Real nuclear arsenal mod

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by LittleRedPoint, Nov 24, 2005.

  1. LittleRedPoint

    LittleRedPoint Slaver

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    Hi,

    I have an idea of making nuclear weapons :nuke: more useful and realistic to the game. I miss some parts of nuke system from civ 3 conquest.

    1. to modify Manhattan Project so that if anyone in the game builds it, it makes avalible to build Nuclear Weapon test for every other nation. The first builder gets "Gadget" to rush Nuclear Weapon Test or can build it cheaper. Requires uranium.

    2. when you or anybody else build Nuclear Weapon Test then you or they are able to build nukes

    3. make new nuke types:
    a) nuclear bomber (with advanced flight or even new tech)
    as i don't have The GameByro Tool to create new units so i just have to
    reskin the ordinary bomber or something (The GameByro Tool costs 30%
    more than Civ IV :( for me its to expencive :cry: )
    b) low range missile or tactical missile
    That's harder task, maybe reskin the ICBM and make it tranzportable by
    something? (submarine or new transporter can carry one unit etc)

    4. if bossible, to make H-bomb (ICBM) what destroys (raze) entire city and
    everithing in ground zero (that's because you don't have any protection
    against it as just run as far as bossible)

    5. Future (if 1-4 is made) mod the game so that if you have an full scale nuclear war then the enviroment freezes (all non desert tiles become snow or even desert tiles) to simulate nuclear winter and cosequences of this. The winter will be for for 15 turns or so. If you can survive that then you can continue to play :D

    Any ideas or sugestions how to make it work? :nuke:
     
  2. Kushan

    Kushan Warlord

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    Remove the UN resolution preventing construction of Nukes?

    Kushan
     
  3. LittleRedPoint

    LittleRedPoint Slaver

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    One idea what came up to me is to mod Manhattan project so that it generates nuclear "know-how" ressource, so you can sell it :cool: similar to Hit Singles or Hit Musicals

    Second thought was that when you or somebody else build Manhattan Project then all nations are able to build one new unit "Gadget" what was the first Nuclear Test weapon (Plutonium A-bomb). It shoul act as great people and it can buil Nuclear weapon Test what allows to build nukes. It is similar to Great scientist who can build Academia.

    Maybe a nuke test button also :crazyeye: so you can make real test :D

    The nuclear "know-how" reduces the cost of "Gadget" :nuke: not half but four times maybe?

    About Nuclear Weapon Test it should produce new ressource
    "nuke build know-how" what is needed to build nukes. So you can sell it :D to the nations who don't have build the "Gadget" or national wonder Nuclear Weapon Test yet.

    The "nuke build know-how" is a good way to make the game so that every nation must have its own nuclear development project or they have to buy the "know-how" for building nukes.

    It is simple to create but i don't know about AI, can it handle this?
     
  4. BaneBlade

    BaneBlade Prince

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    Hi LittleRedPoint, good approach ur taking, i already said something about that in RealismMod-Thread:
    Same thema on Apolyton, another Quote of me(Jeez, seems narcistic for sure:rolleyes:) :
    First post, so "HI" to you!
    I was heavily dissapointed at Nukes when i first used them, but i realised that came from SDI/shelters. Next MP game i did i planned/executed a Nukerush that won me the game(was 3800 to 3100 back if i recall right, enemy on other continent with big lead in spacerace). Got Communism, built Kremlin(-50% hurry production cost), Scotland and 4 spies, inserted them. Built Manhattanproject, in the 13 turns i had to build them dropped science to 10%, Manhattan finished and in the same turn i bought 6 ICBMs, and i think an average of 2-3 per turn for the next 20 turns or so. One nuke against a city/stack without shelters is mostly enough, wipe the rest with Armor/Mech. I indeed conquered all of his cities with 4 MechInfantry!
    Edit: I play Universalsuffrage in the endgame, sure u noticed the need for that. Other thing i forgot to say, this is surely a high-risk-strategy, him getting SDI(far to strong gamewise imho and truly far fromreality) would have wasted the whole effort. If he expects it he could possibly simply buyrush shelters in one turn, but for that he must have observed ur techpath closely, got universalsuffrage and a big bankaccount.
     
  5. LittleRedPoint

    LittleRedPoint Slaver

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    It seems that to make diferent missiles is easy. Just creat new unit into CIV4UnitInfos.xml file, make diferent skin and add new values like shooting range and nukerange. To make Tactical missile of range 12 spaces and H-Bomb are peace-of-cake. But to create nuclear bomber is harder because new special unit and new event type are needed for this. Changes must be reflected in CvEnums.h Well can't find it, has anybody heard anything about making new event and animation paths? Seems that bombers are out until i can figure out how to make animation path and events.
     
  6. BaneBlade

    BaneBlade Prince

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    I would suggest we try to hold the Nukeconversation here. So this was my answer to your,CvEnums.h-problem, now i searched for myself, couldnt find it on any drive, including DVD, and there are no more packed files(*pak or other) in my gamefolder.....:confused:
     
  7. LittleRedPoint

    LittleRedPoint Slaver

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    The general question is how to creat new "mission type" and animation loop. As i understand all animations are put together with certain components or effects. All these things are described in xml and to change or update it must reflected in mystic file CvEnums.h . So is described in comment if Civ4MissionInfos.xml .What this means? is it core engine file or what? I scanned files inside, thare are 3 xml files what content must described thare.
     
  8. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    making a nuclear bomber should be easy. Make a unit identical to the normal bomber but change th <nukeweapon> (or something similar value) in the unitinfo.xml file from -1 to 0 or 1.
     
  9. BaneBlade

    BaneBlade Prince

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    Beginning to collect other related Threads here: It's getting unnerving never to know where to look/ where i have written a special text.
    Idea: Nukes and MAD
     
  10. Ranos

    Ranos King

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    I would like to see the Manhattan Project become something that each civ has to build. All of the other civs shouldn't benefit from the hard work of one civ.
     
  11. Bezurn

    Bezurn Prince

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    I think CvEnum.h would be a core game file that was compiled with the exe. That looks to be C++ file and I don't see any of those when digging through the game directory. I think you need to wait for the SDK and hopefully that will give us the files we need to edit then.
     
  12. R-A-N-M-A

    R-A-N-M-A Chieftain

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    You have the H-Bomb to replace the ICBM, aren't they 2 completely different things? H-Bomb don't just shoot out of the ground and level some one that is 2000 kilmoters away, they are dropped from planes. What you would need is 3 new classes of unit.

    Your atomic bomber would be one. And your H-Bomb and Tactical Nuke another. And nuclear capable submarine would be the last one.

    You bomber which would have to be a unit that can load a built atomic bomb and drop it like the tactical nuke in Civ 3. The Bomber would act like a gunship that could move over water and land which would leave it open to plausable interception. The speed at which the bomber moves would vary with the generaltion. And at a certain range a bombing mission could be launched.

    The Second would be loadable bombs like like the Civ3 Tactical nuke. The range from a target from which the bombing mission could be launched would depend on the generation of pay load. The Distructive power too would vary from generatio to generation.

    The last type would be the naval strike unit like it would be like the arial version but only capable of carring missle type pay loads.

    Bomber Class

    It would act sort of like an air carrier, you could load bombs or base fighters too it. The Fighters would only be able to recon, air supremacy and rebase while attached to the bomber. The number units that make up a squadron would very on the weapon class:

    Bomber - 3
    Heavy Bomber - 2
    Spy/First Strike - 1

    It is really more of a visual thing.

    1st Generation - B-29 SuperFortress (The Enola Gay was one)
    Movement - 3 squares per turn.
    Capacity - 3 bomb type pay load or fighter escort only.
    Tech: Flight
    Resources: Oil
    Benefit: Cheap and avaiable
    Weapon Class: Bomber

    2nd Genration - B-52 Stratofortress (cool ass name)
    Movement - 5 Squares per turn.
    Capacity - 8 Bomb type pay load or fighter ecort only.
    Tech: Flight and Rocketry
    Resources: Iron, Oil
    Benefit: Huge Cargo load, moderate speed
    Weapon Class: Heavy Bomber

    2nd Generation - U2
    Movement - 6 squares per turn invisible. (unless enemy has rocketry)
    Capacity - 0
    Tech: Rocketry and Flight
    Resources: Oil, Aluminum
    Benefit: Long Term Reconissance
    Weapon Class: Spy

    3rd Generation - B-2 Spirit
    Movement - 8 squares per turn invisible (unless enemy has satilites)
    Capacity - 4 bomb or rocket or fighter jet escort type payload only.
    Tech: Flight, Computers, Rocketry and Composites
    Resources: Aluminum, Uranium, Oil
    Benefit: Moderate Cargo, fast, toughtest intercept
    Weapon Class: First Strike


    Pay Load Class

    2 distinct types. Bomb Types which only have very short Ranges and can very in power emensely but only have short bombing mission ranges. Or missle types stronger than some bombs but weaker than others the great advantage is that you can launch from further away. The distructive power, think in nuclear terms, it might say low but that is still deadly. Fallout range it double the destructive range.

    Bombs

    1st Generation - Little boy
    Mission range - 1 square all directions
    Destructive Power - Low
    Destructive Radius - Target Square only
    Capacity Occupancy - 1 cargo space
    Tech: Flight and Fission
    Resources: Uranium, Iron
    Benefit: Cheap yet still deadly

    1st Generation - Fat Man
    Mission Range - 1 square all directions
    Destructive Power - Moderate
    Destructive Radius - Target Square Only
    Capacity Occupancy - 2 cargo spaces
    Tech: Flight and Fission
    Resources: Uranium, Iron
    Benefit: A little more bang for your buck early on.

    2nd Generation - H-Bomb
    Mission Range - 2 square all directions (if launched by a b-29 the b-29 had a 5% chance of being destroyed)
    Destructive Power - High
    Destructive Radius - 2 square in every direction of targeted squares
    Capacity Occupancy - 2 cargo spaces
    Tech: Flight, Fission and Electricity
    Resources: Uranium, Iron
    Benefit: A real show stopper

    3rd Generation - Zeus (Its a real bomb)
    Mission Range - 3 square all directions (If launched by a B-52 the B-52 has a 5% chance of beign destroyed)
    Destructive Power - Unparallelled
    Destructive Radius - 4 Square Surrounding the target square
    Capacity Occupancy - 4 cargo spaces
    Tech: Flight, Fission and Computers
    Resources: Uranium, Aluminum
    Benefit: The finger of god.

    4th Generation - Bunker Buster
    Mission Range - 2 square all directions
    Destructive Power - Extreme
    Destructive Radius - Only the traget square (fall out only occurs in the square itself)
    Capacity Occupancy - 2 cargo spaces
    Tech: Satelites, Composites and Computers
    Resources: Uranium, Aluminum
    Benefit: Consice and vastly effective.

    Missels

    1st Generation - Nuclear Missle
    Mission Range - 4 square all directions
    Destructive Power - Moderate
    Destructive Radius - Target Square Only
    Capacity Occupancy - 1 cargo spaces
    Tech: Rocketry, Fission and Electricity
    Resources: Uranium, Oil, Iron
    Benefit: Long range, powerful and concice

    2nd Generation - Tactical Nuke
    Mission Range - 8 square all directions
    Destructive Power - High
    Destructive Radius - 1 square in every direction of teh target square
    Capacity Occupancy - 2 cargo spaces
    Tech: Rocketry, Fission, Satelites, Computers
    Resources: Uranium, Aluminum, Oil
    Benefit: Long range, and deadly

    3rd Generation - ICBM
    Mission Range - infinite square all directions
    Destructive Power - Extreme
    Destructive Radius - 2 squares in every direction of the target square
    Capacity Occupancy - 5 cargo spaces
    Tech: Satelites, Compters, Composites, Robotics
    Resources: Uranium, Aluminum, Oil
    Benefit: Check mate.

    Strike Boat Class The strike boad class is made up by submarines wich unlike the bomb and bomber classes could attack other units so they cary an attack power rating on top of capacity.


    1st Generation - Nuclear Sub
    Movement - 3 squares per turn invisible like any other submarine
    Capacity - 8 rocket type payload only
    Attack Power: regular sub -5
    Tech: Radio, Fission and Combustion
    Resources: Iron, Oil
    Benefit: Huge Cargo early on


    2nd Generation - Strike Boat
    Movement - 10 squares per turn invisible like any other submarine
    Capacity - 3 rocket type payload only
    Attack Power: regular sub +5
    Tech: Computers, Fission and Rocketry
    Resources: Aluminum, Uranium
    Benefit: Fast strong still about to deliver

    3nd Generation - Boomer
    Movement - 4 squares per turn invisible like any other submarine
    Capacity - 40 rocket type or 3 marine payload only, never both
    Attack Power: regular sub -2
    Tech: Computers, Composites and Satelites
    Resources: Aluminum, Uranium
    Benefit: The deliverer

    The only new structure would be the silo which woud be an upragde of the fort improvement would allow the lauching of missle type nukes from forts. Launching nukes from cities is very unrealistic.

    The only new ground unit would be the Freight Truck, which could be loaded up with only 1 nuke at a time regardless of size so that it could be moved from site to site. Movement 2 squares per turn. Avaiable with combustion. Nukes of all types can also move one square a turn on frendly rail roads but many not launch.

    Other non nuclear pay loads like air bourne infantry and regular bombs could be added too just to spice it up.

    that is my take on an accurate and vastly more expanded nuclear play.
     
  13. LittleRedPoint

    LittleRedPoint Slaver

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    Thanks RANMA, i had similar thoughts. Especialy about nuclear warheads what should be special unit - warhead for example. But new mission is needed for this like paratrop. Then it would be cool if rockets have similar ability like bomber, they can load only warhead and drop it any place in its range. But missiles must be one shot weapons. To make missiles is simple but bombers are dificult because you have bomber what flies like missile. try it out by changing the <nukeweapon> value to 1 instead of -1 in Civ4UnitInfo.xml
     
  14. Vaiks

    Vaiks Chieftain

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    But isn't possible, for a quick fix, just to increase the power of the ICBM editing some XML file? Sorry if I am wrong...
     
  15. Blazer6

    Blazer6 King

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    Missiles can be MIRVed to hit the area surrounding the blast radius to damage units and destroy forests, jungles, and any incomplete improvements.
     
  16. MSpencer

    MSpencer Chieftain

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    Some recommended changes above. The B-52 was used in the era where nuclear bombs were quite mature, so it should not be destroyed when it drops a bomb. The B-29, designed to be a solely conventional aircraft (The Enola Gay actually had to operate with much less gear aboard, including a stripping of the bomb release mechanisms for the racks which would carry conventional warheads) means that it could have easily been destroyed by a nuclear blast.
    Also, the H bomb is no different from most nukes. It was only thrust into the scientific limelight because Edward Teller screwed over Oppenheimer because he believed it would really be no different from conventional nuclear bombs. He was right, fusion bombs are really no more powerful than fission bombs.

    Also, nuclear weapons take a while to produce. Nuclear bombers should have a limited stockpile of nuclear weapons to be attached (More the B-29 to prevent an early nuke rush, and to simulate the early difficulties in production), but I have no idea of how this could be accomplished ingame.
     
  17. TheFourGuardian

    TheFourGuardian Chieftain

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    Hmm, is it possible to have the Bunker Buster do moderate damage but ignore Shelter bonuses to the city?
     
  18. 10Seven

    10Seven Intolerant of Intolerance

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    Just to be a pain - the U2 nuclear bomber suggested may not make sense, while it is my understanding that was solely a semi-stealth covert recon aircraft.

    Something like the B1 Lancer may be more appropriate...

    http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/index.html
     
  19. LittleRedPoint

    LittleRedPoint Slaver

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    I tred it out by canging in UnitInfos.xml NukeRadius to 2 or 3 its range is then 2 or 3 times larger. So to make very expencive ICBM with 50 Megaton H-bomb it has range 3 and strenght 100 or 150, so nothing can survive that.

    I have a roundway idea of making warheads. I have to test it out. The idea is to reduce the size of ICBM and make it special unit warhead. Then mod bombers to carry spezial unit warhead. Then you may be able to unload it to somewhere in range (i don't know is it possibel, i have to test it) and then you just have to press nuke button :D
     
  20. R-A-N-M-A

    R-A-N-M-A Chieftain

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    If you looked at my stats for the U2 you'll see it has no payload and is only a semisteath long term recon plane.
     

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