them.
     
  15. Grimz101

    Grimz101 King

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6729745.stm
    thats the future :D!
    bear bots!
    first they start out introducing them by, them being used to take out injured soldiers out of combat, then they use them for counter terrorism, then soon they become the fighting force of the army yada yada yada, no1 knows what will happen in future really :p.
    Intresting to note that more money this year was spent on fusion power research then all other renewable researches combined, and yet fusion power is still not making net energy gain! Makes you think what if they waited another 30 years for fusion attempts, and if they just spent all that current money of researching wave power or some crap like that :crazyeye:
     
  16. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    By mechs, do you mean:
    a) Giant 15ft tall robots with heavy cannons and missiles?
    or
    b) Infantry with an exoskeleton-type machine helping it?

    I can't find any possible use for the a) that tanks don't already do, and do well, but b) would be usefull for urban environment. I read somewhere (maybe BBC Focus) that the Americans are developing a sort of mechanical "add-on" to soldiers leg. These are basicaly hydraulic powered metal legs that are attached to the outside of the soldiers legs. This enables the soldier to carry much heavier loads without tyring so quickly, enabling them to have heavy body armour which can stop a rifle bullet but weights 35kg. At the moment, these suits are too heavy for any battlefield situation, but with robot legs, soldiers would be able to wear it and run at the same time.
     
  17. Glassoid

    Glassoid Chieftain

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    People who think there is no use for mechs on a modern battlefield need to understand that when airplanes first were introduced to combat units they were cumbersome,hazardous, and some not very practical. As they went on they found greater uses for the aircraft in combat.

    Same thing is happening with robots now they look like cheap go carts with guns and are sort of just remote controlled rc cars with guns. But as the technology gets perfected ,and cheapened, as it is mass produced.

    Will we see 15ft bi pedal tanks? Who knows!
    But will we see power assisted soldiers in the near future, you bet a monkey flings poo we will!

    Should they leave the Mechs for BTS on the regular game I think it would add something extra. but they would need something to counter it,and it should be expensive to produce,not impossibly expensive but very much so.
     
  18. Mewtarthio

    Mewtarthio Emperor

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    But airplanes have a good, notable reason for use on the battlefield: They can fly out of reach of most firearms. That means the only real counter to the airplane (at least initially) was other airplanes. In short, against an opponent without air superiority, you can perform recon missions with no reprecussions. Later, they figured out how to put bombs on those things, letting them fly over all the enemy defenses and blow up towns.

    Mechs, on the other hand, are expensive, serve no purpose a tank can't perform, and just scream "Blow me up with a missile!"
     
  19. Kissamies

    Kissamies Prince

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    True, vehicles resembling giand bipedal humanoids would not be very practical. Unnecessarily complicated and probably expensive, harder shape to armor than the turreted boxes, being upright would only make it a bigger target most of the time.

    Battlesuits (or power armor or whatever you want to call them) would have some merit as extension of personal armor. They do seem feasible. Also, miniature drone tanks acting as support for infantry might also happen.
     
  20. winddbourne

    winddbourne Prince

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    I'd prefer just slowing down the turns during the industrial age and adding in things that actually don't make an appearance in the game. Give me an expanded age of steam for example, with not just ironclads and paddlewheel boats, but also timberclads.

    And it would be nice to see communications technology having a larger impact. The telegraph and telephone should have a decent impact on "distance from capital" if nothing else.

    Also sanitation was a technology in civilization III, and I'd love to see it return with it's benefits to health. Advances in modern farming were in that game too, with their addtional harvest of food resources.

    And that's just off the top of my head. There is so much there without going into the "future" You could easilly end the game in 2000 and add all those missing turns in earlier. I don't think we'd miss a thing.

    That also saves us from looking back at the game in 50 years and remarking on how "wrong" all the predictions are, plus it adds time to era's that currently seem too short, and not very well fleshed out.

    I'll be disapointed if the modern era remains all bare bones, and we have mechs walking about in 2050. VERY DISAPOINTED. Flesh the modern era out! It's full of useful, fun stuff.
     

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