Real nuclear arsenal mod

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Dec 13, 2004
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Estonia (EU)
Hi,

I have an idea of making nuclear weapons :nuke: more useful and realistic to the game. I miss some parts of nuke system from civ 3 conquest.

1. to modify Manhattan Project so that if anyone in the game builds it, it makes avalible to build Nuclear Weapon test for every other nation. The first builder gets "Gadget" to rush Nuclear Weapon Test or can build it cheaper. Requires uranium.

2. when you or anybody else build Nuclear Weapon Test then you or they are able to build nukes

3. make new nuke types:
a) nuclear bomber (with advanced flight or even new tech)
as i don't have The GameByro Tool to create new units so i just have to
reskin the ordinary bomber or something (The GameByro Tool costs 30%
more than Civ IV :( for me its to expencive :cry: )
b) low range missile or tactical missile
That's harder task, maybe reskin the ICBM and make it tranzportable by
something? (submarine or new transporter can carry one unit etc)

4. if bossible, to make H-bomb (ICBM) what destroys (raze) entire city and
everithing in ground zero (that's because you don't have any protection
against it as just run as far as bossible)

5. Future (if 1-4 is made) mod the game so that if you have an full scale nuclear war then the enviroment freezes (all non desert tiles become snow or even desert tiles) to simulate nuclear winter and cosequences of this. The winter will be for for 15 turns or so. If you can survive that then you can continue to play :D

Any ideas or sugestions how to make it work? :nuke:
 
One idea what came up to me is to mod Manhattan project so that it generates nuclear "know-how" ressource, so you can sell it :cool: similar to Hit Singles or Hit Musicals

Second thought was that when you or somebody else build Manhattan Project then all nations are able to build one new unit "Gadget" what was the first Nuclear Test weapon (Plutonium A-bomb). It shoul act as great people and it can buil Nuclear weapon Test what allows to build nukes. It is similar to Great scientist who can build Academia.

Maybe a nuke test button also :crazyeye: so you can make real test :D

The nuclear "know-how" reduces the cost of "Gadget" :nuke: not half but four times maybe?

About Nuclear Weapon Test it should produce new ressource
"nuke build know-how" what is needed to build nukes. So you can sell it :D to the nations who don't have build the "Gadget" or national wonder Nuclear Weapon Test yet.

The "nuke build know-how" is a good way to make the game so that every nation must have its own nuclear development project or they have to buy the "know-how" for building nukes.

It is simple to create but i don't know about AI, can it handle this?
 
Hi LittleRedPoint, good approach ur taking, i already said something about that in RealismMod-Thread:
BaneBlade said:
This is my first post, so "Hello" to all!
I'm going to try out your Mod right now, even though VanillaCiv is really great imho ur going in the exact direction I want, thanks for your work!
One suggestion i already have:
Lower the sucess-percentage of the SDI and move it further up the techtree. I once read an article about it in an german sciencemag and they made pretty clear that even under the best circumstances (meaning introduction of usable now-SciFI-Goodies like satellitebased Laser/Proton or whatnot killerrays as an addition to the more conventional Anti-missile-missile-technology) the interception-rate against modern ICBMs in an worstcase(east vs west) scenario would simply not matter. I'm sorry but i cant dig up more precise information though i tried for now, maybe one of the native-english-warmongers can help out? Maybe even split ICBM in two versions, early one and improved with multiple warheads, SDI would be far more effective against the first one!?!
Feedback will follow later, by for now,
BaneBlade
Same thema on Apolyton, another Quote of me(Jeez, seems narcistic for sure:rolleyes:) :
First post, so "HI" to you!
I was heavily dissapointed at Nukes when i first used them, but i realised that came from SDI/shelters. Next MP game i did i planned/executed a Nukerush that won me the game(was 3800 to 3100 back if i recall right, enemy on other continent with big lead in spacerace). Got Communism, built Kremlin(-50% hurry production cost), Scotland and 4 spies, inserted them. Built Manhattanproject, in the 13 turns i had to build them dropped science to 10%, Manhattan finished and in the same turn i bought 6 ICBMs, and i think an average of 2-3 per turn for the next 20 turns or so. One nuke against a city/stack without shelters is mostly enough, wipe the rest with Armor/Mech. I indeed conquered all of his cities with 4 MechInfantry!
Edit: I play Universalsuffrage in the endgame, sure u noticed the need for that. Other thing i forgot to say, this is surely a high-risk-strategy, him getting SDI(far to strong gamewise imho and truly far fromreality) would have wasted the whole effort. If he expects it he could possibly simply buyrush shelters in one turn, but for that he must have observed ur techpath closely, got universalsuffrage and a big bankaccount.
 
It seems that to make diferent missiles is easy. Just creat new unit into CIV4UnitInfos.xml file, make diferent skin and add new values like shooting range and nukerange. To make Tactical missile of range 12 spaces and H-Bomb are peace-of-cake. But to create nuclear bomber is harder because new special unit and new event type are needed for this. Changes must be reflected in CvEnums.h Well can't find it, has anybody heard anything about making new event and animation paths? Seems that bombers are out until i can figure out how to make animation path and events.
 
BaneBlade said:
Change your windowssettings so that there are no hidden files, search for file. If u dont find it this way, it's surely packed as *.pak or something.
I would suggest we try to hold the Nukeconversation here. So this was my answer to your,CvEnums.h-problem, now i searched for myself, couldnt find it on any drive, including DVD, and there are no more packed files(*pak or other) in my gamefolder.....:confused:
 
The general question is how to creat new "mission type" and animation loop. As i understand all animations are put together with certain components or effects. All these things are described in xml and to change or update it must reflected in mystic file CvEnums.h . So is described in comment if Civ4MissionInfos.xml .What this means? is it core engine file or what? I scanned files inside, thare are 3 xml files what content must described thare.
 
making a nuclear bomber should be easy. Make a unit identical to the normal bomber but change th <nukeweapon> (or something similar value) in the unitinfo.xml file from -1 to 0 or 1.
 
I would like to see the Manhattan Project become something that each civ has to build. All of the other civs shouldn't benefit from the hard work of one civ.
 
I think CvEnum.h would be a core game file that was compiled with the exe. That looks to be C++ file and I don't see any of those when digging through the game directory. I think you need to wait for the SDK and hopefully that will give us the files we need to edit then.
 
You have the H-Bomb to replace the ICBM, aren't they 2 completely different things? H-Bomb don't just shoot out of the ground and level some one that is 2000 kilmoters away, they are dropped from planes. What you would need is 3 new classes of unit.

Your atomic bomber would be one. And your H-Bomb and Tactical Nuke another. And nuclear capable submarine would be the last one.

You bomber which would have to be a unit that can load a built atomic bomb and drop it like the tactical nuke in Civ 3. The Bomber would act like a gunship that could move over water and land which would leave it open to plausable interception. The speed at which the bomber moves would vary with the generaltion. And at a certain range a bombing mission could be launched.

The Second would be loadable bombs like like the Civ3 Tactical nuke. The range from a target from which the bombing mission could be launched would depend on the generation of pay load. The Distructive power too would vary from generatio to generation.

The last type would be the naval strike unit like it would be like the arial version but only capable of carring missle type pay loads.

Bomber Class

It would act sort of like an air carrier, you could load bombs or base fighters too it. The Fighters would only be able to recon, air supremacy and rebase while attached to the bomber. The number units that make up a squadron would very on the weapon class:

Bomber - 3
Heavy Bomber - 2
Spy/First Strike - 1

It is really more of a visual thing.

1st Generation - B-29 SuperFortress (The Enola Gay was one)
Movement - 3 squares per turn.
Capacity - 3 bomb type pay load or fighter escort only.
Tech: Flight
Resources: Oil
Benefit: Cheap and avaiable
Weapon Class: Bomber

2nd Genration - B-52 Stratofortress (cool ass name)
Movement - 5 Squares per turn.
Capacity - 8 Bomb type pay load or fighter ecort only.
Tech: Flight and Rocketry
Resources: Iron, Oil
Benefit: Huge Cargo load, moderate speed
Weapon Class: Heavy Bomber

2nd Generation - U2
Movement - 6 squares per turn invisible. (unless enemy has rocketry)
Capacity - 0
Tech: Rocketry and Flight
Resources: Oil, Aluminum
Benefit: Long Term Reconissance
Weapon Class: Spy

3rd Generation - B-2 Spirit
Movement - 8 squares per turn invisible (unless enemy has satilites)
Capacity - 4 bomb or rocket or fighter jet escort type payload only.
Tech: Flight, Computers, Rocketry and Composites
Resources: Aluminum, Uranium, Oil
Benefit: Moderate Cargo, fast, toughtest intercept
Weapon Class: First Strike


Pay Load Class

2 distinct types. Bomb Types which only have very short Ranges and can very in power emensely but only have short bombing mission ranges. Or missle types stronger than some bombs but weaker than others the great advantage is that you can launch from further away. The distructive power, think in nuclear terms, it might say low but that is still deadly. Fallout range it double the destructive range.

Bombs

1st Generation - Little boy
Mission range - 1 square all directions
Destructive Power - Low
Destructive Radius - Target Square only
Capacity Occupancy - 1 cargo space
Tech: Flight and Fission
Resources: Uranium, Iron
Benefit: Cheap yet still deadly

1st Generation - Fat Man
Mission Range - 1 square all directions
Destructive Power - Moderate
Destructive Radius - Target Square Only
Capacity Occupancy - 2 cargo spaces
Tech: Flight and Fission
Resources: Uranium, Iron
Benefit: A little more bang for your buck early on.

2nd Generation - H-Bomb
Mission Range - 2 square all directions (if launched by a b-29 the b-29 had a 5% chance of being destroyed)
Destructive Power - High
Destructive Radius - 2 square in every direction of targeted squares
Capacity Occupancy - 2 cargo spaces
Tech: Flight, Fission and Electricity
Resources: Uranium, Iron
Benefit: A real show stopper

3rd Generation - Zeus (Its a real bomb)
Mission Range - 3 square all directions (If launched by a B-52 the B-52 has a 5% chance of beign destroyed)
Destructive Power - Unparallelled
Destructive Radius - 4 Square Surrounding the target square
Capacity Occupancy - 4 cargo spaces
Tech: Flight, Fission and Computers
Resources: Uranium, Aluminum
Benefit: The finger of god.

4th Generation - Bunker Buster
Mission Range - 2 square all directions
Destructive Power - Extreme
Destructive Radius - Only the traget square (fall out only occurs in the square itself)
Capacity Occupancy - 2 cargo spaces
Tech: Satelites, Composites and Computers
Resources: Uranium, Aluminum
Benefit: Consice and vastly effective.

Missels

1st Generation - Nuclear Missle
Mission Range - 4 square all directions
Destructive Power - Moderate
Destructive Radius - Target Square Only
Capacity Occupancy - 1 cargo spaces
Tech: Rocketry, Fission and Electricity
Resources: Uranium, Oil, Iron
Benefit: Long range, powerful and concice

2nd Generation - Tactical Nuke
Mission Range - 8 square all directions
Destructive Power - High
Destructive Radius - 1 square in every direction of teh target square
Capacity Occupancy - 2 cargo spaces
Tech: Rocketry, Fission, Satelites, Computers
Resources: Uranium, Aluminum, Oil
Benefit: Long range, and deadly

3rd Generation - ICBM
Mission Range - infinite square all directions
Destructive Power - Extreme
Destructive Radius - 2 squares in every direction of the target square
Capacity Occupancy - 5 cargo spaces
Tech: Satelites, Compters, Composites, Robotics
Resources: Uranium, Aluminum, Oil
Benefit: Check mate.

Strike Boat Class The strike boad class is made up by submarines wich unlike the bomb and bomber classes could attack other units so they cary an attack power rating on top of capacity.


1st Generation - Nuclear Sub
Movement - 3 squares per turn invisible like any other submarine
Capacity - 8 rocket type payload only
Attack Power: regular sub -5
Tech: Radio, Fission and Combustion
Resources: Iron, Oil
Benefit: Huge Cargo early on


2nd Generation - Strike Boat
Movement - 10 squares per turn invisible like any other submarine
Capacity - 3 rocket type payload only
Attack Power: regular sub +5
Tech: Computers, Fission and Rocketry
Resources: Aluminum, Uranium
Benefit: Fast strong still about to deliver

3nd Generation - Boomer
Movement - 4 squares per turn invisible like any other submarine
Capacity - 40 rocket type or 3 marine payload only, never both
Attack Power: regular sub -2
Tech: Computers, Composites and Satelites
Resources: Aluminum, Uranium
Benefit: The deliverer

The only new structure would be the silo which woud be an upragde of the fort improvement would allow the lauching of missle type nukes from forts. Launching nukes from cities is very unrealistic.

The only new ground unit would be the Freight Truck, which could be loaded up with only 1 nuke at a time regardless of size so that it could be moved from site to site. Movement 2 squares per turn. Avaiable with combustion. Nukes of all types can also move one square a turn on frendly rail roads but many not launch.

Other non nuclear pay loads like air bourne infantry and regular bombs could be added too just to spice it up.

that is my take on an accurate and vastly more expanded nuclear play.
 
Thanks RANMA, i had similar thoughts. Especialy about nuclear warheads what should be special unit - warhead for example. But new mission is needed for this like paratrop. Then it would be cool if rockets have similar ability like bomber, they can load only warhead and drop it any place in its range. But missiles must be one shot weapons. To make missiles is simple but bombers are dificult because you have bomber what flies like missile. try it out by changing the <nukeweapon> value to 1 instead of -1 in Civ4UnitInfo.xml
 
Missiles can be MIRVed to hit the area surrounding the blast radius to damage units and destroy forests, jungles, and any incomplete improvements.
 
Some recommended changes above. The B-52 was used in the era where nuclear bombs were quite mature, so it should not be destroyed when it drops a bomb. The B-29, designed to be a solely conventional aircraft (The Enola Gay actually had to operate with much less gear aboard, including a stripping of the bomb release mechanisms for the racks which would carry conventional warheads) means that it could have easily been destroyed by a nuclear blast.
Also, the H bomb is no different from most nukes. It was only thrust into the scientific limelight because Edward Teller screwed over Oppenheimer because he believed it would really be no different from conventional nuclear bombs. He was right, fusion bombs are really no more powerful than fission bombs.

Also, nuclear weapons take a while to produce. Nuclear bombers should have a limited stockpile of nuclear weapons to be attached (More the B-29 to prevent an early nuke rush, and to simulate the early difficulties in production), but I have no idea of how this could be accomplished ingame.
 
Just to be a pain - the U2 nuclear bomber suggested may not make sense, while it is my understanding that was solely a semi-stealth covert recon aircraft.

Something like the B1 Lancer may be more appropriate...

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/index.html
 
I tred it out by canging in UnitInfos.xml NukeRadius to 2 or 3 its range is then 2 or 3 times larger. So to make very expencive ICBM with 50 Megaton H-bomb it has range 3 and strenght 100 or 150, so nothing can survive that.

I have a roundway idea of making warheads. I have to test it out. The idea is to reduce the size of ICBM and make it special unit warhead. Then mod bombers to carry spezial unit warhead. Then you may be able to unload it to somewhere in range (i don't know is it possibel, i have to test it) and then you just have to press nuke button :D
 
10Seven said:
Just to be a pain - the U2 nuclear bomber suggested may not make sense, while it is my understanding that was solely a semi-stealth covert recon aircraft.

Something like the B1 Lancer may be more appropriate...

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/index.html


If you looked at my stats for the U2 you'll see it has no payload and is only a semisteath long term recon plane.
 
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